Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part I

[Bleedred]

My only concern with DeBoer is that he expects players to be able to pick up his systems on their own.
We have a bunch of young guys who have only ever played in Ruff's wacky system. Are they going to be able to transition easily?

Having bad flashbacks of DeBoer running the most complicated system in the league and calling his players stupid for not being able to play it.

I don't remember him ever calling anybody stupid for not being able to play his system?

 

[My3Sons]

Clarke and Foote? As opposed to Sharangovich, Zetterlund Boqvist?

In 2023 Marino missed 18 games nobody noticed. Severson slotted in seamlessly.

Tatar played all 82 in 2023

Sharangovich played 75 games

Boqvist 70 games

Zetterlund 45 but had 20 points in those
45 games

Wood played 76 games and had 13 goals

We don't have anything like that today.

Dougie goes down and you're replacing him with a 19 year old with Zero games of NHL experience and we are going to sit here and make believe that it was the injury and not the depth? Gimme a break.

You complain about the team being soft and you want to bring back Shara and Boquist and Tatar? You sometimes go on too long and contradict yourself. Like the post yesterday or the day before where you gave Tkachuk credit for a 30 goal pace. Or earlier posts where you stated that health would be the biggest help to getting the team at least back to where it had been. As an aside, I'm sure they could return Boquist and Tatar pretty easily if they wanted to. If the team hadn't broken and if McLeod wasn't involved with the scandal the depth wouldn't have been as sorely tested. If they were in the playoffs Toffoli would still be with NJ and nobody would be talking about Shara. Toffoli would have had just as many goals if not more in my view. This was just one of those seasons where everything went wrong. But yes, I'd prefer prospects rounding out the fourth line and be pressed into service over the dead end guys.

 

[JimEIV]

You complain about the team being soft and you want to bring back Shara and Boquist and Tatar? You sometimes go on too long and contradict yourself. Like the post yesterday or the day before where you gave Tkachuk credit for a 30 goal pace. Or earlier posts where you stated that health would be the biggest help to getting the team at least back to where it had been. As an aside, I'm sure they could return Boquist and Tatar pretty easily if they wanted to. If the team hadn't broken and if McLeod wasn't involved with the scandal the depth wouldn't have been as sorely tested. If they were in the playoffs Toffoli would still be with NJ and nobody would be talking about Shara. Toffoli would have had just as many goals if not more in my view. This was just one of those seasons where everything went wrong. But yes, I'd prefer prospects rounding out the fourth line and be pressed into service over the dead end guys.

You're mistaken on a lot...

I gave credit for a 25 goal pace when he had 17 in a season of only 56 games due to covid. It's not a pace because he missed time....it was a pace due to the pandemic. He actually has had 3 30 goal seasons in a row.


Next you think Tierney, Nosek Lazar play a tougher game than Wood, Sharangovich, Zetterlund? You're nuts. The later 3 would run over our entire bottom 6 today.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

why are we talking about Zetterlund? He was traded like 14 months ago. It isn't like they let him walk in the offseason or something. I love the player too, but lets relax.

Miles Wood got a ridiculous contract. I am super happy he is not here on that contract, and you should be too.

Sharangovich was healthy scratched in the playoffs, and was replaced (this year) with a player who scored at like a 35 goal pace in NJ. Again, why are we pining for this player?

 

[None Shall Pass]

I'll entertain the argument that we lost depth at D, because we did. Losing Severson and Graves did hurt that, but it's something that needed to be done to make cap work, get Luke (And eventually Nemec) into the NHL, and Graves is buns anyway. Colin Miller was a fine 3RD option and a shrewd get, you can blame Lindy and Co for overusing Smith in his stead.

The forward depth thing is silly, though. Zetterlund turned in to Meier, who is better in every single way. Rango turned into Toffoli, who is also better. Boqvist is nothing, his absence is only glaring because we don't have enough centers. Wood got overpaid, goodbye. McLeod got booted from the league. Bastian got hurt. Lazar and Nosek are perfectly fine-to-good bottom of the lineup guys.

Really the forward depth would have looked better if Mercer didn't have a crap season and Holtz was bit more of...something.

