GDT: Devils @ Hurricanes 7PM, MSGSN - Dano Loves You

[Devs3cups]

I'm watching the full replay cause I fell asleep during the game, first full Devils game I missed in 15 years as a fan. They've broken me lol

Yup, I know the feeling lmao.

 

[Unknown Caller]

I think Graves isn’t very good and has sucked this year. And I’m glad we moved on. BUT the Graves-Marino pairing was outstanding and handled incredibly difficult minutes very well.

Maybe during the regular season, but Graves was absolutely atrocious in the playoffs. He was in the running with Bahl for the worst defenseman on the team. He couldn't break the puck out of the zone against Carolina to save his life.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Graves has a track record of being shit in the playoffs, not sure what this fanbase was expecting there. They got him on their timeline where they needed capable bodies on the blue line.

 

[Blackjack]

I agree that he's not good but that pairing last year was pretty damn good especially on the PK

I think Graves isn’t very good and has sucked this year. And I’m glad we moved on. BUT the Graves-Marino pairing was outstanding and handled incredibly difficult minutes very well.

Early season yes, but I’d argue that was mostly Marino playing amazing hockey and Graves was always terrible.

Maybe during the regular season, but Graves was absolutely atrocious in the playoffs. He was in the running with Bahl for the worst defenseman on the team. He couldn't break the puck out of the zone against Carolina to save his life.

He was terrible to finish the season and carried it through the playoffs. There’s a reason there were no tears shed when he left.

In any case, calling him rock solid is an absolute joke.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Maybe during the regular season, but Graves was absolutely atrocious in the playoffs. He was in the running with Bahl for the worst defenseman on the team. He couldn't break the puck out of the zone against Carolina to save his life.

So was Tatar. He was also an important reason why we got there.

Again, not saying I wanted Graves back. But the pairing was absolutely outstanding given the usage.

Early season yes, but I’d argue that was mostly Marino playing amazing hockey and Graves was always terrible.





He was terrible to finish the season and carried it through the playoffs. There’s a reason there were no tears shed when he left.

In any case, calling him rock solid is an absolute joke.

He was almost certainly injured.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

If it was Marino carrying Graves, why has he looked like utter ass this year? Graves-Marino were good together, it's not the biggest crime in the world to admit that. And yes, he was ass in the playoffs. Once again, he sucks in the playoffs back to his Colorado days and one of the reasons why Avs fans said he was traded for such little return. It's also not shocking they went on to win a cup without him on the backend and more steadier guys like Josh Manson coming in. No one's arguing that the Devils miss Ryan Graves's contract because they had a suitable ELC replacement in Luke Hughes ready to make the jump and outdid him in the Carolina series but to just dismiss Graves for last year is borderline asinine. @Blackjack Tried quoting but this site sucks

 

[Triumph]

Graves is a +13 in the playoffs, I am enjoying all this 'Graves is bad in the playoffs' talk. He probably missed one or two coverages on a penalty kill and now it's just a meme.

EDIT: nailed it, he was on for 10 PP goals against in 2019-20

He was quite bad here last year in the playoffs but he did miss games due to injury and seemed very limited physically.

 

[JimEIV]

2023
Graves 78 Games +34 - 51.1 CF%
Siegenthaler 80 Games +27 52.2 CF%
Hamilton 82 Games +23 55.3 CF%
Marino 64 Games +21 52 CF%
Severson 81 Games +9 56.5 CF%
Smith 60 Games +3 54.5 CF%
Bahl 42 Games +4 54.2 CF%

2024
L.Hughes 50 Games -11 56.5 CF%
Marino 50 Games -9 51.5 CF%
Bahl 50 games +0 47.5 CF%
Siegenthaler 38 Games -1 53.4 CF%
Smith 34 Games +2 50.5 CF%
Colin Miller 30 Games +9 55.6 CF%
Nemec 29 Games -6 51.7 CF%
Hamilton 20 Games -8 58.9 CF%

 

[JimEIV]

2023 Top 4 D +105

2024 Top 4 D -21

Probably Vitek's fault.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Graves is a +13 in the playoffs, I am enjoying all this 'Graves is bad in the playoffs' talk. He probably missed one or two coverages on a penalty kill and now it's just a meme.

