Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - part XI

[devilsblood]

putting 2-3 of those guys on next year's roster is not tanking my dude. good lord

Well you would be taking a bad team and putting in less capable players.

We can all agree that Zajac has declined to some extent, but he is still a far more capable player then McLeod.

 

[devilsblood]

I dont know what to make of him skating with the team like a week ago but now hasnt joined them a few times. Its definitely odd and I dont think its all because of an injury.

It could be injury though. We know it's a constant struggle with him.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

It could be injury though. We know it's a constant struggle with him.

Yeah i think it is like 50/50. he definitely isnt 100% and I think holding him out guarantees he'll be good to be dealt

 

[Pitaya]

Vatanen being moved for a guy like Dzingel would, in fact, fit with ownerships request to be competitive sooner than later

Instead of the usual picks/prospects package we receive a forward signed with term only turning 28. Carolina saves cap and upgrades for this season

I think they regret signing Dzingel

But even if it isnt for Dzingel I would not be surprised if we acquire a roster player in return instead of picks.

At some point you need to add talent - not just chances at talent

 

[Guttersniped]

I like the idea that he’s being held out because I was assuming he’s injured and that was hindering any chance for a potential trade.

Maybe the Devils will try to get one of their older prospects like Jake Bean or Julian Gauthier. Both will have one more year on their ELC next season so Carolina has to figure out what to do with them going forward.

 

[dzubrus8]

Vatanen being moved for a guy like Dzingel would, in fact, fit with ownerships request to be competitive sooner than later

Instead of the usual picks/prospects package we receive a forward signed with term only turning 28. Carolina saves cap and upgrades for this season

I think they regret signing Dzingel

But even if it isnt for Dzingel I would not be surprised if we acquire a roster playing in return instead of picks.

At some point you need to add talent - not just chances at talent

With all due respect, I don't think that's the type of player the Devils should be looking at. 28 with one year left and clearly not the player he was during his contract year when he seemed to be turning a corner. And Carolina's offense is better than ours: I don't think his production is going to improve in NJ. Stylistically I don't know much about him but he's a 6'0 left wing with two years of an unsustainably high SH% followed by a year with an unsustainably low SH%. 8g and 21a in 55 games isn't enough to entice me either

If we're trading Vats, I wouldn't mind sending him to a team with a decent goalie stuck in the AHL (Pittsburgh has someone like that last I heard) or a defender who's victim to the numbers game (Carolina sounds like they have a few of those still). But I hesitate to get another 28-year old, 40-point winger for this team: that's not what we need and given how much there is to re-sign next year in our next GM's first year (Coleman, Palms, Gusev, Zajac) I don't want to add more to that mess

 

[njdevil26]

I was actually starting to think that Vatanen is just being held out for a trade.

 

[NJDevs26]

i wouldnt sweat it either, but i'd rather have the 2nd. although i think the return would be greater than that.

i want a least a few of the following guys on the roster next year: mcleod, anderson, bastian, seney, maltsev, boqvist. somebody's gotta go, and zajac (given his relative value to other teams) should be at the top of the list

Nobody on that list other than Boqvist (who was on the team for half the season anyway) and Anderson I'd conceivably want above a fourth line at best next year.

 

[aboriginal]

yeah no f*** dzingel

 

[MartyOwns]

Nobody on that list other than Boqvist (who was on the team for half the season anyway) and Anderson I'd conceivably want above a fourth line at best next year.

good thing we’ll have a 4th line then, i guess

 

[None Shall Pass]

McLeod and Anderson on the 4th line next year would be tons better than our 4th line this year. They're both tenacious and good for 200 feet. I'd love to see that.

Wood, McLeod, and Anderson on a line would just be so fun to watch. Two of our fastest skaters and a gritty RW to go with it? Sign me the hell up.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

McLeod and Anderson on the 4th line next year would be tons better than our 4th line this year. They're both tenacious and good for 200 feet. I'd love to see that.

