Speculation: Defensive Dilemma

[Jag68Sid87]

Tell me why you think he's a 3rd pairing defenseman.

Because he's behind Letang and Martin???

 

[Fire Shero*]

This dilemma could be resolved if gasssp Shero drafts some forwards this summer and takes a year off from drafting dmen. I know this would require Shero to be locked in a closet for the draft weekend.

 

[IcedCapp]

Tell me why you think he's a 3rd pairing defenseman.

because he plays on the 3rd pair.

/thread

 

[billybudd]

Am I the only one that wants to see Engelland resigned? He’s cheap, versatile, and I don’t think it is in anybody’s best interest to have Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, etc. watching from the press box. Although, I guess that is better than losing any of those guys if they are waiver eligible next year.

Realistically, I would like to see this next year:

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Scuderi
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

I don’t expect there to be any changes for the rest of this year. They will roll with Martin, Orpik, Scuderi, Niskanen, Maatta, and then Letang/Bortuzzo depending on Letang’s health. They might move Despres or one of the other young guys (I hope not), but they aren’t going to mess with the NHL defensive corps unless they have to.

Realistically, Engo's something like the 11th or 12th best D in the system now.

He'd be considerably closer to deserving a roster spot at wing, but there's the tiny problem that he seems to think he's required to take staged fights with supergoons when he's not on D. He won't last long if he keeps indulging the John Scotts and Brain McGrattans in the sideshow stuff.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Realistically, Engo's something like the 11th or 12th best D in the system now.

He'd be considerably closer to deserving a roster spot at wing, but there's the tiny problem that he seems to think he's required to take staged fights with supergoons when he's not on D. He won't last long if he keeps indulging the John Scotts and Brain McGrattans in the sideshow stuff.

Engelland is the perfect 12th/13th forward/7th defenseman on this team. We constantly see multiple injuries every season, he's pretty healthy, can be relied upon to take a regular 4th line shift, fights, and in case (really more like when) a defenseman gets injured in a game or gets a penalty, he can slide back and fill in temporarily till the game or penalty is over. Plus if he's the #7 defensemen that means one of our young defensemen aren't being wasted in the press box.

The only issue is how Bylsma would use him.

Martin - Letang
Maatta/Despres - Niskanen
Maatta/Despres - Bortuzzo
Engelland
(AHL) Dumoulin
(AHL) Samuelson
(AHL) Harrington
(AHL) Pouliot

+ a time machine to stop Shero from wasting cap dollars on an aging defenseman and instead use it to improve the bottom 6

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I might be in the minority, but I like the Maatta/Niskanen pairing and wouldn't be upset to see Nisky return. Orpik is the only defenseman on the current roster that I'd be pissed to see back next season.

Scuderi - Letang
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Niskanen

With Bortuzzo and Engelland around as the 7th/8th defensemen (or Engelland can be retained to be the 12th/13th forward).

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The only issue is how Bylsma would use him.

That's an issue with the entire roster, really. It should be implied in every post, every thread, every year.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'm going to go out on a limb here too and predict Maatta is our best defenseman by this time next season. Or at least challenging Martin to be.

 

[Michael8771*]

I'm going to go out on a limb here too and predict Maatta is our best defenseman by this time next season.

If not sooner.

 

[djt153]

I'm going to go out on a limb here too and predict Maatta is our best defenseman by this time next season. Or at least challenging Martin to be.

is that predicated on martin becoming more average, maatta continuing to improve, or a bit of both? option 1 seems fairly likely, with martin entering the playoffs as a 34 year old.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I'm going to go out on a limb here too and predict Maatta is our best defenseman by this time next season. Or at least challenging Martin to be.

Really hoping there is no sophmore slump in his case. Kid is awesome

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I'm going to go out on a limb here too and predict Maatta is our best defenseman by this time next season. Or at least challenging Martin to be.

I'm not going out on that limb with you. He's a good young player, but his skating isn't where it needs to be, and he will get walked about three times a game against first lines. He needs to improve his board work and his strength in front of the net. Martin will be our best defenseman now, and for a couple of years assuming he stays.

Maatta just needs time, but he can't be asked to be on our top pairing now or next year, or you'll ruin the kid.

 

[MrBurghundy]

is that predicated on martin becoming more average, maatta continuing to improve, or a bit of both? option 1 seems fairly likely, with martin entering the playoffs as a 34 year old.

Maybe a bit of both, but from watching him grow this season, to watching him being maybe one of the best defenseman for a strong Team Finland... The kid is going to be special. He's only going to be stronger after an offseason of working out and more mentally prepared after all he faced this season.

Plus his offensive game is really starting to shine, and unlike Letang, he actually knows when the right time to pinch is and when to get back.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'm not going out on that limb with you. He's a good young player, but his skating isn't where it needs to be, and he will get walked about three times a game against first lines. He needs to improve his board work and his strength in front of the net. Martin will be our best defenseman now, and for a couple of years assuming he stays.

Maatta just needs time, but he can't be asked to be on our top pairing now or next year, or you'll ruin the kid.

Well I acknowledge those deficiencies but that's why I'm going out on a limb .

I do think he has cut down on getting walked, and that is mainly due to his incredibly active stick and good positioning. He'll only get stronger and faster with offseason workouts.

You'll also notice I actually didn't have him on our top pair. I just said he'd be our best defenseman or challenging to be so. That has nothing to do with which pairing he's on.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Well I acknowledge those deficiencies but that's why I'm going out on a limb .

I do think he has cut down on getting walked, and that is mainly due to his incredibly active stick and good positioning. He'll only get stronger and faster with offseason workouts.