 

[JimEIV]

I'll entertain the argument that we lost depth at D, because we did. Losing Severson and Graves did hurt that, but it's something that needed to be done to make cap work, get Luke (And eventually Nemec) into the NHL, and Graves is buns anyway. Colin Miller was a fine 3RD option and a shrewd get, you can blame Lindy and Co for overusing Smith in his stead.

The forward depth thing is silly, though. Zetterlund turned in to Meier, who is better in every single way. Rango turned into Toffoli, who is also better. Boqvist is nothing, his absence is only glaring because we don't have enough centers. Wood got overpaid, goodbye. McLeod got booted from the league. Bastian got hurt. Lazar and Nosek are perfectly fine-to-good bottom of the lineup guys.

Really the forward depth would have looked better if Mercer didn't have a crap season and Holtz was bit more of...something.

Meier had 3 more goals and 8 total points more than Zetterlund this season. Regardless of the reasons that's how it turned out in the first year of an 8 year 70.4 million dollar contract.

Toffoli is not better than Sharangovich. Sharangovich is bigger, faster, younger, cheaper and they both scored at the same rate this season- they both scored exactly 22 Even Strength goals. What is Toffoli better at? Defensively? Sharangovich was an excellent PKer this season also.

Nosek is garbage. No redeeming qualities at all. Boqvist was whatever too but he was miles better than Nosek. Neither one of them are physical but one has tons more skill than the other.

Lazer isn't bad, he's a good replacement but in the context of the amount of speed, size and grit we lost with players like Wood , McLeod, Zetterlund and yes Sharangovich Lazar is subpar in every category compared to those players.

 

[Saugus]

I’m willing to give Meier a pass for this season. Not only was the guy playing on two bum legs and a strained oblique for half the season, but Ruff consistently played him on his off wing on the third line and in the wrong spot on the PP.

As soon as he got healthy and Ruff was out of the picture, Meier went on a tear. I think that’s closer to what we can expect from the next few years, rather than the mid season slumping Meier.

 

[Goptor]

I don't remember him ever calling anybody stupid for not being able to play his system?

Never directly called them stupid but he implied that the players need to go back to the AHL to learn how to play hockey. He also constantly said the players were doing the wrong things and he expects NHLers to be able to do what he said.

Of course this is the same guy who said with a straight face that he plays the best players available an hour before dressing a 41 year old Brodeur over Schneider.

 

[NJDevs26]

I’m willing to give Meier a pass for this season. Not only was the guy playing on two bum legs and a strained oblique for half the season, but Ruff consistently played him on his off wing on the third line and in the wrong spot on the PP.

As soon as he got healthy and Ruff was out of the picture, Meier went on a tear. I think that’s closer to what we can expect from the next few years, rather than the mid season slumping Meier.

The 'Timo got hot when Lindy got fired' narrative is another too convenient meme that isn't quite true. Dude had three goals and three assists in Lindy's last five games here and his icetime was ticking up too. He got hot when he got healthy-ish, I'm sure the other stuff helped but it's not the whole reason.

 

[GameSeven]

Never directly called them stupid but he implied that the players need to go back to the AHL to learn how to play hockey. He also constantly said the players were doing the wrong things and he expects NHLers to be able to do what he said.

Of course this is the same guy who said with a straight face that he plays the best players available an hour before dressing a 41 year old Brodeur over Schneider.

 

[Guttersniped]

Joshua is going to get a comparable contract to Mason Marchment a few years ago (4x4.5) at a minimum would be my guess.

Joshua will likely get an overly generous deal but Marchment had a bigger breakout season when he was a year younger.

