Did Mike Keenan Destory what Could've been a superteam? Or was the situation doomed no matter what?
- Thread starter CJZizzari
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To my recollection Tambellini was really just a placeholder with no real clout (eventually Stephen Bellringer kind of filled the void with no hockey background) – Keenan absolutely was the driving force behind the McLean/Gélinas move. At no point did he formally hold any title other than head coach, although there was a period where the team explicitly acknowledged that, essentially, no one had better authority in terms of personnel moves. But he was pulling those strings more or less from day one. Hell, it was practically his M.O. to immediately isolate fan favorites, and the writing was on the wall for Linden very quickly.
Ew, still respect Burke? Just cant do it, despite acknowledging that he's clearly in the top 3 GMs in franchise history. He's just such a blowhard now, and a caricature of himself. No arguing that the best era in franchise history doesn't happen without Burke.
As for Keenan, such a piece of crap. It was a good move trading for Bert obviously, but that doesn't make up for his character flaws. Who was it that, iirc, was told by Keenan he'd be playing one night, so the player had his parents come for the game, only for Keenan to make him a last minute healthy scratch? So glad that era of coaches constantly berating snd trying to mind f×ck players is dead.
- Jan 23, 2010
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It was definitely Enrico Ciccone in that trade, not Huscroft. I can remember driving home on a Friday night hearing about the trade.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Weird how that works - I remember I was sitting in my Dad’s car at a Mr. Lube station getting an oil change when they said on CKNW that we had acquired Jesse Belanger and Markus Naslund at the trade deadline.
On Ciccone - we acquired him from Carolina in the McLean/Gelinas trade, and then I believe he was traded for Huscroft a short while later.
That was when Keenan was coach/GM of the Blues. The player was Dale Hawerchuk and it was his grandparents, I believe.
- Jan 23, 2010
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Yeah, there are a few trades I remember hearing on the radio. Then I would sit around all day waiting for Sports Talk to talk about the trade.
Totally different time.
Got a mixed bag with Keenan.
Could call him brutally honest. Looked at at a team, dumped any sentimentality and did what he thought had to be done to win. Sometimes, however, became too callous and showed zero consideration for players. Maybe a little like Jon Taffer on "Bar Rescue". If we've got to break bar stools to get things moving, then so be it.
Team he inherited in Vancouver had to be dynamited and Keenan was well on the way to doing that when he got turfed. Team was going nowhere with the remnants of the heroes of '94 and needed absolutely fundamental changes. Getting rid of Linden, Babych, MacLean, Odjick etc... was necessary but often seemed carried out with needless hostility. Lot of old time Canuck fans couldn't ever forgive him for losing favorite players or treating them like he did.
Still Keenan seemed on his way to structuring a way ahead for the team. He did start to lay the basis for the better future for the team. And you could say, in the end, that most moves were the correct ones.
Has to be remembered that his tenure was a short one and he never had time to really complete any sort of rebuild and fans never got a chance to see if his rebuild would have successful. As it was the team did improve and the players brought in by Keenan were important to that.
Also the whole Keenan episode raises the question as to whether fans just want to feel good about supporting players they like and can relate to or whether they simply see the players as means to winning and are pretty much indifferent to their feelings. Like should the Sedins have been moved years ago when it became obvious that a rebuild was necessary (and trading them could have been of critical importance to any rebuild), or should they have been left to retire as Canucks so we could all feel good about that?
Could call him brutally honest. Looked at at a team, dumped any sentimentality and did what he thought had to be done to win. Sometimes, however, became too callous and showed zero consideration for players. Maybe a little like Jon Taffer on "Bar Rescue". If we've got to break bar stools to get things moving, then so be it.
Team he inherited in Vancouver had to be dynamited and Keenan was well on the way to doing that when he got turfed. Team was going nowhere with the remnants of the heroes of '94 and needed absolutely fundamental changes. Getting rid of Linden, Babych, MacLean, Odjick etc... was necessary but often seemed carried out with needless hostility. Lot of old time Canuck fans couldn't ever forgive him for losing favorite players or treating them like he did.
Still Keenan seemed on his way to structuring a way ahead for the team. He did start to lay the basis for the better future for the team. And you could say, in the end, that most moves were the correct ones.
Has to be remembered that his tenure was a short one and he never had time to really complete any sort of rebuild and fans never got a chance to see if his rebuild would have successful. As it was the team did improve and the players brought in by Keenan were important to that.
Also the whole Keenan episode raises the question as to whether fans just want to feel good about supporting players they like and can relate to or whether they simply see the players as means to winning and are pretty much indifferent to their feelings. Like should the Sedins have been moved years ago when it became obvious that a rebuild was necessary (and trading them could have been of critical importance to any rebuild), or should they have been left to retire as Canucks so we could all feel good about that?
Derp Kassian
Registered User
A great team Vancouver missed out on is keeping Larionov, still getting Bure and drafting Jagr over Nedved in like 90 or 91 or whatever
Jagr Larionov Bure (greatest euro line ever)
Adams Ronning Linden
Courtnall whoever Sandlak
Jagr Larionov Bure (greatest euro line ever)
Adams Ronning Linden
Courtnall whoever Sandlak
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I just noticed that your avatar gif accounts for both the 1978-92 and 1992-97 skate-era color combinations and wholeheartedly applaud you for making the distinction.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
I *think* the reasons for the Professor not staying in Vancouver wasn’t the fault of management but rather Larionov not wishing the Russian hockey Federation from taking a huge chunk of his salary, so he chose to play overseas.