EDIT: nailed it, he was on for 10 PP goals against in 2019-20

He was quite bad here last year in the playoffs but he did miss games due to injury and seemed very limited physically.

It's between this, the Rangers series when he looked like Kreider's puppet on the PK + Carolina series. He's shockingly bad in the playoffs, man.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Is there any better proof that everything last year went right than the fact that Ryan Graves appeared “rock solid” defensively?

I’m not saying he’s bad. But not a single person was expecting him to be that kind of player at that kind of level defensively when he was signed. And indeed he wasn’t before last year, and he hasn’t been this year.

 

[JimEIV]

Is there any better proof that everything last year went right than the fact that Ryan Graves appeared “rock solid” defensively?

I’m not saying he’s bad. But not a single person was expecting him to be that kind of player at that kind of level defensively when he was signed. And indeed he wasn’t before last year, and he hasn’t been this year.

Partners and deployment play a significant role.

 

[Triumph]

It's between this, the Rangers series when he looked like Kreider's puppet on the PK + Carolina series. He's shockingly bad in the playoffs, man.

You mean trying to get back on his proper side on D and his partner not switching? Sure.

I really don't believe in 'bad in the playoffs' is somehow different than bad in the regular season. People like to find trends and believe that they're real. Graves was hurt last year, that's certainly part of why he was bad.

 

[Guttersniped]

Graves is a +13 in the playoffs, I am enjoying all this 'Graves is bad in the playoffs' talk. He probably missed one or two coverages on a penalty kill and now it's just a meme.

EDIT: nailed it, he was on for 10 PP goals against in 2019-20

He was quite bad here last year in the playoffs but he did miss games due to injury and seemed very limited physically.

The Marino/Graves pair was misused at the start of the Rangers series. They had gotten so used to throwing them out to kill penalties that they valued having them out over fresh legs and that got us got burned on the PK. One adjustment they made that led to winning was they stopped doing that.

Graves also got worse in the playoffs after he was injured.

No one said “Graves carried Marino”, I said that pair handled harder minutes better because it did. I look at pair stats because that tells you what’s actually happening and what’s working.

We had three pairs we relied on last season: Siegs/Dougie, Graves/Marino and Severson/anyone.

This season early on the Siegs/Dougie pair was our best when we lost it. Marino couldn’t carry Bahl when that pair was getting insane minutes and Smith/Hughes was pretty bad in easy minutes. That happened and cost us.

Unlike forwards, Ruff has a tendency to then leave defense pairings alone for better or worse.

Marino/Bahl were way better than Nemec/Bahl though, so no, Marino doesn’t suck. We’ve used him in one the most demanding shutdown defenseman roles in the NHL because the Hamilton pair is for offense and the other pairs are more sheltered.

Bahl did quite well with Miller and Smith this year, so he’s actually fine in 3rd pair role.

 

[Guttersniped]

Partners and deployment play a significant role.

It’s mostly what I look at with defensemen.

 

[Guttersniped]

So was Tatar. He was also an important reason why we got there.

Again, not saying I wanted Graves back. But the pairing was absolutely outstanding given the usage.


He was almost certainly injured.

Yeah, I wouldn’t want that Graves contract.

I went into the season knowing the defense would be kind of a mess and it’s kind of a mess.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I agree but why are they waiting until game 50 to tweak the system when they have been outmanned and out gunned all year. Yet ruff still had them trying to play 80’s oiler hockey

That’s just stupidity

Did we tweak the system or just do a better job of executing it ?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You mean trying to get back on his proper side on D and his partner not switching? Sure.

I really don't believe in 'bad in the playoffs' is somehow different than bad in the regular season. People like to find trends and believe that they're real. Graves was hurt last year, that's certainly part of why he was bad.

Lmao, ok you win. Guy shot the puck twice into shins and it's somehow his partner's fault there.

Yeah, I wouldn’t want that Graves contract.