Spoiler: Their production

Marchment
2021-22 (26 yo)
54 GP 18G 29A 47 pts
0.33 G/GP 0.54 A/GP 0.87 pts/GP
1.42 G/60 2.28 A/60 3.70 pts/60
5v5
54 GP 15G 25A 40 pts
0.28 G/GP 0.46 A/GP 0.74 pts/GP
1.28 G/60 2.14 A/60 3.42 pts/60

Joshua
2022-23 (26 yo)
79 GP 11G 12A 23 pts
0.14 G/GP 0.15 A/GP 0.29 pts/GP
0.73 G/60 0.79 A/60 1.52 pts/60
5v5
79 GP 9G 11A 20 pts
0.11 G/GP 0.14 A/GP 0.25 pts/GP
0.67 G/60 0.81 A/60 1.48 pts/60

2023-24 (27 yo)
63 GP 18G 14A 32 pts
0.29 G/GP 0.22 A/GP 0.51 pts/GP
1.19 G/60 0.93 A/60 2.12 pts/60
5v5
63 GP 14G 13A 27 pts
0.22 G/GP 0.21 A/GP 0.43 pts/GP
1.13 G/60 1.04 A/60 2.17 pts/60

From April 3, 2024 article
The Canucks media guy, who sometimes talks out of his ass, has him getting more than 3m.

“If the Canucks thought they were getting Joshua on the twos, it’s not going to happen,” said Rick Dhaliwal, the man with the most extensive rolodex of player agents in Vancouver. “Joshua has given his agent, Rich Evans, a ton of ammunition for contract talks. He will get over $3 million, folks, on July 1…Everyone is looking for a guy with that size, soft hands, kills penalties, sticks up for teammates — what’s there not to like?”

And

When AFP Analytics ran their contract projections back in January, they came back with a projection for Joshua of a three-year deal with a cap hit of approximately $3 million. Their analysis tagged five comparable players for Joshua who signed new contracts as UFAs: 2014-15 Matt Beleskey, 2018-19 Brett Connolly, 2017-18 Antoine Roussel, 2021-22 Alexander Barabanov, and 2015-16 Chris Stewart.

Spoiler: Let’s look at these five comparable players:

Matt Beleskey: BOS 5 years/ 3.8m in 2015-16
Yikes.
First season: 37 pts in 80 games.
The rest: 19 NHL games & then the AHL.
BOS dumped him on NYR at 50% retained in the Rick Nash trade at the 2018 TDL.

Brett Connolly: FLA 4 years/3.5m in 2019-20
Yikes.
First season: 33 pts in 69 games.
The rest: 30 NHL games over the next two years before ending up in the AHL.
Last year of the deal was bought out.

Antoine Roussel: VAN 4 years/3m in 2018-19
Also bad.
First Season: 29 pts in 65 games.
The rest: Missed a few months w/ knee surgery the 2nd year and then completely fell off a cliff in the 3rd.
Was part of the group cap dump for OEL in July 2021.

Chris Stewart: MIN 2 years/1.15m in 2016–17
Whatever.
First year: 72 games the first year.
Second: 47 games, waived & picked up by CGY for 7 games.

Alexander Barabanov: SJS 2 years/2.5m
Ok.
first year: 47 pts in 68 games
second year: 13 pts in 46 games, lot of injuries.

The lesson here is generous deals with a lot of term for bottom six UFAs coming off career years not only end in tears, they’re bad after about a year. They’re sucker bets.

 

[Goptor]

If DeBoer has improved on his communication skills then I'd be fine with him coming back. This team does need a guy who knows how to create systems and make adjustments when needed.

 

[devilsblood]

I’m willing to give Meier a pass for this season. Not only was the guy playing on two bum legs and a strained oblique for half the season, but Ruff consistently played him on his off wing on the third line and in the wrong spot on the PP.

As soon as he got healthy and Ruff was out of the picture, Meier went on a tear. I think that’s closer to what we can expect from the next few years, rather than the mid season slumping Meier.

My one concern with Timo is that is a lot of injuries. Can you expect a run of good health after that?

I do give him credit for battling through

 

[GameSeven]

If DeBoer has improved on his communication skills then I'd be fine with him coming back. This team does need a guy who knows how to create systems and make adjustments when needed.

Not the point I was contesting...

 

[JimEIV]

Meier was excellent from the LA game to the end of the year....but it was only 22 games...in those 22 games he had 16 goals and 25 points getting 19:28 ATOI.

Timo Meier Gamelogs for Games 520 to 541
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
22 16 9 25 -4 25 9 7 0 2 6 3 0 76 21.1 510 428:21 19:28

But if we're honest the season was over by the time he got hot. We had just lost 7 of 9 games when he started getting going...from game 60 to 68 Anaheim game to Vegas.... it's hard to be excited about that for me.

