Devils and Red Wings Attendance issued rationalized

[mucker*]

I don't see how the Devils and the Red Wings can be compared here. The Devils are in a much different situation.

I'm still not sure whether it's really a wise decision in any market to basically have a team named after and marketed to the suburbs and not the main city it's based around. The Devils are New Jersey's team but really they are based in the same area as New York's football teams and I doubt the Devils draw much support from South Jersey as I imagine the Devils/Flyers faultline doesn't run far from the Giants/Eagles line so basically the Devils' market consists of the extended suburbs of New York in New Jersey. But at the same time I am sure many people who live in Jersey still identify with New York and root for New York teams? So if New Jersey teams are limited to North Jersey for fans but not even everyone in North Jersey will support them over the respective "proper" New York teams, what are the chances they will build large fanbases in the area?

Sure, the Devils have a new arena next season and may well sell it out but it's not very logical to claim that will reflect the "real" support of the team whereas the present troubles are just caused by a horrible arena located inconveniently. Everyone knows that a new arena will draw just based on the novelty factor and that it will make fan support look bigger than it really is for a few years.

No, I think the Devils' problem is a structural problem whereas the Red Wings' ticket problem is a situational one. The Wings are the only hockey team in a pretty big market that is generally more friendly to hockey than most other American markets and they are therefore in a pretty good position. Their recent problems are caused by economic troubles, loss of popular players, team not living up to high expectations for some time and playoff fatigue after a long run, ticket prices not adjusted to changed circumstances but those aren't problems that can't be solved or are really endangering the franchise.

Right on.

 

[kdb209]

Exactly.
No doubt the location may hurt, but the Giants and Jets play there and sellout.
Yes it's weekend, maybe some Monday, and football, but nonetheless the Devils have had a top divison team for almost a decade and have one of the league's lowest attendance.

I could understand if they had medicore attendance, but to average as low as they did, not sell out until the playoffs, and even then have empty seats, the new arena may maks but won't change the fact the Devils have a very small fanbase that pales in comparison to the Rangers because few people outside NJ would root for the Devils and even in NJ many assciate with being NY and grew up NYR fans.

The NHL goofed and never should have put three teams in that market.

Now I wait for the 5 Devils fans excuses.

1. It is rediculous to make any legitimate comparisons between NHL and NFL attendance in the swamp.
- The NFL has 8 home games (the vast majority on Sun afternoons), the NHL 41+ (most weekday night games).
- NFL games are "events", where the game is almost secondary, behind the tailgaiting and all day partying.
- The NFL draws fans from a much wider geographic area (I have friends who drive down from Boston and up from DC for Giants games).
- Both the Giants (and a lesser extent the Jets) have much longer history and tradition in the New York market. Dont discount the value of the "New York" in the teams' names.
- The NFL holds a MUCH higher place in the New York area sporting psyche than the NHL (second only to the Yankees, and some would argue that).

2. (and my real point):

The NHL didn't "goof". The NHL did not move the Rockies to New Jersey - John McMullen did. The league did not really have much of a say in the matter other than to approve the purchase by McMullen and move from a failing market (due to ownership issues) to New Jersey (just like they approved their move to Colorado 6 years earlier). Now you could argue that maybe McMullen "goofed" - but that was his perogative in making a business decision - and given that he sold the Devils for a lot more in 2000 than he paid for then in 1982, I'll pass on the "goof".

 

[xDerekRx]

I think some of you are missing the point or simply not reading my intent for this thread. By showing that the NETS are having similar trouble as the Devils in selling tickets it only further proves that the fault is based on location rather than the team itself. For example, the Nets cant even draw against a star like Lebron james in the NBA at the CAA so its more about location than the Devils based on the Nets example.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

- The NFL holds a MUCH higher place in the New York area sporting psyche than the NHL (second only to the Yankees, and some would argue that).

You made many good counter points except for this one which seems to support Iglooed's comment that "the NHL goofed and never should have put three teams in that market." Only the NHL approved three franchises in the NYC market, possibly one too many? The NFL is more popular and has only approved two teams in the metro area. Ditto MLB and the NBA.

GHOST

 

[krudmonk]

Maybe the original poster figured people would be smart enough to figure some things out for themselves without him having to hold their hands? For example, the article excerpt states:



It doesn't take a genius to realize that this quote indicates that the current arena location in NJ may not be ideal and that the arena location may be important to fans.

So what is this street with so much foot traffic, genius? It must be pretty damn busy for the new arena to lure in 17,000+ people right off the street. Poor location and streetfront location are not mutually exclusive, genius. And what does a street matter in NYC metro where people are all *****ing about the importance of public transit, genius? Do the subways use streets now, genius?

 

[DevFan-RU-]

I don't see how the Devils and the Red Wings can be compared here. The Devils are in a much different situation.