Wood, McLeod, and Anderson on a line would just be so fun to watch. Two of our fastest skaters and a gritty RW to go with it? Sign me the hell up.

McLeod and Anderson are not going to move any needles though. The 4th line is the 4th line. Swapping in those guys is shuffling deck chairs. Yeah, I'd rather watch those guys than the current 4th line, but I don't expect it to have any tangible impact on the teams performance.

To be competitive, we need a couple very talented additions up front in the top 6 and, like, 4 NHL D men including a true number 1. It's pretty daunting what Fitz is up against if the owners want to compete next season. I'd say it's actually impossible.

 

[Devils731]

You don’t hold Vatanen’s out for a trade, imo, because he was missing time for being hurt.

If you were the buying team wouldn’t you want to see him play at least 1 healthy game before giving up assets for him? Especially if it’s a good amount of assets?

 

[MartyOwns]

It's pretty daunting what Fitz is up against if the owners want to compete next season. I'd say it's actually impossible.

i'm really not sure it is all that daunting. getting competent goaltending and coaching should be the biggest priorities going into next season. as some of you know, i'm not one to be overly optimistic, but just getting those 2 pieces could very well make us a bubble team. i definitely don't think it's impossible

 

[None Shall Pass]

McLeod and Anderson are not going to move any needles though. The 4th line is the 4th line. Swapping in those guys is shuffling deck chairs. Yeah, I'd rather watch those guys than the current 4th line, but I don't expect it to have any tangible impact on the teams performance.

To be competitive, we need a couple very talented additions up front in the top 6 and, like, 4 NHL D men including a true number 1. It's pretty daunting what Fitz is up against if the owners want to compete next season. I'd say it's actually impossible.

I'd disagree with both parts of this post:

1. McLeod and Anderson give us a much bigger offensive threat on the 4th line than Rooney and Hayden, because virtually anyone else would over Rooney and Hayden.

2. Someone posted yesterday that post-Hall, we're pretty much average in the league. One or two new D-men, a backup goalie, and an actual coach should do us wonders.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

i'm really not sure it is all that daunting. getting competent goaltending and coaching should be the biggest priorities going into next season. as some of you know, i'm not one to be overly optimistic, but just getting those 2 pieces could very well make us a bubble team. i definitely don't think it's impossible

Unless the defense is addressed in a major way, I don't see this team competing for a playoff spot. I appreciate your optimism, though.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I'd disagree with both parts of this post:

1. McLeod and Anderson give us a much bigger offensive threat on the 4th line than Rooney and Hayden, because virtually anyone else would over Rooney and Hayden.

2. Someone posted yesterday that post-Hall, we're pretty much average in the league. One or two new D-men, a backup goalie, and an actual coach should do us wonders.

Until proven otherwise, I cannot agree with part one. What have either of those players done to show they are any more of an offensive threat than Kevin Rooney? Here or in Bingo?

Part two, again, I appreciate the optimism. Hopefully that's the case. I wonder if the better record has more to do with other teams taking us really, really lightly after losing our only true scoring threat, though.

 

[R8Devs]

Vatanen being moved for a guy like Dzingel would, in fact, fit with ownerships request to be competitive sooner than later

Instead of the usual picks/prospects package we receive a forward signed with term only turning 28. Carolina saves cap and upgrades for this season

I think they regret signing Dzingel

But even if it isnt for Dzingel I would not be surprised if we acquire a roster player in return instead of picks.

At some point you need to add talent - not just chances at talent

Dzingel is turning 28 in a couple of weeks so I don't think that'd be someone who 'grows' with the team. Similar in age to Vatanen. If they want a guy that can possibly contribute soon while also getting younger it'd be guys like Kuokkanen and Bokk that could do so.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Until proven otherwise, I cannot agree with part one. What have either of those players done to show they are any more of an offensive threat than Kevin Rooney? Here or in Bingo?

