Post-Game Talk: Defensive issues

[SupremeTeam16]

I couldnt agree more.
The top 6 is absolutely the issue and it starts with Connor and Leon.
That probably explains why this has been a problem through multiple coaching regimes.

If those 2 players decide to commit to the defensive part of the game this will become a formidable team in the playoffs. My concern is that this isnt something you can turn on like a light switch. It requires time and repetition.

I also dont believe for a second that Tippett, McLellan and Woodcroft havent bothered to try and coach that element into their game.

They’ve both shown the ability to do it. I kind of agree with you about not being able to switch it on but at the same time every year we see players and teams find that extra level and we see the hardcore attention to detail that’s required in playoff hockey in addition to the speed and physical play being ratcheted up. These are two of the smartest hockey players on the planet who understand the game at such a high level, they could both be selke finalists if they really wanted to. It’s about a shift in mindset and focus and that’s what can take time especially for two absolute offensive weapons like these two are and have had to be for the oilers for years but for this team to take the next step they’re really going to have to find that balance and trust that a shift to more responsible hockey helps the team more then trying to score as much as humanly possible. As dumb as this is going to sound, winning isn’t always about scoring the most.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don’t see a path for us to beat LA or Vegas especially. This was a Vegas team missing its 1-2 goalies and 5 regulars out of their lineup and they matched us for most of the game. If they get healthy, especially if Stones back, I think we have a chance but I don’t think we win.

LA is just simply a better team that we matchup against terribly.

With our goaltending I don’t think we stand a chance against either unless Skinner or Campbell suddenly are 0.920 goalies.

 

[Sra1974]

I don’t see a path for us to beat LA or Vegas especially. This was a Vegas team missing its 1-2 goalies and 5 regulars out of their lineup and they matched us for most of the game. If they get healthy, especially if Stones back, I think we have a chance but I don’t think we win.

LA is just simply a better team that we matchup against terribly.

With our goaltending I don’t think we stand a chance against either unless Skinner or Campbell suddenly are 0.920 goalies.

I’ve been as much of a suspect as anyone about this teams ability to compete for a cup. That said with 97 and 29 on your team I don‘t think we can say they didn’t stand a chance unless they get unworldly 920 save percentage. Those two go nuclear and I don‘t think they lose until the third round. But if a team shuts them down, yup it’s pretty much over.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I’ve been as much of a suspect as anyone about this teams ability to compete for a cup. That said with 97 and 29 on your team I don‘t think we can say they didn’t stand a chance unless they get unworldly 920 save percentage. Those two go nuclear and I don‘t think they lose until the third round. But if a team shuts them down, yup it’s pretty much over.

A worse LA team almost beat us WITH McDrai at the top of their game.

They don’t need to be shut down, they just have to outscore us which is quite easy with the majority of our defence and goaltending. I like Skinner but he looks like he is burning out and Campbell can’t even play agaisnt a bottom feeder without getting blown up.

 

[K1984]

Even Kane at 100% kind of beats the puck around and makes generally terrible decisions with it. His puck handling and passing skills honestly kind of suck and always have.

He overcomes these issues by doing a good job playing in straight lines and putting a focus on shooting, but the last two games in particular have been rancid. He has zero pop on the forecheck and has been MIA in front of the net which more or less renders him useless.

 

[AM]

Better now then in the second round.

 

[K1984]

Also, there is zero, absolutely nothing that justifies Yamamoto playing in the top 6 over Foegele. He sucked the life out of the top line tonight. We've all known this for weeks, but its 100% confirmed now.

Don't expect Woodcroft to change away from it though. It's one of his things that make zero sense.

Noticed this with Bouchard a lot, especially lately. He has pretty terrible footspeed to begin with but his decision making (beyond the lackadaisical nature of it) leaves him caught in situations where he either doesn't appear to notice that he's making a bad pinch, or isn't capable of recovering once he does realize it.

Not really seeing a lot of positive development in his game at the moment.

I've also noticed this repeatedly. He has zero instinct for identifying when he's lost a step and needs to turn to keep up.