 

[Goptor]

Not the point I was contesting...

Well you can't include a "DeBoer said" comment without a disclaimer that half the time he was coaching here, he didn't even know what he was saying.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Meier was excellent from the LA game to the end of the year....but it was only 22 games...in those 22 games he had 16 goals and 25 points getting 19:28 ATOI.

Timo Meier Gamelogs for Games 520 to 541
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
22 16 9 25 -4 25 9 7 0 2 6 3 0 76 21.1 510 428:21 19:28

But if we're honest the season was over by the time he got hot. We had just lost 7 of 9 games when he started getting going...from game 60 to 68 Anaheim game to Vegas.... it's hard to be excited about that for me.

I just will never for the life of me understand this thinking. Those games still count. The fact that Meier looked as good as he did should be nothing but a HUGE positive, but alas...........

The team was playing half an AHL lineup, how many games did you expect to win down the stretch?

 

[JimEIV]

My one concern with Timo is that is a lot of injuries. Can you expect a run of good health after that?

I do give him credit for battling through

He wasn't all that impressive when he first got here and the injury excuse was used then....

I used the excuse...I figured 9 goals and 14 points in 21 games coming off of injury wasn't terrible.

But then a lackluster playoffs and then this year

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"lackluster playoffs"

Here are Timo Meier's ranks at 5 on 5 among forwards in the playoffs with at least 100 minutes (96 qualifying):

CF% 18th
shots/60: 3rd
iHDCF/60: 1st
HDCF/60: 1st
xGF/60: 4th

 

[Guttersniped]

To be honest, I don't think they care at all. If Quenneville gets cleared by NHL (looking that way) I think he'll be equally considered as the other candidates. His resume speaks for itself

I really doubt Quenneville ever get cleared by the NHL.

If it happens then he can be debated as a candidate.

 

[JimEIV]

If we do in fact end up with the #10 pick in this draft we should trade down to #12 and get McLeod's replacement.

 

[Rhodes 81]

The Boqvist thing is what makes me sad. Maybe hindsight, but he's very strong defensively, versatile, and plays with speed. He brings very little offensively but he could have been a great presence to solidify our 4th line this year, and we just gave up on him because we were scared of the arb number. I feel like that was the biggest whiff for Fitz this offseason.

 

[MadDevil]

Hey guys, what's going on today...oh...

 

[BurntToast]

I feel like Fitz was arrogant last summer and got burned. In what world dose a playoff team start 2 low-exp defenseman (Luke and Bahl)? In what world do you not try to pick up a journeyman when Miller got hurt in camp? Or when Dougie got hurt?

F*#k competing for a position on the team. Other issues:

1. There was some serious favoritism for Luke. PP1 over Dougie? Didn’t get called out like others. Very little competition in camp.

2. Lindy is gone..why did the Devils struggle to play 60 minuets?

3. Why can’t the Devils win more than 3 games.

4. Home wins?! Nope.

5. Back to Backs?! Mostly No.

6. Guys were seriously injured. They let them play through it, but they never managed it. In the past coaches may give an injured star player the 3rd period off in a game when they are losing or the would play them down the lineup. Have Jack start on the 4th line. Limit the player.

It was a complete gone show this year. If you blame the coach, I blame Fitz for not firing Lindy sooner.

Many of you guys see a year with poor goalies, injuries and a bad coach. At least the Devils were still in it, better luck next year.

I see a year where they were still in it but the GM bumbled it away with slow and terrible decision making.

Fitz: “hit the gym more you injured weaklings”

 

[Billdo]

Meier was excellent from the LA game to the end of the year....but it was only 22 games...in those 22 games he had 16 goals and 25 points getting 19:28 ATOI.

Timo Meier Gamelogs for Games 520 to 541
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
22 16 9 25 -4 25 9 7 0 2 6 3 0 76 21.1 510 428:21 19:28

But if we're honest the season was over by the time he got hot. We had just lost 7 of 9 games when he started getting going...from game 60 to 68 Anaheim game to Vegas.... it's hard to be excited about that for me.

no shit.