Confirmed with Link: Deryk Engelland - 3 year deal worth $2.9M AAV

[SmellOfVictory]

This was a bad signing. I think anyone that's not kidding themselves knows it... But at the end of the day, this signing does nothing at all for our future; except maybe pushes Calgary closer to getting one of the big names at the draft next year.

My circuits might just be fried for the amount of horrible this organization has put us through in the past twenty years (outside of a great playoff run, and some hope the season after); so that in retrospect I'm just like 'meh'.

At least we're not bringing back the Joker for a round 2 (and I actually liked Olli), or trading away our only great draft pick for a bunch of spare parts (3/4 are no longer even in the NHL... and this is only 4 years ago!), or getting hot for one month and giving the fans hope of a playoff birth, just to **** the bed in the last month of the season

Who knows, Engelland can maybe find a new gear in Calgary; on the radio he was saying they were promising him some PK time, etc... Who knows (I mean, I think most of us kind of know, but I don't want some of the more fanboy posters to be like 'How dare you?!')

I'm certainly thankful that we're at the point where the worst thing during an offseason is a single bad short-term contract for a depth player, that's for sure.

 

[Remember2004]

Gotta protect your goalie from getting shelled, though.

Pay me 1/4 of that cap hit and I will do that...

 

[Anglesmith]

Pay me 1/4 of that cap hit and I will do that...

I feel like you may have quoted me out of context, given what I was replying to at the time.

 

[Lunatik]

Its hilarious a bunch of people debating and putting down Engelland's contract who have never really paid attention to him, when right now in the Brandon Sutter thread some Pens fans are defending his contract because some Oiler fan brought it up to justify Boyd Gordon's contract. I've seen someone say he is only 400k overpaid, that he is better than people think, that he deserved more minutes than he got in Pittsburgh, that he will be a good penalty killer... etc.

Usually fans turn on former players when they leave, so this really caught my eye. He really sounds like he was a fan favorite there. I just hate that heis already starting to be a whipping boy before even stepping on the ice because people don't understand market value, leverage or supply and demand.

 

[MuffinMerc]

I'm not sure how that contradicts what I said.

You said the problem with SOB was...

Problem with SOB was that he was plenty aggressive, and wanted to shove guys, but he never caught up to them until after the whistle. He spent a lot of time chasing and very little time actually hitting.

...which was not a problem.

 

[Anglesmith]

You said the problem with SOB was...



...which was not a problem.

You didn't find it a problem that SOB spent all his energy chasing after people and never found his position? I thought it was a huge reason he kept picking the puck out of his net.

 

[MuffinMerc]

You didn't find it a problem that SOB spent all his energy chasing after people and never found his position? I thought it was a huge reason he kept picking the puck out of his net.

That's not what you said the first time. You said...
He spent a lot of time chasing and very little time actually hitting.


SOB just sucks at defending. It's not just one thing or another with him; he was just a bad defencemen.

 

[Lunatik]

he's gone, can you complain about someone relevant now?

 

[Anglesmith]

he's gone, can you complain about someone relevant now?

Like Engelland?

 

[MuffinMerc]

he's gone, can you complain about someone relevant now?

No. It's the off season and we're running out of things to talk about.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Does Engelland have a good contract, no. Can he be a useful player for us, I think he can.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Its hilarious a bunch of people debating and putting down Engelland's contract who have never really paid attention to him, when right now in the Brandon Sutter thread some Pens fans are defending his contract because some Oiler fan brought it up to justify Boyd Gordon's contract. I've seen someone say he is only 400k overpaid, that he is better than people think, that he deserved more minutes than he got in Pittsburgh, that he will be a good penalty killer... etc.

Usually fans turn on former players when they leave, so this really caught my eye. He really sounds like he was a fan favorite there. I just hate that heis already starting to be a whipping boy before even stepping on the ice because people don't understand market value, leverage or supply and demand.

There's nothing about any of that, that I don't understand. I don't see the need for Engelland at all. The Flames had their top 5 dmen under contract already, and the 6/7 spots could have gone to Cundari, Wotherspoon, or really anyone. Heck, maybe some random dude out of the SEL.

I'd much rather trust objective measures of a player's ability than the opinions of a bunch of fans who could well be three beers deep by the end of the first period of the games they're watching. Do you honestly think any fan watches hockey and pays explicit attention to the work of a bottom pairing dman? Or do you think they catch bits and pieces of him when the puck happens to be nearby or he's fighting someone? I trust the numbers, which do not paint a pretty picture of Engelland from a results perspective. If you disagree with that premise, then we're just going to have to disagree on a fundamental level.