 

[guymez]

A worse LA team almost beat us WITH McDrai at the top of their game.

They don’t need to be shut down, they just have to outscore us which is quite easy with the majority of our defence and goaltending. I like Skinner but he looks like he is burning out and Campbell can’t even play agaisnt a bottom feeder without getting blown up.

Nurse was injured and so was Draisaitl so he most certainly was not at the top of his game. The Oilers now have an improved defense with the addition of Ekholm and a much improved bottom 6 as well.
The biggest question mark is in net.

Now I am suggesting that LA is a good match up for this team...just that this team is much better than they were the last team they played LA in the playoffs.

 

[Kepler 186f]

How in the world are some of you arriving at the idea that Nurse had a bad game?

He was hard matched against the Vegas 1st line, outscored them 2-1, was a plus 1, assisted on the tying goal (and that goal does not happen without the play he made) and he manhandled Eichel more than once.

Before any of you launch off that he made mistakes, save it. All Dmen do. It is how they recover from them.

 

[alphahelix]

Even Kane at 100% kind of beats the puck around and makes generally terrible decisions with it. His puck handling and passing skills honestly kind of suck and always have.

He overcomes these issues by doing a good job playing in straight lines and putting a focus on shooting, but the last two games in particular have been rancid. He has zero pop on the forecheck and has been MIA in front of the net which more or less renders him useless.

The top 6 wingers have been rancid and Lavoie is popping off. IMO this Arizona game would be a good 1 off to see if he can do better. They really should give him a game, I don’t think he is 100% ready but with an adrenaline fueled 1-game call-up he might be able to outperform several of the current wingers With the way they’re dogging it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Due to a lack of time I have been selectively reading posts so I have not been closely following your discussion with other posters.
Now...that being said...it was essentially a 2 on 1 with Eichel... an extremely good player with a very deceptive shot. That happened as a result of Bouchard inexplicably going to sleep on the play just outside the Vegas blueline allowing the pseudo 2 on 1 (and a clear pathway to the net for Eichel) to happen.
Could Skinner have been more (net) aware on the first shot on goal? Sure...an argument could be made for that. He did however make some really strong saves the rest of the way. Lets all remember as well...Skinner is a rookie goalie. We all know why the team is forced to rely on a rookie goalie and it is not at all fair to Skinner and his development as an NHL starter.
Ultimately though it was one play and it didnt define the game IMO.
Both teams scored on their first shot on goal. There was +95% of the game left to be played.

What defined the game for me was seeing (over and over again) the defensive misreads and/or the complete lack of awareness of Oilers players. That doesnt just go for defensive play...it also includes poor line changes.
Kane was the poster boy for poor defensive play and it was hyper evident on the Vegas OT goal.
Kane was absolutely lost on that goal and it created a 10 bell scoring chance that Roy made good on.
Roy was 3 feet in front of Skinner and had 2 or 3 seconds to make a play.
Inexcusable play by a veteran player like Kane. Embarrassing actually.

Even Draisaitl (who played an excellent game) on the second Vegas goal wasnt sure who to check and ultimately did nothing more than put up a perfect screen. Skinner didnt see a thing on that goal.

The difference between Vegas (LA, Boston...insert contending team) and the Oilers (aside from the disparity in elite talent) is that Vegas plays their system in such a way that it lends itself to being consistent. They rarely sacrifice defence for offence.
The Oilers on the other hand play their system is such a way that they defer to offence at the price of defence far too often. They simply dont value the effort required to play good defence enough.
All season long there have been countless games where the Oiler would have a 3 goal lead and then neglect to buckle down the game and win by 1 goal...sometimes in OT. Some games were even lost in this way.
The bottom line...very few games this season have been made safe because of a strong and consistent defensive effort.
That IMO is a significant problem.

I don't disagree with much of this. Its possible to think that there are concerns with how the team plays and the chances that they give up and that they also don't hve the goaltending to make up for miscues, lapses, blown coverages. At one point in this game the Oilers were outshooting Vegas 15-7 and the Oilers were losing 2-1. Vegas also had two other goalposts in that time frame. Vegas were really not sharp in the game either offensively. First two periods they were muffing shots, passing off shots, or skating to worse positions to release shots like Eichel did. Eichel actually took that 2 on 1 too wide, not sure why he did that, and ended up with a shot well outside of HDSC zone. He still scored.