I'm still not sure whether it's really a wise decision in any market to basically have a team named after and marketed to the suburbs and not the main city it's based around. The Devils are New Jersey's team but really they are based in the same area as New York's football teams and I doubt the Devils draw much support from South Jersey as I imagine the Devils/Flyers faultline doesn't run far from the Giants/Eagles line so basically the Devils' market consists of the extended suburbs of New York in New Jersey. But at the same time I am sure many people who live in Jersey still identify with New York and root for New York teams? So if New Jersey teams are limited to North Jersey for fans but not even everyone in North Jersey will support them over the respective "proper" New York teams, what are the chances they will build large fanbases in the area?

Sure, the Devils have a new arena next season and may well sell it out but it's not very logical to claim that will reflect the "real" support of the team whereas the present troubles are just caused by a horrible arena located inconveniently. Everyone knows that a new arena will draw just based on the novelty factor and that it will make fan support look bigger than it really is for a few years.

No, I think the Devils' problem is a structural problem whereas the Red Wings' ticket problem is a situational one. The Wings are the only hockey team in a pretty big market that is generally more friendly to hockey than most other American markets and they are therefore in a pretty good position. Their recent problems are caused by economic troubles, loss of popular players, team not living up to high expectations for some time and playoff fatigue after a long run, ticket prices not adjusted to changed circumstances but those aren't problems that can't be solved or are really endangering the franchise.

Not all of us here associate with NY. Contrary to popular belief, NYC isn't the center of the ****ing universe. People in NJ who live and work here are quite proud of this state and don't like simply being labled as a "suburb" of NYC and Philly.

Let's not forget we have the biggest arena in the area (19,050 seats) trumping MSG (18,200) and the Colliseum (16,234).

Yadda yadda yadda... Go pick on the Islanders for awhile... their attendance is worse than ours.

 

[DevFan-RU-]

You made many good counter points except for this one which seems to support Iglooed's comment that "the NHL goofed and never should have put three teams in that market." Only the NHL approved three franchises in the NYC market, possibly one too many? The NFL is more popular and has only approved two teams in the metro area. Ditto MLB and the NBA.

GHOST

Then get rid of the Islanders... Long Island is all about Laccrosse these days, and not Hockey. Plus their arena is old, they aren't that successful... etc.



Even so, if they leave, it means Isles fans will just pay more attention to the Mets. None of those fans are going to the Rags of Devs to watch games.

The only benefit I see if they leave would be the almost complete elimination of them from my TV, giving more time to the Devils.

 

[mucker*]

You made many good counter points except for this one which seems to support Iglooed's comment that "the NHL goofed and never should have put three teams in that market." Only the NHL approved three franchises in the NYC market, possibly one too many? The NFL is more popular and has only approved two teams in the metro area. Ditto MLB and the NBA.

GHOST

NBA is not much more popular in the greater NYC region than the NHL, but MLB is and they don't have three teams.
It's too much, you might have a lot of people but between the media and airtime it's hard to split it three ways.
The Devils never should have come, three is too many and being in NJ basically they only have 1 area of the NYC market to remotely stand a chance at getting fans, and even then because the Rangers are the tradition and NYC is the center of the NY metro region many will id with New York in any event.
Stupid stupid.

 

[mucker*]

Not all of us here associate with NY. Contrary to popular belief, NYC isn't the center of the ****ing universe. People in NJ who live and work here are quite proud of this state and don't like simply being labled as a "suburb" of NYC and Philly.

Let's not forget we have the biggest arena in the area (19,050 seats) trumping MSG (18,200) and the Colliseum (16,234).

Yadda yadda yadda... Go pick on the Islanders for awhile... their attendance is worse than ours.

Yes, all 14K ID with NJ as opposed to NY in the NY metro region

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I can only imagine the hordes of fans who ignore the NHL to watch Anaheim's NFL team every fall.

San Diego isn't very far. I could see a lot of fans from the OC heading south during the fall. Not to mention the fact that there is basketball and baseball playoffs.

 

[FissionFire]

Then get rid of the Islanders... Long Island is all about Laccrosse these days, and not Hockey. Plus their arena is old, they aren't that successful... etc.



Even so, if they leave, it means Isles fans will just pay more attention to the Mets. None of those fans are going to the Rags of Devs to watch games.

The only benefit I see if they leave would be the almost complete elimination of them from my TV, giving more time to the Devils.

Sure, move the Isles to Kansas City and Detroit to the Eastern Conference!

 

[xDerekRx]

Again if your an anti-NBA person by default, The Spurs and Pistons are having a hard time selling tickets and its Conference finals time.

 

[crashlanding]

Yes, all 14K ID with NJ as opposed to NY in the NY metro region

Now you're just trolling.

The point in the original article is that it's an arena issue mostly. For everyone that says NJ's poor attendance is due to their "boring" style, keep in mind that the Nets play an uptempo, attacking, "exciting" style and still have even more trouble with attendance than the Devils.