I'm glad you want to give him a fair shake and wait to see how he performs for the Flames. If he does somehow do well, I'm certainly willing to change my tune. But there is a wealth of evidence that he was basically a waste of money (again, from an on-ice perspective. Maybe he's the greatest teacher and motivator of all time, and the team will benefit from that, but there's no way for us to know that side of it).

 

[Guido Sarducci]

The term and amount are both head scratchers for a 32 year old with only 242 NHL games and has never made much more than the league minimum. (yes, I understand how leverage works)

Who cares though. Butler, Smith and SOB are all gone. This makes the Flames better. He fills a need. The need was to get rid of those 3 guys. The Flames got better.

I'm gonna watch him play a few games before I crap all over him.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

The term and amount are both head scratchers for a 32 year old with only 242 NHL games and has never made much more than the league minimum. (yes, I understand how leverage works)

Who cares though. Butler, Smith and SOB are all gone. This makes the Flames better. He fills a need. The need was to get rid of those 3 guys. The Flames got better.

I'm gonna watch him play a few games before I crap all over him.

This alone deserves a handclap gif.

I also will reserve judgement, but because of his ability and paycheque, I can already guarantee he is the new whipping boy. Hopefully not tho.

 

[tmurfin]

I'm still fine with it. We're rebuilding, gotta hit that floor. Also, I have a huge bias for face punchers. Sooo yah

 

[The Gnome]

There's nothing about any of that, that I don't understand. I don't see the need for Engelland at all. The Flames had their top 5 dmen under contract already, and the 6/7 spots could have gone to Cundari, Wotherspoon, or really anyone. Heck, maybe some random dude out of the SEL.

I'd much rather trust objective measures of a player's ability than the opinions of a bunch of fans who could well be three beers deep by the end of the first period of the games they're watching. Do you honestly think any fan watches hockey and pays explicit attention to the work of a bottom pairing dman? Or do you think they catch bits and pieces of him when the puck happens to be nearby or he's fighting someone? I trust the numbers, which do not paint a pretty picture of Engelland from a results perspective. If you disagree with that premise, then we're just going to have to disagree on a fundamental level.

I'm glad you want to give him a fair shake and wait to see how he performs for the Flames. If he does somehow do well, I'm certainly willing to change my tune. But there is a wealth of evidence that he was basically a waste of money (again, from an on-ice perspective. Maybe he's the greatest teacher and motivator of all time, and the team will benefit from that, but there's no way for us to know that side of it).

The bolded I do not agree with at all. We don't have a big, mean dman on our blueline or in our system that is NHL ready. Last year we were probably the softest blueline in the league. Even SOB didn't provide that sandpaper we were all hoping for. Although in my mind SOB was more of pest when he had his best years. Engelland is a true tough guy, he'll throw some cross-checks in front of our goalies and knock some teeth out. I wouldn't underate what that does for a backend. I for one cannot wait to see that, and opposing teams will hate playing in front of our net.

Now, I really don't think Engelland is anything more then a bottom pairing guy (or a #7 on a good team), but he serves a purpose. He's overpaid quite a bit, but it means nothing to us as fans. The only thing it hurts is our owners wallets.

On a side note, Engelland is pretty quick for a big guy. I don't think he'll have a hard time adjusting to Hartley's uptempo system. But if people are expecting big time defensive minutes or offensive production out of him they'll surly be dissapointed. He is what he is, people should keep their expectations in check. Treliving wanted him bad and so did a number of other GMs. The contract reflects that.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

The bolded I do not agree with at all. We don't have a big, mean dman on our blueline or in our system that is NHL ready. Last year we were probably the softest blueline in the league. Even SOB didn't provide that sandpaper we were all hoping for. Although in my mind SOB was more of pest when he had his best years. Engelland is a true tough guy, he'll throw some cross-checks in front of our goalies and knock some teeth out. I wouldn't underate what that does for a backend. I for one cannot wait to see that, and opposing teams will hate playing in front of our net.

Now, I really don't think Engelland is anything more then a bottom pairing guy (or a #7 on a good team), but he serves a purpose. He's overpaid quite a bit, but it means nothing to us as fans. The only thing it hurts is our owners wallets.

On a side note, Engelland is pretty quick for a big guy. I don't think he'll have a hard time adjusting to Hartley's uptempo system. But if people are expecting big time defensive minutes or offensive production out of him they'll surly be dissapointed. He is what he is, people should keep their expectations in check. Treliving wanted him bad and so did a number of other GMs. The contract reflects that.

This is a good post, I agree with everything you said. The one thing though (and I think this is what you meant to say), Engelland is not quick, but for a guy his size he's an above average skater. This does have the potential to be a negative signing, but 100% what Engelland provides is something we are absolutely missing on our backend. We have no one that can do what he does.