In anycase if you follow my posting I have limited faith in the team gameplan and structure. I do feel its a concern the club cheats for offense. I've been banging that drum all season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

FMS

Its not just the question. Its that Spector and Matheson are nonstop trolls of the current club. Theres this notion in the sports media here where the older beat reporters just look up to the Glory years team and with the conclusion that the current side never adds up. So that the reporters do disservice to the present club just in their attitude towards it and love to pick at it, find things wrong with it. They seem to enjoy the losses. Its not that the question is any accident, its that the purpose is to pick at the players. One can detect school marmish tut tut tone from Spector like he's talking to some kid always failing the same subject. Not as if he's speaking to one of the best players in hockey.

 

[K1984]

Its not just the question. Its that Spector and Matheson are nonstop trolls of the current club. Theres this notion in the sports media here where the older beat reporters just look up to the Glory years team and with the conclusion that the current side never adds up. So that the reporters do disservice to the present club just in their attitude towards it and love to pick at it, find things wrong with it. They seem to enjoy the losses. Its not that the question is any accident, its that the purpose is to pick at the players. One can detect school marmish tut tut tone from Spector like he's talking to some kid always failing the same subject. Not as if he's speaking to one of the best players in hockey.

This is one of the worst things about Spector among a very lengthy list.

There's always a snark in his tone that makes his dumb questions that much more odious. He's the biggest worm in Edmonton media by some margin.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don’t see a path for us to beat LA or Vegas especially. This was a Vegas team missing its 1-2 goalies and 5 regulars out of their lineup and they matched us for most of the game. If they get healthy, especially if Stones back, I think we have a chance but I don’t think we win.

LA is just simply a better team that we matchup against terribly.

With our goaltending I don’t think we stand a chance against either unless Skinner or Campbell suddenly are 0.920 goalies.

I don't think Vegas' 1 or 2 goalie makes some of the saves Brossoit did against us.

Its not just the question. Its that Spector and Matheson are nonstop trolls of the current club. Theres this notion in the sports media here where the older beat reporters just look up to the Glory years team and with the conclusion that the current side never adds up. So that the reporters do disservice to the present club just in their attitude towards it and love to pick at it, find things wrong with it. They seem to enjoy the losses. Its not that the question is any accident, its that the purpose is to pick at the players. One can detect school marmish tut tut tone from Spector like he's talking to some kid always failing the same subject. Not as if he's speaking to one of the best players in hockey.

They should almost just stop responding. Give them "I don't know, great question" as the response for every question they ask.

How in the world are some of you arriving at the idea that Nurse had a bad game?

He was hard matched against the Vegas 1st line, outscored them 2-1, was a plus 1, assisted on the tying goal (and that goal does not happen without the play he made) and he manhandled Eichel more than once.

Before any of you launch off that he made mistakes, save it. All Dmen do. It is how they recover from them.

Nurse could have a perfect game and somebody here would be bellyaching about something that he did.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think Vegas' 1 or 2 goalie makes some of the saves Brossoit did against us.


They should almost just stop responding. Give them "I don't know, great question" as the response for every question they ask.


Nurse could have a perfect game and somebody here would be bellyaching about something that he did.

My own response is "Thats nice". Doesn't give the critic quite what they are looking for.

 

[North Cole]

Its not just the question. Its that Spector and Matheson are nonstop trolls of the current club. Theres this notion in the sports media here where the older beat reporters just look up to the Glory years team and with the conclusion that the current side never adds up. So that the reporters do disservice to the present club just in their attitude towards it and love to pick at it, find things wrong with it. They seem to enjoy the losses. Its not that the question is any accident, its that the purpose is to pick at the players. One can detect school marmish tut tut tone from Spector like he's talking to some kid always failing the same subject. Not as if he's speaking to one of the best players in hockey.

