Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Slightly OT but apparently I hung out with Brass's cousin last night here in Orlando...pretty fun guy and said brass is happy in cbus...
OP must be thinking we owe them one after the Leclaire +2nd / Vermette deal.
At the risk of being ridiculed by the experts on the board, I am still mystified as to how we solve our goaiie problems. We don't want to trade for the Bishops, Schneiders, Berniers, of the world because they aren't established #1 goalies.
To me we either resign ourselves to a life of Bob's & Mase's or we roll the dice intelligently on a guy like Bishop if he is available.
if it costs Brass so be it. He will be an RFA after next season and i don't see him in the long range plans.
Don't bother to tell me I'm all wet; I figure I am, But i would love to hear how we solve the goalie situation without giving up assets and before we all grow old waiting for the prospects to develop.
And lets not forget that Brass is burning it up right now- projects out to 12 goals-40 pts and a whopping -32 over 82 games. Why give that up for a guy who could potentially be a goalie in the NHL for a long time to come?
All valid points.
I don't know much about Bishop,
but your points seem to bring out to concepts which the fanboys on this board fail to see:
That is the reality of Derek Brassard whether the Blue Jacket HFBoard "intelligentsia" think so or not.
All valid points.
I don't know much about Bishop, but your points seem to bring out three concepts which the fanboys on this board fail to see:
1) You have to give up something to get something.
2) Most perceive CBJ players to be significantly worth more than they really are.
3) Derek Brassard ain't much of an "asset". Someone called him a "4th liner" and the fanboys went crazy. Well, he wouldn't even be a 4rth liner on the non-elite Montreal Canadiens (Plekanec, Desharnais, Galchenyuk and Eller) and Brassard would be hard pressed to be a 3rd liner on most decent teams. That is the reality of Derek Brassard whether the Blue Jacket HFBoard "intelligentsia" think so or not.
If Brassard AND a few second round picks could be shipped for a goalie with reasonable #lG upside, then JK would have to be drunk not to make that move. It's more than #16 is realistically worth. Much more.
All valid points.
I don't know much about Bishop, but your points seem to bring out three concepts which the fanboys on this board fail to see:
1) You have to give up something to get something.
2) Most perceive CBJ players to be significantly worth more than they really are.
3) Derek Brassard ain't much of an "asset". Someone called him a "4th liner" and the fanboys went crazy. Well, he wouldn't even be a 4rth liner on the non-elite Montreal Canadiens (Plekanec, Desharnais, Galchenyuk and Eller) and Brassard would be hard pressed to be a 3rd liner on most decent teams. That is the reality of Derek Brassard whether the Blue Jacket HFBoard "intelligentsia" think so or not.
If Brassard AND a few second round picks could be shipped for a goalie with reasonable #lG upside, then JK would have to be drunk not to make that move. It's more than #16 is realistically worth. Much more.
We should keep looking at acquiring potential #1's goaltenders through trade. Drafting goalies is good, but its still a crapshoot. Yes, many great goalies were drafted by their teams. But they had no idea what they were getting. You are much, much more likely to end up with a guy who does nothing than get Pekka Rinne in the draft. You could spend half your draft choices on goalies for years and still end up with nothing.
We should keep looking at acquiring potential #1's goaltenders through trade. Drafting goalies is good, but its still a crapshoot. Yes, many great goalies were drafted by their teams. But they had no idea what they were getting. You are much, much more likely to end up with a guy who does nothing than get Pekka Rinne in the draft. You could spend half your draft choices on goalies for years and still end up with nothing.
Many more goalies are tweeners who show great promise, and are then acquired and foisted into the #1 role. Some bust (Lindback, maybe), some play Vezina worthy hockey (Anderson).
Personally I would do this deal:
Brassard and Foligno for Schneider.
Really??
Schneider GP 12 2.58 .912
Bob GP 14 2.59 .907
I don't see much difference much less at the cost of those two.
We should keep looking at acquiring potential #1's goaltenders through trade. Drafting goalies is good, but its still a crapshoot. Yes, many great goalies were drafted by their teams. But they had no idea what they were getting. You are much, much more likely to end up with a guy who does nothing than get Pekka Rinne in the draft. You could spend half your draft choices on goalies for years and still end up with nothing.
Many more goalies are tweeners who show great promise, and are then acquired and foisted into the #1 role. Some bust (Lindback, maybe), some play Vezina worthy hockey (Anderson).
Personally I would do this deal:
Brassard and Foligno for Schneider.
Is this a joke? You really didn't look at more than 12 games of stats?
In the last few years, Schneider's SP averages about .930, and .940 in 8 playoff games. If you want to be tough on him and subtract .01 for playing in front of Vancouver's defence, he would still have great numbers, much better than Bob even in Bob's best year.
True enough, but when you find that elite goalie, you don't need to replace him for a dozen years or so. And laying out significant assets to acquire a goalie who may be better than someone who was drafted a couple years ago and then ending up in a Vancouver-type situation isn't something that strikes me as desirable.
Personally, I ascribe to what Detroit did in the 1990s. Draft goalies and hope that one of them breaks through. But in the meantime, get a succession of guys who still have a couple of productive years left and churn through them while waiting to see what you have in the system. They had Osgood but never seemed to be sold on him...they went through Bob Essensa, Mike Vernon, Bill Ranford, Ken Wregget, Dominik Hasek, and Curtis Joseph in less than 10 years. The latter three all came after digging Manny Legace out of the IHL.
Detroit's been successful for 20 years despite lacking two things that everyone knows you have to have to be successful: a franchise goalie and an enforcer.
Until such time as one of these projected solutions proves himself to be a true starter over a period of time, that's all he is, a projected solution. That holds true for Schneider, Bernier, Bishop or Bobrovsky or any other flavor of the month.
I am not saying any one of these is any better than any other one, and indeed any of them may be "the one". But since we already have one of those why do we need to be spending assets to get another one.
I'll try and make my analysis of the tweener goalies as clear as possible.
Bobrovsky:
2012-13 Columbus .907 GP 14
2011-12 Philadelphia .899 29
2010-11 Philadelphia .915 54 Total 97
originally posted byMayor Bee
And yet he would be on the second line in clearly elite Chicago, ahead of Marcus Kruger, Dave Bolland, and Andrew Shaw. Unless you're arguing that non-elite Montreal is better than elite Chicago on the basis of players up the middle.
That's absolutely absurd. Barring the goalie return being someone like a 20-year-old Roberto Luongo (actual franchise upside and playing well in the NHL behind a poor team), moving Brassard and "a few" 2nd-round picks for someone like Ben Bishop goes right up there with the worst trade proposals that you'll find on that board.