Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[IPS]

Despite having franchise changing talent in the organization since the day he got here, Kyle Dubas' team has failed every year.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Despite having franchise changing talent in the organization since the day he got here, Kyle Dubas' team has failed every year.

Yeah, but that's like Lou's, the fans, the refs, Mike's, Kadri's, the NHL, Freddy's and Hyman's fault.

It most certainly wasn't that dreamy, Harry Potter-wannabee, Kyle 'It wasn't me' Dubas' fault.

 

[TheRumble]

Yeah, but that's like Lou's, the fans, the refs, Mike's, Kadri's, the NHL, Freddy's and Hyman's fault.

It most certainly wasn't that dreamy, Harry Potter-wannabee, Kyle 'It wasn't me' Dubas' fault.

Like what do you want him to do? Suit up and play games? They didn't lose all those playoff series because Dubas.

If you wanna blame him for the team construction post 2018, okay but the only thing for him to do then would be to blow it up.

Like I don't get this practice of shitting on moves that amount to role players when this teams bread and butter are the core 5 players.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Like what do you want him to do? Suit up and play games? They didn't lose all those playoff series because Dubas.

If you wanna blame him for the team construction post 2018, okay but the only thing for him to do then would be to blow it up.

Like I don't get this practice of shitting on moves that amount to role players when this teams bread and butter are the core 5 players.

Like what do I want the GM to do? Like do the job of a GM. Like, for us that have seen fault in a lot of his moves over the last 4 years, and have repeatedly explained why we don't like said moves, and have repeatedly been ostracized, it's hard to answer what we want him to do now, because we're so far down the rabbit hole now.

Blowing it up wouldn't have been necessary a couple of years ago. In all honesty, it probably isn't needed now.

If you want a good regular season team, we're right there. We don't need to do anything. If you want to see us win 16 post season games, it's going to be a lot harder and would require a whole change of mindset from the top down.

 

[TheRumble]

Like what do I want the GM to do? Like do the job of a GM. Like, for us that have seen fault in a lot of his moves over the last 4 years, and have repeatedly explained why we don't like said moves, and have repeatedly been ostracized, it's hard to answer what we want him to do now, because we're so far down the rabbit hole now.

Blowing it up wouldn't have been necessary a couple of years ago. In all honesty, it probably isn't needed now.

If you want a good regular season team, we're right there. We don't need to do anything. If you want to see us win 16 post season games, it's going to be a lot harder and would require a whole change of mindset from the top down.

You can't simultaneously believe that this team is flawed from top to bottom while believing that it is a few minor role players from winning a Cup or even a series. It doesn't make any logical sense.

If you believe the latter that means a complete teardown is in order. If you believe the former that means a few minor pieces will put the team over the top. A new GM is probably not gonna help with that.

As far as being ostracized by the fanbase, HFBoards is kinda a safe space for fans like you since the majority of people here are of the same line of thinking so I dunno where that victim mentality is coming from. To me you're just coming off as an emotional fan who needs their feelings validated by other fans who feel the same way.

 

[All Mod Cons]

You can't simultaneously believe that this team is flawed from top to bottom while believing that it is a few minor role players from winning a Cup or even a series. It doesn't make any logical sense.

If you believe the latter that means a complete teardown is in order. If you believe the former that means a few minor pieces will put the team over the top. A new GM is probably not gonna help with that.

As far as being ostracized by the fanbase, HFBoards is kinda a safe space for fans like you since the majority of people here are of the same line of thinking so I dunno where that victim mentality is coming from. To me you're just coming off as an emotional fan who needs their feelings validated by other fans who feel the same way.

I don't think we need a complete teardown. I think we need to move Muzzin, Tavares and a few others.

Maybe that is a teardown? I don't want to get in to attacks like yourself, I believe most posters here are better than that, but to each their own.

What I do know is, the Dubas fan club, have repeatedly been wrong and it's best to take what they say with a pinch of salt.

I enjoy talking to and reading comments from knowledge fans here. There are a huge group of fans that know what they're talking about. The fanclub? Not so much imo.

