Detroit Red Wings #8 Prospect - Summer 2016
- Thread starter The Zetterberg Era
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The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
XO is my vote this round. Was the best D-man in Grand Rapids by a healthy margin last year. Hopefully he has figured something out with his skating to become a top 4 guy, if not he is a very serviceable and smart third pairing guy in the NHL for a while in my opinion.
My add this round and probably for a while is James De Haas. Have him above Pearson for this round. Yes I have both guys above Joe Hicketts...
My add this round and probably for a while is James De Haas. Have him above Pearson for this round. Yes I have both guys above Joe Hicketts...
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,246
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How much stock is there in being the best defeneman if GR if your game doesn't translate well to the next level?
I mean pretty sure Almqvist was the best defenseman in GR for a stretch and that got him a nice deal over in Europe.
Russo is much more promising than Ouellet at this point.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I guess because you have seen him struggle at times in the NHL. He has also looked good in games there too.
I don't buy Russo as a big time guy. I certainly cannot put him above the guy I thought routinely carried the mail when they were paired together. What Ouellet does well there are places for in the NHL. He is a smart hockey player, he just needs a little pickup in his skating. Russo's offensive weaponry is lacking at this point in my opinion to make the leap. We will see what he does to build on a good rookie season, but keep in mind he is five months older than Ouellet anyway. Less pro time sure, but acting like XO is finished and Russo has all this developing isn't totally true in my opinion.
If I was going for the puck moving D-man on GR last year I would vote Sproul over Russo anyway. Sproul has much better tools and is very similar defensively after several steps in his game as Russo is. NHL coaches like D-man that can play defense, so it is likely Ouellet wins out there long-term anyway, keep in mind Blashill loved him when he was down there. But I think he will because he is a lot smarter than the other two guys. We will see, hope Russo consolidates this year, he will be less sheltered as hopefully they give him more defensive challenges. When XO and Russo were split it was XO to do defensive lifting and Russo to be put primarily in offensive positions.
I guess I would like someone to state what Russo does so well without just putting up his stats? Because like Almqvist (who has more in common with Russo than Ouellet for me) I see real problems translating up thus far. He still has a ways to go before I put him in front of a guy I expect to see significant time in the NHL and if he does find more speed in his skating is a top 4 kind of player.
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,246
- 14,755
So why do you think he can put up considerably better numbers despite not having any better attributes? Dumb luck, or what?
I mean he has 1 more assist in the AHL in 112 less games. It's not like it's a small gap.
And yeah, I'd almost rather side with the guy I haven't seen in the NHL yet, versus the guy who's looked mostly bad and can't carve out a spot on the worst defense we've iced in 20 years.
KJoe88
Forever Lost.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
His NHL callup was mediocre. Its not hate. Hes just another 5-6-7 Defender with no offense and passable defence and those are not sexy.
Sproul. Has the best tools on the list, and hoping last year was a turning point for him. His floor might not be as high as XO's, but his ceiling is still significantly higher. If we have to choose between them this fall, I'm hoping we don't risk Sproul to waivers.
Voted Russo, just because XO didn't look good at all last season when he was called up.
Then again, the only reason I voted Russo is because of his stats (don't follow the Griffs at all). Based on that limited information though, I wanna see what Russo's got next season -- hopefully he gets a call up.
Then again, the only reason I voted Russo is because of his stats (don't follow the Griffs at all). Based on that limited information though, I wanna see what Russo's got next season -- hopefully he gets a call up.
Your a good poster and all but man sometimes your biases really shine through when you post. I remember when you thought Russo should've started down in the ECHL for a while. I remember when Russo had nothing on Mike Reilly but he goes on to play much better than him in the A. Yeah he plays for Iowa, but that's just an excuse and the only one at that. He wasn't good for Minnesota in his games either. Russo then goes on the be GR's best D and you credit Ouellet for Russo's amazing play, but not the other way around, especially considering that last year was Ouellet's best year? Can't have one without the other. You can't even give both credit, and say they complemented each other well, nope it was all Ouellet. He scored those 40 points and had the best +/- in the AHL. If you want to use the age argument go ahead, but Russo is only 5 months older and everyone knows for a fact that Ouellet will never have the type of season he had last year. Russo's been a good prospect since his Junior year at ND where he had .92PPG his final two years. Looks like that offensive ability has translated to the A no problem, while every single standout asset Ouellet had, has been left in the CHL.
All's Ouellet has to do is find his skating which he hasn't in 4+ years and he's a surefire top 4 but Russo has a ways to go? C'mon man. Ouellet's looked lost out there on the bottom pairing and his two way play has been completely lacking in the NHL. There's a reason why Marchenko passed him no problem, even though I can all but guarantee you liked Ouellet more at the time.
Comparing Russo in any way to Almqvist is laughable and shows your grasping at straws. Russo isn't a 5'9 170 guy from the SHL. And even if he was, having to get stronger is hell of a lot easier than becoming faster. You never hear of someone going from slow to fast, but you hear skinny guys bulking up all the time.