Part two, again, I appreciate the optimism. Hopefully that's the case. I wonder if the better record has more to do with other teams taking us really, really lightly after losing our only true scoring threat, though.

Uhh idk maybe score at a better rate than him while being much younger and more talented?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Uhh idk maybe score at a better rate than him while being much younger and more talented?

I'm not one for rates when you only have 5 NHL points. Don't get me wrong, I like McLeod. I just don't see him being anything close to an impact player for this team. I don't think he is very talented either. Nor is Anderson. They try hard and are young, though, so that's good. Both can prove me wrong. Hopefully they do.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

I'm not one for rates when you only have 5 NHL points. Don't get me wrong, I like McLeod. I just don't see him being anything close to an impact player for this team. I don't think he is very talented either. Nor is Anderson. They try hard and are young, though, so that's good. Both can prove me wrong. Hopefully they do.

If you cannot tell that both have more talent that Kevin rooney I dont know what to tell you and its weird to add in "what have they done" and include Bingo when Rooney didnt produce as well as them in Bingo.

 

[dzubrus8]

If we're sending Sami Vatanen to Carolina, could we get Toronto's 1st from the Patrick Marleau trade (which is top-10 protected for this year)? Or how about Jake Bean? Playoff teams don't usually require 2 1st round picks and I'd wonder if they feel like they're a playoff team with Vatanen

 

[dzubrus8]

What are the returns for these players this TDL (ufas, rumors and wishful thinking):
Vatanen-
Greene-
Simmonds-
Zajac-
Wood-
Coleman-
Zacha-
Gusev-
Palms-
Add your own-

Here goes nothing-
10 points = superstar return (think
9 points = 1st + multiple stud prospects or 1st + solid young roster player (think Zucker or Stone)
8 points = 1st + stud prospect or 1st + decent roster player (think Hall)
7 points = 1st or 2nd + B prospect or 2nd + 3rd (think Mojo, Palmieri)
6 points = 2nd or 3rd + B prospect
5 points = 3rd or 4th + filler or similar player
4 points = 4th or similar-level filler to player (think Dalton Prout for Kyle Quincey)
3 points = 5th or 6th
2 points = 7th or conditional pick no higher than 5th
1 point = future considerations / future 7th
0 points = nothing: you could not give away without retaining and adding

Vatanen- 7.5 / 10 (maybe a 1st but at least a 2nd + 3rd)
Greene- 5.5 / 10 (maybe a 2nd but at least a 3rd)
Simmonds- 4.5 / 10 (probably a mid-round pick)
Zajac- N/A (not going anywhere)
Wood- 5 / 10 (similar player coming back)
Coleman- 8 / 10 (1st and solid prospect)
Zacha- 6 / 10 (probably a 2nd or a similar snakebitten prospect)
Gusev- 7 / 10 (at least a 2nd, maybe not a 1st)
Palms- 8.5 / 10 (a 1st, a good prospect, and probably a roster player)

 

[Forge]

If we're sending Sami Vatanen to Carolina, could we get Toronto's 1st from the Patrick Marleau trade (which is top-10 protected for this year)? Or how about Jake Bean? Playoff teams don't usually require 2 1st round picks and I'd wonder if they feel like they're a playoff team with Vatanen

Rental firsts seem to be diminishing, but they still happen frequently enough that I could see it, especially with a market.

No way on bean.

But honestly, they aren't close enough in my opinion to dust off firsts, even lates. So I'm kind of hedging toward a second + b prospect. I like Drury

 

[MartyOwns]

Unless the defense is addressed in a major way, I don't see this team competing for a playoff spot. I appreciate your optimism, though.

well, i agree that until the defense is addressed we aren't going to be competing for a cup. but if we have a coach that can implement a better defensive strategy (and that includes better forward support in our zone as well) and two goalies that can save 9 pucks on every 10 shots, our defense is going to look a hell of a lot better