 

[TheRumble]

I don't think we need a complete teardown. I think we need to move Muzzin, Tavares and a few others.

Maybe that is a teardown? I don't want to get in to attacks like yourself, I believe most posters here are better than that, but to each their own.

What I do know is, the Dubas fan club, have repeatedly been wrong and it's best to take what they say with a pinch of salt.

I enjoy talking to and reading comments from knowledge fans here. There are a huge group of fans that know what they're talking about. The fanclub? Not so much imo.

This is a 123 page thread where the vast majority of the comments are dunking on the OP so I dunno where this Dubas Fabclub stuff comes from.

Most of the personnel decisions I see Dubas criticized for here are the result of hindsight bias more so than anything else.

Like wanting Tavares gone is just a dumb, dumb reason to blame Dubas. Tavares might be overpaid but he's still an effective 2C. Trading him for pennies on the dollar means you made the team worse. This isn't a situation where you trade $100 bill for five $20s and come out on top.

So many of the reasons to criticize Dubas here is just the result of cognitive biases and logical fallacies.

I enjoy talking to and reading comments from knowledge fans here.

HFBoards is one of the worst communities I've ever been a part of when it comes to talking hockey. The only people I take seriously here are the regulars in the prospects forums.

There's very rarely any meaningful discussion of hockey strategy, tactics and the player evaluation on this forum is behind the rest of the internet.

 

[All Mod Cons]

This is a 123 page thread where the vast majority of the comments are dunking on the OP so I dunno where this Dubas Fabclub stuff comes from.

Most of the personnel decisions I see Dubas criticized for here are the result of hindsight bias more so than anything else.

Like wanting Tavares gone is just a dumb, dumb reason to blame Dubas. Tavares might be overpaid but he's still an effective 2C. Trading him for pennies on the dollar means you made the team worse. This isn't a situation where you trade $100 bill for five $20s and come out on top.

So many of the reasons to criticize Dubas here is just the result of cognitive biases and logical fallacies.

I enjoy talking to and reading comments from knowledge fans here.

HFBoards is one of the worst communities I've ever been a part of when it comes to talking hockey. The only people I take seriously here are the regulars in the prospects forums.

There's very rarely any meaningful discussion of hockey strategy, tactics and the player evaluation on this forum is behind the rest of the internet.

Sounds like you wish to take a break from reading and posting here?

 

[TheRumble]

Sounds like you wish to take a break from reading and posting here?

I frequently do.

But here's an example of HFBoards stupidity as a forum. No other hockey community on the Internet would have voted Elias Petterson as better than Matthews in 2019 but HFBoards did. The threads on the main hockey forums just descend into drive by shit posting and people with personal grudges against a team.

 

[Nineteen67]

Despite having franchise changing talent in the organization since the day he got here, Kyle Dubas' team has failed every year.

Yep. Three months later and still nobody knows what the “test” is.

 

[Nineteen67]

Like what do you want him to do? Suit up and play games? They didn't lose all those playoff series because Dubas.

If you wanna blame him for the team construction post 2018, okay but the only thing for him to do then would be to blow it up.

Like I don't get this practice of shitting on moves that amount to role players when this teams bread and butter are the core 5 players.

If the “only thing“ was to “blow it up”, why didn’t he do that?

 

[DarkKnight]

This is a 123 page thread where the vast majority of the comments are dunking on the OP so I dunno where this Dubas Fabclub stuff comes from.

Most of the personnel decisions I see Dubas criticized for here are the result of hindsight bias more so than anything else.

Like wanting Tavares gone is just a dumb, dumb reason to blame Dubas. Tavares might be overpaid but he's still an effective 2C. Trading him for pennies on the dollar means you made the team worse. This isn't a situation where you trade $100 bill for five $20s and come out on top.

So many of the reasons to criticize Dubas here is just the result of cognitive biases and logical fallacies.

I enjoy talking to and reading comments from knowledge fans here.

HFBoards is one of the worst communities I've ever been a part of when it comes to talking hockey. The only people I take seriously here are the regulars in the prospects forums.

