Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #4

[simonedvinsson]

Let's not be disingenuous about Sebastian Cossa's talent level or career projection to prop up Jonatan Berggren, a stellar prospect in his own right. The Red Wings took Cossa ahead of Jesper Wallstedt for crying out loud, and at least a handful of other teams had him ahead of Wallstedt on their lists as well. We've got arguably the best Swedish scout in the NHL, Håkan Andersson, and he approved taking Cossa over Wallstedt too. Mark Edwards' staff, which is as close to an NHL scouting staff as you're going to get in the media, had Cossa ranked seventh overall.

The notion that the Red Wings' scouting staff drafted Cossa based solely on his stat-line is absurd. If it was that easy, we would've drafted Devon Levi over Jan Bednář in last year's draft or one of those 6'8" goalies that went in the seventh round. I know our European and goaltending scouts were excited about that guy, but Bednář's stats sucked. With Cossa (or any goaltender for that matter), I think you see his stats and his size and take notice, but ultimately, you go out and watch him play. Admittedly, I haven't seen him play in person, and I've only seen him in a handful of games online, but he really impressed me in every game I watched.

Sebastian Cossa is a massive, agile, competitive, athletic goaltender that looks like the second coming of Pekka Rinne. His stats are unbelievable, unsustainable, unrelatable, undeniable, unreliable - whatever. Go watch him play. He's a stud... and our fourth best prospect.

Add Tyutyayev!​

 

[ricky0034]

Expected this.

It's possible that Cossa would come in at #51 - pushing Berggren to #52.

However it's a very small possibility and it seems strange Wheeler would go out of his way to comment that only 3 goalies would get into the Top 50 if that was the case.

....or maybe he said that because he was literally making a top 50 list

 

[Gyldenlove]

Let's not be disingenuous about Sebastian Cossa's talent level or career projection to prop up Jonatan Berggren, a stellar prospect in his own right. The Red Wings took Cossa ahead of Jesper Wallstedt for crying out loud, and at least a handful of other teams had him ahead of Wallstedt on their lists as well. We've got arguably the best Swedish scout in the NHL, Håkan Andersson, and he approved taking Cossa over Wallstedt too. Mark Edwards' staff, which is as close to an NHL scouting staff as you're going to get in the media, had Cossa ranked seventh overall.

The notion that the Red Wings' scouting staff drafted Cossa based solely on his stat-line is absurd. If it was that easy, we would've drafted Devon Levi over Jan Bednář in last year's draft or one of those 6'8" goalies that went in the seventh round. I know our European and goaltending scouts were excited about that guy, but Bednář's stats sucked. With Cossa (or any goaltender for that matter), I think you see his stats and his size and take notice, but ultimately, you go out and watch him play. Admittedly, I haven't seen him play in person, and I've only seen him in a handful of games online, but he really impressed me in every game I watched.

Sebastian Cossa is a massive, agile, competitive, athletic goaltender that looks like the second coming of Pekka Rinne. His stats are unbelievable, unsustainable, unrelatable, undeniable, unreliable - whatever. Go watch him play. He's a stud... and our fourth best prospect.

Add Tyutyayev!​

I agree that this is more about size - athleticism than stats. I think the debate between Wallstedt and Cossa will come down wether Wallstedt is always going to be technically enough better than Cossa to compensate for the size difference. In this case I think the Wings looked at it and chose that the one aspect of goaltending you can't teach (size) was the determining factor. Wallstedt will never be as big as Cossa, but Cossa may at some point become the most skilled goalie of the two.

 

[Pavels Dog]

....or maybe he said that because he was literally making a top 50 list

What?
I mean.. yeah. But there's still no indication that he would have ranked Cossa at #51 - so by all evidence it's logical to extrapolate that regardless of where the top 3 goalies would slide in on the top 50, Berggren would still rank ahead of Cossa. Likely be a sizeable margin (given Wheeler's draft ranking of Cossa and the fact that there's a number of prospects he had between Wallstedt and Cossa that weren't in his top 64 prospects on this ranking).

 

[Henkka]

I agree that this is more about size - athleticism than stats. I think the debate between Wallstedt and Cossa will come down wether Wallstedt is always going to be technically enough better than Cossa to compensate for the size difference. In this case I think the Wings looked at it and chose that the one aspect of goaltending you can't teach (size) was the determining factor. Wallstedt will never be as big as Cossa, but Cossa may at some point become the most skilled goalie of the two.

This is what I have heard from Yzerman's mouth on Tampa GM days, numerous times.