You want to know what makes Russo good besides his stats (Like having really good stats are a bad thing. Where are Ouellet's really good stats? They've been missing since 2012 that's right. Ouellet has gotten marginally better since leaving the Armada. His D and IQ have always been good. His skating, strength, and offensive game have done nothing to show that he isn't much more than an AHL guy)? Russo comes in from out of nowhere to earn the coaches trust and quickly moves his way up the lineup while having a 40 point season with the best +/- in Griffins history and about 30 points higher than the next guy. Russo makes a very good first pass and moves the puck well. Has very good hockey sense and is poised while under pressure. His defensive game is solid and it's untrue to say that it's not. He can actually skate and has good lateral movement. He's also a leader too. He was captain for the US at the U-18's and he was captain for ND as well.
I guess I'd like someone to state why Ouellet plays so well and can be a Top 4 in the NHL besides certain peoples own imaginary eye test?
Incredibly small sample size, but 5 on 5 numbers for Xavier Ouellet's NHL career (spanning 30 games from 2013-2016):
0.56 primary points (goals and primary assists) per 60 minutes, highest of any Red Wings defenseman over that timeframe.
56.78% Corsi for, highest of any Red Wings defenseman over that timeframe.
+4.46 relative Corsi for, highest of any Red Wings defenseman over that timeframe.
57.57% expected goals for, highest of any Red Wings defenseman over that timeframe.
+7.80 relative expected goals for, highest of any Red Wings defenseman over that timeframe.
All stats pulled from http://www.corsica.hockey/
Again, it's an extremely small sample size (and he has been fairly sheltered in terms of deployment), but for a guy who supposedly has been disappointing in his NHL appearances, the numbers seem to provide a little more positive picture. Is he as good as those numbers would indicate? No, absolutely not. But early results are a bit more promising than some fans seem to think.
KJoe88
Forever Lost.
Guess I was watching a different XO.
The one I saw had poise and calmness. He made a few mistakes, but his pros were way more evident. He never was shy about going out there to try and correct them either. He's better than what some of you stating. He was the best defenseman in GR too. :/
Whatever, I guess. To each their own. *shrugs*
The one I saw had poise and calmness. He made a few mistakes, but his pros were way more evident. He never was shy about going out there to try and correct them either. He's better than what some of you stating. He was the best defenseman in GR too. :/
Whatever, I guess. To each their own. *shrugs*
Russo, but I wouldn't argue with Sproul or XO, I guess.
XO has shown, in the NHL, that he won't ever be more than a 6D. Russo and Sproul get the current benefit of not having played in the NHL, so there's still hope they can be more than that. Additionally, they both have some actual offensive ability, where I think XO actually has less, at the NHL level, than Marchenko.
Either way, the prospect pool at this point is kind of mediocre, and I think we're generally picking from a bunch of "probably has little or no NHL game". I'm surprised that Givani is still on the board, though. I'd have thought 'shiny new' might get him bumped up a bit.
XO has shown, in the NHL, that he won't ever be more than a 6D. Russo and Sproul get the current benefit of not having played in the NHL, so there's still hope they can be more than that. Additionally, they both have some actual offensive ability, where I think XO actually has less, at the NHL level, than Marchenko.
Either way, the prospect pool at this point is kind of mediocre, and I think we're generally picking from a bunch of "probably has little or no NHL game". I'm surprised that Givani is still on the board, though. I'd have thought 'shiny new' might get him bumped up a bit.
Givani is probably my guy after Sproul. Even if he doesn't become a top6 guy, he has size and an attitude, attributes that should play well in the bottom half of the lineup. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing some more bangers on this team if we're not going to go with more skill.
Yeah, I like what he brings, but I guess I'm not sure where to slot him into the current group. If he's a 4th line banger, maybe you're right and he belongs with the Sproul/XO/Russo group? I just don't know enough about him to think about pushing him much higher, yet. I am really interested in seeing him and Cholowski this season.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
MTU hockey
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I don't think TZE ever admitted to being unbiased on anything but you clearly have a strong opinion of Russo (maybe you have a bias for him
). A lot of posters seem to have some facts mixed up on Ouellet though, like the fact that Marchenko has passed him, even though it was XO who made the Wings roster out of training camp a few years ago, but KH sent him down and Babcock complained to the media about the move. XO also debuted in the playoffs over Kindl even though he was a rookie. If I remember correctly Blash never gave XO any consistant PP time in GR (not saying he deserved any) so that does have an impact on his offensive stats (15+ points with no PP time is nothing to complain about). I like the part about Russo being a leader though, like XO wasn't a captain of his team at the age of 18 or anything. XO also played for team canada for the WJC (arguably a harder roster to crack) while on a sprained ankle, which is pretty impressive really. Plus minus is a worthless stat, and if that's being used to prop a player up it is YOU who is grasping at straws. Cause Jeff Schultz is a better defenseman than Mike Green, cause dat plus minus right?
Also producing in the AHL is good, it's usually a useful indicator of NHL success. But there are always those Pulkkinen's and Almqvist's that put up good stats, but still have weakness's that prevent them from having long careers in the NHL. I mean Sheahan had pretty mediocre stats in the AHL, but if you watched him play you could still tell he had better NHL potential than Joakim Andersson, who had better stats.
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