There's very rarely any meaningful discussion of hockey strategy, tactics and the player evaluation on this forum is behind the rest of the internet.

You know what‘s funny about this post, outside of this place they’ve pretty much figured Dubas out. Where are these bastions of intelligent discourse heaping praise on his accomplishments? They don’t exist, apart from fan boys littered across all social media.

Cogntiive bias and logical fallacies, all these big concepts that are easily turned around. It’s just puffed up word salad.

 

[TheRumble]

If the “only thing“ was to “blow it up”, why didn’t he do that?

Because that would be stupid.

You got a core where 3 of the 5 guys are under the age of 25 still that regularly makes the playoffs and has regular season success. You don't blow up a team like that because it's extremely hard to rebuild. They don't even do that in the NBA which is a min-max league. People don't realize how fortunate the Leafs were to go from perennial basement team to where they are now as fast as they did.

Learn how other sports work. It's not a video game.

 

[TheRumble]

You know what‘s funny about this post, outside of this place they’ve pretty much figured Dubas out. Where are these bastions of intelligent discourse heaping praise on his accomplishments? They don’t exist, apart from fan boys littered across all social media.

Cogntiive bias and logical fallacies, all these big concepts that are easily turned around. It’s just puffed up word salad.

Nobody heaps praise on Dubas because he hasn't done anything to deserve it. I think he's been a good, not great GM.

There is a zone in between praise and thinking he's the worst GM in the league.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You know what‘s funny about this post, outside of this place they’ve pretty much figured Dubas out. Where are these bastions of intelligent discourse heaping praise on his accomplishments? They don’t exist, apart from fan boys littered across all social media.

Cogntiive bias and logical fallacies, all these big concepts that are easily turned around. It’s just puffed up word salad.

I'm going to guess it's the result of one poster that is omnipresent in every page of every thread on the subject.

 

[DarkKnight]

Nobody heaps praise on Dubas because he hasn't done anything to deserve it. I think he's been a good, not great GM.

There is a zone in between praise and thinking he's the worst GM in the league.

You inadvertently admitted in another comment he basically had the core inherited (minus JT) which is the hardest thing to acquire, the top end stars. Given that envious position he was gifted, its hard to see his performance as anything better than “meh”, given the results. I’ve cut him slack for the cap not going up, which any sane GM would have banked on. I’ve liked some trades and said so here, ditto some picks. So that falls into this “zone” you’ve arbitrarily put forward. The vast majority here don’t argue he’s the “worst GM in the league”, that’s exaggeration. Look at this thread title and ask yourself which group here is interested in facts and which has an agenda? Much of the Dubas “hate” is really just countering the GM fanboys who insist on polishing every move to make him look good. That isn’t reality and it warps the whole discourse here.

Dubas isn’t the worst, but he certainly hasn’t been great to date and to my mind his track record is very spotty and deserves critical inspection. It’s sport, and no amount of convenient metrics change losing, that’s how it goes, and to argue otherwise is a loser mentality that frankly deserves to be mocked.

 

[TheRumble]

You inadvertently admitted in another comment he basically had the core inherited (minus JT) which is the hardest thing to acquire, the top end stars. Given that envious position he was gifted, its hard to see his performance as anything better than “meh”, given the results. I’ve cut him slack for the cap not going up, which any sane GM would have banked on. I’ve liked some trades and said so here, ditto some picks. So that falls into this “zone” you’ve arbitrarily put forward. The vast majority here don’t argue he’s the “worst GM in the league”, that’s exaggeration. Look at this thread title and ask yourself which group here is interested in facts and which has an agenda? Much of the Dubas “hate” is really just countering the GM fanboys who insist on polishing every move to make him look good. That isn’t reality and it warps the whole discourse here.

Dubas isn’t the worst, but he certainly hasn’t been great to date and to my mind he’s track record is very spotty and deserves critical inspection. It’s sport, and no amount of convenient metrics change losing, that’s how it goes, and to argue otherwise is a loser mentality that frankly deserves to be mocked.