 

[ZDH]

The way I see it the general consensus with Berggren is Nyquist at best.

Yea - give me Cossa over that.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

The way I see it the general consensus with Berggren is Nyquist at best.

Yea - give me Cossa over that.

And that's not a bad thing. Nyquist is a career middle six winger who has earned 40million and counting playing in the NHL. If JB goes in to repeat that... that's a win for us.

Personally I agree with you.. A career #1 goalie is just more valuable to the DRW.

 

[r0bert8841]

Berggren vs Veleno is interesting. That's next.
Berggren has Veleno beat badly with points last year, but I suspect Veleno is going to be the better player.

I think this is the real debate that should be had. Berggren has the higher ceiling, not by much. Veleno is closer to reaching it though. I don't think the actual vote is going to be as close as it should be.

 

[Frk It]

Ready for #5. Berggren, Veleno, Johansson will be my next 3.

Add Mastrosimone.

 

[deca guard]

berggren vs veleno
- veleno a center
- bergy can wheel , make his own space , make excellent passes
- veleno a bigger bodied power skater that can deal in traffic
- bergy better goal scorer and creative thinker
- veleno can cover opponants big centers

these two imo make excellent line mates

 

[deca guard]

hakan basically called edvinsson over eklund . and cossa over walstedt because if hakan loved either one i think yzerman would have drafted

 

[RabidBadger]

So to sum up..

People who rate Berggren > Cossa are =

- Jokes
- Unwashed
- Rabid
- Unreasonable
- Not perfect

This disqualifies their opinion.


He commented that if he hadn't seperated the lists, 3 goalies would make the top 50 (i.e. not Cossa).
He seperated the lists only to be able to write about more than 2-3 goalies.

There's nothing wrong with being rabid. I probably qualify for the other 4 categories as well, but enough about me.

Add McIsaac.

 

[izlez]

berggren vs veleno
- veleno a center
- bergy can wheel , make his own space , make excellent passes
- veleno a bigger bodied power skater that can deal in traffic
- bergy better goal scorer and creative thinker
- veleno can cover opponants big centers

these two imo make excellent line mates

What makes you say this? As far as I know, Berggren is really a playmaker with "goal scoring" as a weakness

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

hakan basically called edvinsson over eklund . and cossa over walstedt because if hakan loved either one i think yzerman would have drafted

Not necessarily true. The Wings had Edvinsson really high and expected he would go much higher. My guess is they thought he would be the number 2 d drafted instead of Hughes.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Not necessarily true. The Wings had Edvinsson really high and expected he would go much higher. My guess is they thought he would be the number 2 d drafted instead of Hughes.

Honestly I think we really lucked out that Hughes had a brother playing in NJ. I like Luke Hughes a lot, but to me Edvinsson has the same upside, but in the worst case is a functional 2nd pairing defenseman whereas I could see Hughes not panning out if he can't clean up his defense. Hughes is definitely further along in terms of offensive development, especially his O-zone passing and shooting, but defending can be a struggle for him. I'm not sure he can be so elite offensively like Quinn that you overlook his defensive woes so he's got some bust potential for me.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Honestly I think we really lucked out that Hughes had a brother playing in NJ. I like Luke Hughes a lot, but to me Edvinsson has the same upside, but in the worst case is a functional 2nd pairing defenseman whereas I could see Hughes not panning out if he can't clean up his defense. Hughes is definitely further along in terms of offensive development, especially his O-zone passing and shooting, but defending can be a struggle for him. I'm not sure he can be so elite offensively like Quinn that you overlook his defensive woes so he's got some bust potential for me.

Same. I like Hughes skating but the rest of his game makes me think he's got a long way to go before becoming an NHLer. He also doesn't strike me as the kind of player that if the offense doesn't work out that he'd be able to carve out a niche as a defensive guy.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

It seems very encouraging that the 15th overall pick in this year's draft is ranked 4th among a team's prospects

 

[Henkka]

It seems very encouraging that the 15th overall pick in this year's draft is ranked 4th among a team's prospects

Yeah, the order is

1. #6 overall 2019
2. #4 overall 2020
3. #6 overall 2021
4. #15 overall 2021

Not so surprising?

And the next guys are gonna be #30 overall and #33 overall.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Yeah, the order is

1. #6 overall 2019
2. #4 overall 2020
3. #6 overall 2021
4. #15 overall 2021

Not so surprising?

And the next guys are gonna be #30 overall and #33 overall.

Hmmmmm........