Sieloff may be able to provide that next year, and Kanzig down the road, but as of right now there is no one and with having so many kids in our lineup this season, someone like Engelland was a priority to acquire IMO.

 

[Lunatik]

The bolded I do not agree with at all. We don't have a big, mean dman on our blueline or in our system that is NHL ready. Last year we were probably the softest blueline in the league. Even SOB didn't provide that sandpaper we were all hoping for. Although in my mind SOB was more of pest when he had his best years. Engelland is a true tough guy, he'll throw some cross-checks in front of our goalies and knock some teeth out. I wouldn't underate what that does for a backend. I for one cannot wait to see that, and opposing teams will hate playing in front of our net.

Now, I really don't think Engelland is anything more then a bottom pairing guy (or a #7 on a good team), but he serves a purpose. He's overpaid quite a bit, but it means nothing to us as fans. The only thing it hurts is our owners wallets.

On a side note, Engelland is pretty quick for a big guy. I don't think he'll have a hard time adjusting to Hartley's uptempo system. But if people are expecting big time defensive minutes or offensive production out of him they'll surly be dissapointed. He is what he is, people should keep their expectations in check. Treliving wanted him bad and so did a number of other GMs. The contract reflects that.

Engelland has already shown himself to be better than a #7 on a good team. But the rest of your post is quite accurate. Although from listening to Aaron Ward and some Penguin fans we might be shocked (mostly due to lowered lexpectations) at how solid he is defensively and on the PK

 

[Savoie92]

2.9mil for 3 years isn't that bad considering it is Free Agency prices get jacked up. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt and see what hes got before tearing him apart. He played on a team with a coach that didn't know how to manage assets very well look at Iggy on the penguins then Iggy on the bruins. Let him have a chance to play and see what he can do. its not like we are going to be up against the cap in those 3 years in all fairness we will need to hit the bottom

 

[Volica]

2.9mil for 3 years isn't that bad considering it is Free Agency prices get jacked up. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt and see what hes got before tearing him apart. He played on a team with a coach that didn't know how to manage assets very well look at Iggy on the penguins then Iggy on the bruins. Let him have a chance to play and see what he can do. its not like we are going to be up against the cap in those 3 years in all fairness we will need to hit the bottom

Deryk should NOT, under any circumstances become Calgary's whipping boy.
I mean, the guy never even laced'em up for us yet. Who cares if he got a nice big paycheck; we don't know what we have quite yet.

I have confidence that Burkie and Treliving know what they're doing in regards to the picks and the signings they've gotten done so far. I'm certain they have an idea what this guy can bring to us.

 

[Lunatik]

Deryk should NOT, under any circumstances become Calgary's whipping boy.
I mean, the guy never even laced'em up for us yet. Who cares if he got a nice big paycheck; we don't know what we have quite yet.

I have confidence that Burkie and Treliving know what they're doing in regards to the picks and the signings they've gotten done so far. I'm certain they have an idea what this guy can bring to us.

That's how Flames fans work though.

Overpaid - Whipping boy
Traded for Popular player - Whipping boy

 

[FLAMESFAN]

That's how Flames fans work though.

Overpaid - Whipping boy
Traded for Popular player - Whipping boy

Rob Niedermeyer was one of the first. I hated that "special" moniker he had.
He got the fans wrath on here for everything. He was a decent player though, but slightly overpaid.

 

[Savoie92]

Deryk should NOT, under any circumstances become Calgary's whipping boy.
I mean, the guy never even laced'em up for us yet. Who cares if he got a nice big paycheck; we don't know what we have quite yet.

I have confidence that Burkie and Treliving know what they're doing in regards to the picks and the signings they've gotten done so far. I'm certain they have an idea what this guy can bring to us.

i 100% agree burke and treliving and the scouts know more then anyone on theses boards so if they believe he will be good for us i trust them

 

[Volica]

i 100% agree burke and treliving and the scouts know more then anyone on theses boards so if they believe he will be good for us i trust them

The people I honestly trust the least on these boards are the fans of players being moved, and pretty much everyone else (since they rarely watch that player play, there's a whole culture here where all people do is quickly look at the guys hockeydb; look at their HF rating and make their comment).

I happens a lot. I especially hate when our guys drink the cool-aid and start putting down guys before they even play.

 

[Lunatik]

Rob Niedermeyer was one of the first. I hated that "special" moniker he had.
He got the fans wrath on here for everything. He was a decent player though, but slightly overpaid.

Yeah I hated that too. He got it 2 fold too since he was overpaid and was traded for a fan favorite. Much like Matt Stajan, first he gets it for being the best player coming back in the Phaneuf trade then because he was overpaid. It took Stajan alomst his entire 4 year extension to get off the fans **** list