GMs don't play the games.

The 20-21 Leafs lost to Montreal because Matthews and Marner didn't show up and Tavares got injured despite getting multipoint games from Nylander, Kerfoot, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot and Spezza and Jack Campbell having better stats that series than Carey Price? What should have Dubas done?

The 21-22 Leafs lost because of a called back goal in Game 7 and Tampa's minimum wage players outperformed our minimum wage players. Outside of Game 4, our depth didn't score. But the core 5 accounted for every single point in the final 3 games. What should Dubas have done?

 

[Nineteen67]

Because that would be stupid.

You got a core where 3 of the 5 guys are under the age of 25 still that regularly makes the playoffs and has regular season success. You don't blow up a team like that because it's extremely hard to rebuild. They don't even do that in the NBA which is a min-max league. People don't realize how fortunate the Leafs were to go from perennial basement team to where they are now as fast as they did.

Learn how other sports work. It's not a video game.

Despite what you suggested, the only thing to do wasn’t actually the only thing to do!

 

[DarkKnight]

GMs don't play the games.

The 20-21 Leafs lost to Montreal because Matthews and Marner didn't show up and Tavares got injured despite getting multipoint games from Nylander, Kerfoot, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot and Spezza and Jack Campbell having better stats that series than Carey Price? What should have Dubas done?

The 21-22 Leafs lost because of a called back goal in Game 7 and Tampa's minimum wage players outperformed our minimum wage players. Outside of Game 4, our depth didn't score. But the core 5 accounted for every single point in the final 3 games. What should Dubas have done?

You just proved my point. Cheers.

 

[TheRumble]

Despite what you suggested, the only thing to do wasn’t actually the only thing to do!

Get some hooked on phonics dude. You can't read what I'm saying.

 

[Nineteen67]

GMs don't play the games.

The 20-21 Leafs lost to Montreal because Matthews and Marner didn't show up and Tavares got injured despite getting multipoint games from Nylander, Kerfoot, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot and Spezza and Jack Campbell having better stats that series than Carey Price? What should have Dubas done?

The 21-22 Leafs lost because of a called back goal in Game 7 and Tampa's minimum wage players outperformed our minimum wage players. Outside of Game 4, our depth didn't score. But the core 5 accounted for every single point in the final 3 games. What should Dubas have done?

They don’t lose because of one specific event that happens. Lack of commitment from a few players puts them in a situation. Until they get playoff effort and sacrifice from all the “core”, they don’t deserve to win.

 

[Nineteen67]

Get some hooked on phonics dude. You can't read what I'm saying.

We know what you were saying. You agreed, but had to be hyperbolic.

 

[Apex Predator]

I'm going to guess it's the result of one poster that is omnipresent in every page of every thread on the subject.

There are a few more than that one poster. They’ve just taken the summer off. I’m sure we will see them when the season starts telling us how great Dubas is and he has no fault becuase it was all Lou’s fault.

 

[Racer88]

GMs don't play the games.

The 20-21 Leafs lost to Montreal because Matthews and Marner didn't show up and Tavares got injured despite getting multipoint games from Nylander, Kerfoot, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot and Spezza and Jack Campbell having better stats that series than Carey Price? What should have Dubas done?

The 21-22 Leafs lost because of a called back goal in Game 7 and Tampa's minimum wage players outperformed our minimum wage players. Outside of Game 4, our depth didn't score. But the core 5 accounted for every single point in the final 3 games. What should Dubas have done?

Maybe Dubas should have gotten better minim wage players. Maybe if he was better at evaluating players we would have maybe won a round by now

 

[TheRumble]

Maybe Dubas should have gotten better minim wage players. Maybe if he was better at evaluating players we would have maybe won a round by now

Minimum wage players are unpredictable. That's why Devante Smith Pelly went from playoff hero to out of the league in less than a season.

If you could reasonably predict which minimum wage players would perform come playoff time you would be the greatest GM in the history of the sport since you'd be able to build a Cup winning team with a bottom 6 that cost $6 million dollars.