I think the problem is these guys drank the kool-aid and now that they don't get anymore kool-aid, they are filled to brim with resentment instead. It's fine that you develop relationships with players as a beat writer, you're in the locker room every game for 30 years, that's honestly to be expected.

However, somewhere along the line, these guys actually lost sight of the line in the sand - the team is the team, and you're always going to be a beat writer. Player relationships with media are a lot more professional now than they used to be, and I don't blame the players, some dumb shit happens and next thing you know you get crucified all over the internet. Easier to just not be friends with the media. Instead of accepting that evolution, these writers seem to have developed an unhealthy sense of shared accomplishment that came from all those cups. Now that this team isn't winning and players have clearly shut down any chance of them building the same rapport they had with the Dynasty team, they hate them for it.

Deep down Spec and Matheson know that if this team wins a cup, they aren't going to get their share of the spotlight they otherwise would have had. Instead of accepting that your just a f***ing beat writer who's job is to report, they become insidious guttersnipes that relish in tearing down players that want nothing to do with them...which lo-and-behold, makes the players want even less to do with them.

 

[guymez]

I don't disagree with much of this. Its possible to think that there are concerns with how the team plays and the chances that they give up and that they also don't hve the goaltending to make up for miscues, lapses, blown coverages. At one point in this game the Oilers were outshooting Vegas 15-7 and the Oilers were losing 2-1. Vegas also had two other goalposts in that time frame. Vegas were really not sharp in the game either offensively. First two periods they were muffing shots, passing off shots, or skating to worse positions to release shots like Eichel did. Eichel actually took that 2 on 1 too wide, not sure why he did that, and ended up with a shot well outside of HDSC zone. He still scored.

In anycase if you follow my posting I have limited faith in the team gameplan and structure. I do feel its a concern the club cheats for offense. I've been banging that drum all season.

I agree...the score (for the most part) flattered the Oilers. They really didnt deserve to win that game.

In terms of the structure...far too often this team doesnt play with consistent structure. At this point in time I am quite convinced that it isnt the coaching because this lack of structured play has existed despite a carousel of coaches. The problem isnt with the bottom 6 either The elephant in the room, as I see it, begins with McDavid and Draisaitl. Both of those players cheat for offence far too much and when they are in the D zone they ad-lib with their coverage. They have been doing that for years now and it throws off their linemates assignments because there is little to no consistency.
Watching the top 6 in the D zone most times is nothing short of a shit show.

That isnt an issue for most if not all of the other contending teams.
The top 6 on teams like Boston, Vegas, Carolina, and even Colorado are reliable at both ends of the ice.
Not with this team though and if they cant get that straightened out by mid April then I dont see this team doing much in the playoffs.
Out scoring their defensive short comings has been this teams MO for a long time now but it isnt a formula for playoff success IMO.

 

[Stoneman89]

I think the problem is these guys drank the kool-aid and now that they don't get anymore kool-aid, they are filled to brim with resentment instead. It's fine that you develop relationships with players as a beat writer, you're in the locker room every game for 30 years, that's honestly to be expected.

However, somewhere along the line, these guys actually lost sight of the line in the sand - the team is the team, and you're always going to be a beat writer. Player relationships with media are a lot more professional now than they used to be, and I don't blame the players, some dumb shit happens and next thing you know you get crucified all over the internet. Easier to just not be friends with the media. Instead of accepting that evolution, these writers seem to have developed an unhealthy sense of shared accomplishment that came from all those cups. Now that this team isn't winning and players have clearly shut down any chance of them building the same rapport they had with the Dynasty team, they hate them for it.

Deep down Spec and Matheson know that if this team wins a cup, they aren't going to get their share of the spotlight they otherwise would have had. Instead of accepting that your just a f***ing beat writer who's job is to report, they become insidious guttersnipes that relish in tearing down players that want nothing to do with them...which lo-and-behold, makes the players want even less to do with them.

Does anyone out there honestly believe for one second that Jim Matheson would be a "Hall of Fame " sportswriter if Gretzky never came here and the Oilers were just another non-descript team that entered the NHL back in 1979 and more or less just stayed that way?