I went into the season knowing the defense would be kind of a mess and it’s kind of a mess.

I think my biggest issue was how fast could the kids get up to speed, I wouldn't have doubted they looked the part by mid year but they blew past my expectations early on. The biggest issue defensively is the veterans just deciding to nosedive from where they were all playing at last year's level.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yeah, I wouldn’t want that Graves contract.

I went into the season knowing the defense would be kind of a mess and it’s kind of a mess.

It hasn’t been pretty but I would say they’re doing better than I would’ve guessed if you told me we’re losing our whole 1st pairing for basically the whole season. I thought Nemec was close to ready for the NHL, but I did not see him being this good with this big of a role.

This season is just weird. So much disappointment and frustration but then you take a step back and look at the pieces that are there and it’s hard to be that mad.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Saw the rest of that game on replay. As for the individual game, they played really well but lack of finishing killed them especially on the PP + OT. Really liked what I saw defensively for the first time this year with a consistent effort to clear the front. Bigger picture, it's probably moral victories at this point but maybe, just maybe they can take a soft schedule to town this week. They play like this and they should smoke every team they're facing

 

[Bleedred]

Saw the rest of that game on replay. As for the individual game, they played really well but lack of finishing killed them especially on the PP + OT. Really liked what I saw defensively for the first time this year with a consistent effort to clear the front. Bigger picture, it's probably moral victories at this point but maybe, just maybe they can take a soft schedule to town this week. They play like this and they should smoke every team they're facing

It’s a great time to smoke a bunch of mediocre teams this week.

And Seattle and Nashville are nothing more than mediocre teams at the very best.

LA is a good team, particularly post-McLellan they should be. I still believe the Flyers are a mediocre team masquerading as a good one.

We need to beat these teams. I have no faith we’ll come out and not have the usual home ice stinker to a non-playoff shit team tomorrow night. Or the usual second half back to back loss if we do beat Seattle to restore faith for a night.

 

[Bleedred]

Vitek does at least have this nice stat going for him.

This is regular season only, not playoffs, but Vitek had stopped 74 straight shots against the Hurricanes in his last 3 regular season games against them before getting scored on by the 75th shot.

It may even have went 80+ shots, as he was beaten at 17:34 of the 2nd period in his second to last regular season game against them last year, so I'm assuming he probably stopped the last possibly 7 or 10 shots of that game?

The shutout streak lasted almost 8 periods and maybe even over 9 with that fourth to last game in January of last year?

But he had the 32 save shutout last March, stopped all 11 in relief a couple of weeks ago before the break, then stopped the first 31 last night.

 

[HoliksGhost]

I’ll be at the game Monday night… I’ll have my GM hat on

 

[billingtons ghost]

What on earth are you talking about? Graves was awful, if you go back to last season we complained about him plenty. Siegs struggled significantly the second half of last season too.

Graves is a big guy who skates really well for his size and can provide some offense, that's pretty much it. He's brutal on the defensive side.

"Rock solid" Good god man.

You could not be more wrong.

He had a better stick cutting passes, he was better on the corners and tying up players in front of the net than any defenseman we have this year. He was better positionally. He had long arms and a big body and skated well. The reason for Marino's success is that Graves could tie players up and Marino had time to look up ice.

The guy is perennially amongst the tops on the league in goal differential.

Yeah, dopes who don't understand how to play defense in the NHL complained alot, and Graves had his share of mistakes but he played against top lines every night and was our best PKer.

You obviously know more than any coaching staff.

It was more about the fit with Marino than anything

 

[billingtons ghost]

Say what you want guys. Graves 's game was the perfect compliment to Marino's. He does everything well that Marino can't do.

That isn't to say he's a great all round defenseman. But if you want to have a guy to do the heavy lifting around the net and in the corners and free a guy with good offensive instincts up to look up ice, he's your guy.

It's not Marino carrying him bc Marino isn't going to be Marino again until Bahl rounds out his game.

Marino would actually fare better with Miller or Smith as a complement. Not that they are 'better' by any stretch of the imagination; they are a better complement for him.