Keenan didn't destroy anything. The team was doomed no matter what. The team clearly need it some type of rebuild. Quinn ( rip ) drafting was horrible, his strategy bigger the better, drafted so many big players with no skill. Canucks didn't have that many young players. Even with Messier, Bure, Linden and Mogilny this team had many holes. No pp qb, not much toughness ON D, D was slow, Murzyn was always slow but that 1998 season, he was extra slow, McLean wasn't the
same goaltender after all the knee surgery and the Brown thing.
The bad drafting finally caught up, I think if Canucks won the cup in 1994, it might of been a record of having the least drafted players play in the playoffs. I believe only Bure, Linden and Antoski were the only drafted Canuucks that played in the playoffs. Slegr and Plavsic were on the team but never played.
same goaltender after all the knee surgery and the Brown thing.
The bad drafting finally caught up, I think if Canucks won the cup in 1994, it might of been a record of having the least drafted players play in the playoffs. I believe only Bure, Linden and Antoski were the only drafted Canuucks that played in the playoffs. Slegr and Plavsic were on the team but never played.
That Keenan-era team needed a rebuild. That offseason we added the corpse of Mark Messier and all of his toxic ego to a team that missed the playoffs the previous year. For his trades, we certainly remember the Linden deal, but he also aggressively shipped out any semblance of a team for a whole lot of nothing. I suppose he scorched the earth to allow room for the players of a very good farm system to come up, but the actual team building moves that got us to a consistent playoff team were made by Burke.
The bolded is the key. Moving them for the sake of it isn't the same as getting the pieces that set us up for 2 decades like the Linden deal.
The bolded is the key. Moving them for the sake of it isn't the same as getting the pieces that set us up for 2 decades like the Linden deal.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
These types of threads are the best ones to read on the entire website and I love lurking in these and the History of Hockey.
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I find it hard to separate Keenan from Messier. I hate Messier so much that whatever things Keenan did pales in comparison. In fact, Messier basically brought Keenan onto the team, and whatever Keenan did I blame on Messier. In conclusion, I absolutely despise Messier. 
xtra
Registered User
Anyone else remember in his canuck career (looks it up) of 13 games then playing when the moon hits your eye when he did something. Good lord I remember that.
Also he’s now a politician for the plq
MNA profile: Meet Enrico Ciccone – Quebec Liberal Party
Also he’s now a politician for the plq
MNA profile: Meet Enrico Ciccone – Quebec Liberal Party
Keenan made Naslund a healthy scratched the first 2 games in 1998 season. He was almost traded but Mogilny got hurt and Naslund got his chance. Canucks got lucky, if No Naslund, no WCE era and the rebuild Would of been over after the lookout when the Sedins finally took their game to another level.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I believe the story on the Naslund deal was that Keenan had a trade worked out to send Naslund to Ottawa for a 4th round pick, but Bertuzzi broke his leg which caused Keenan to back out of it.
Ehhhh ... I really don't like defending Keenan and it was a terrible, dark period for the franchise but the notion that he traded multiple quality veterans for bad returns is just false. Literally the only guy we moved who we would have wanted back in any way even a year later was Gelinas. And Sean Burke ... but he was acquired by Tambellini/Keenan in the first place. Guys like Babych, Ledyard, McLean, Odjick were basically done and it was a clearing-out of dead wood that needed to happen.
Without Keenan, Naslund also probably never breaks out the way he did.
It's odd that he gets such a reputation as a veterans coach because there were a few he liked and dragged around with him, because everywhere he went one of the first things he did was put young players on the rise in key positions with massive minutes and saw huge breakouts from them. Scatchard and Ohlund also benefitted hugely when he came in. And Bertuzzi, obviously.
Again, the guy was a despicable person and I don't like defending him, but he was around for so long because there were some things he did very well.
It's amazing how history repeats itself with the Canucks. Iron Mike Keenan was deemed to be the disciplinarian needed in the late 90's to run this team of random stars and get them on the same page. Obviously didn't take.
Fast forward more than a decade, and the Canucks were in the same place. Sedins in their prime and the guts of the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals team and the President's Trophy winners still intact. But they'd gone soft. So the decision was made to hire Torts to crack the whip.
Same kind of coaches but similar results. So I suppose by 2022 when the Canucks are competitive again, they'll go out searching for another drill sergeant to run the bench.
Fast forward more than a decade, and the Canucks were in the same place. Sedins in their prime and the guts of the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals team and the President's Trophy winners still intact. But they'd gone soft. So the decision was made to hire Torts to crack the whip.
Same kind of coaches but similar results. So I suppose by 2022 when the Canucks are competitive again, they'll go out searching for another drill sergeant to run the bench.
nowhereman
Registered User
I have a family friend who played for Keenan during his time with the Canucks and he's an even worse human being then the publicized stories would tell you. Just an absolute slimeball. But, yes, he does have the Linden trade that deserves a lot of kudos in hindsight.
It's a footnote when it all comes down to it, but I always liked Geoff Sanderson from his Hartford days and was annoyed when Keenan quickly re-swapped him for toughness in Brad May. The Burke-Snow shuffle was also weird, although Snow carved out a brief, OK career with Vancouver all things considered.
I was also baffled at why they just released Irbe, after he put up a winning record with respectable stats on a really sad-sack team.