You'll also notice I actually didn't have him on our top pair. I just said he'd be our best defenseman or challenging to be so. That has nothing to do with which pairing he's on.

I'm looking forward to him getting more PP time now that Letang is out longer term. The kid has great offensive skills. And it's no small thing for a 19 year old to be on your 2nd pairing and get PP time. I can see him being our best 2 way D man as of next year though.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'm looking forward to him getting more PP time now that Letang is out longer term. The kid has great offensive skills. And it's no small thing for a 19 year old to be on your 2nd pairing and get PP time. I can see him being our best 2 way D man as of next year though.

So we're not THAT far off then. I'm just being a little more bold.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

I can't believe how many people are over-looking Orpik's 5 year extension he will be signing! haha

 

[Tweed]

Because he's behind Letang and Martin???

because he plays on the 3rd pair.

/thread

Just because that's where we play him, doesn't mean that's what he is. He's an asset that we invested in (buy low), and it would be stupid to let him walk for free (sell lower). He's proven, he fits, he performs, he has chemistry with his partner that we have high expectations and long-term plans for and now he needs to get paid. I'd rather find a way to make room for him, than hope and pray a prospect turns out to be able to fill his role better.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Just because that's where we play him, doesn't mean that's what he is. He's an asset that we invested in (buy low), and it would be stupid to let him walk for free (sell lower). He's proven, he fits, he performs, he has chemistry with his partner that we have high expectations and long-term plans for and now he needs to get paid. I'd rather find a way to make room for him, than hope and pray a prospect turns out to be able to fill his role better.

This is his first good season since his rookie year. That's not enough for me to invest a multi-year 4M+ contract in, especially considering our defensive depth. There really isn't a difference between "hoping and praying a prospect" turns out to be able to fill his role better and hoping and praying he can keep up the level of play he has portions of this season.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Just because that's where we play him, doesn't mean that's what he is. He's an asset that we invested in (buy low), and it would be stupid to let him walk for free (sell lower). He's proven, he fits, he performs, he has chemistry with his partner that we have high expectations and long-term plans for and now he needs to get paid. I'd rather find a way to make room for him, than hope and pray a prospect turns out to be able to fill his role better.

We have a 'prospect' in the AHL who's better than him, overall, and can't get in the lineup (for some stupid situation).

This isn't a typical situation, but if we let Niskanen go for free because he's getting bigger money elsewhere, so be it.

James Neal made that trade so much that Niskanen doesn't matter.

As for his partner's chemistry, Maatta also had chemistry with Bortuzzo earlier this season, he had chemistry with Harrington in the OHL, he has chemistry with Sami Salo with Team Finland.

Maatta is just good.

 

[Tweed]

This is his first good season since his rookie year. That's not enough for me to invest a multi-year 4M+ contract in, especially considering our defensive depth. There really isn't a difference between "hoping and praying a prospect" turns out to be able to fill his role better and hoping and praying he can keep up the level of play he has portions of this season.

I disagree. I think there's a difference. The difference is one has proven he can play at that level, the other hasn't.

We have a 'prospect' in the AHL who's better than him, overall, and can't get in the lineup (for some stupid situation).

This isn't a typical situation, but if we let Niskanen go for free because he's getting bigger money elsewhere, so be it.

James Neal made that trade so much that Niskanen doesn't matter.

As for his partner's chemistry, Maatta also had chemistry with Bortuzzo earlier this season, he had chemistry with Harrington in the OHL, he has chemistry with Sami Salo with Team Finland.

Maatta is just good.

The reason Despres can't get into the lineup has to do with his waiver eligibility, and asset management. That's about the best reason to keep a guy out of the lineup, if you have to keep a guy out of the lineup.

Aside from that, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Despres is better than Niskanen.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I disagree. I think there's a difference. The difference is one has proven he can play at that level, the other hasn't.



The reason Despres can't get into the lineup has to do with his waiver eligibility, and asset management. That's about the best reason to keep a guy out of the lineup, if you have to keep a guy out of the lineup.

Aside from that, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Despres is better than Niskanen.

Maybe at the moment but his upside should be fairly close to what Niskanen is doing now, if not more. Two totally different players, time will tell.

I'm probably in a smaller minority that just wants to see how this all turns out, I have no set in stone configureation that has to be the final answer. There's just so much slack for which way Shero, Bylsma can go. The only thing I know that won't be good for this team is if they go complete youth because that'll mean we're probably a couple seasons away from a cup, but should they make it a run this season and win it, go for it and do a complete overhaul of the vets save, Letang.

 

[SEALBound]

I would really like to have Niskanen back but only if its within reason. $3-4mil, I would do it. $4+...no. He's really come out of his shell this season IMHO, and he's worth looking at long term, under the assumption that Orpik is NOT on the roster next year.

With regards to Maatta, I have no doubt that he will soon become our best overall dman. Here's my concern for next year however: this year he has essentially played stress and pressure free. He's a rookie who unexpectedly made the team out of camp. He could only go up. Next year, his play will be the expectation. He will be playing with a bit more pressure to perform like he did this year. I can see there being troubles at times but nothing the kid can't overcome. I have a lot of confidence in this kid. He has a bright future thats for sure.

 

[mpp9]

Maybe at the moment but his upside should be fairly close to what Niskanen is doing now, if not more. Two totally different players, time will tell.

I'm probably in a smaller minority that just wants to see how this all turns out, I have no set in stone configureation that has to be the final answer. There's just so much slack for which way Shero, Bylsma can go. The only thing I know that won't be good for this team is if they go complete youth because that'll mean we're probably a couple seasons away from a cup, but should they make it a run this season and win it, go for it and do a complete overhaul of the vets save, Letang.

Exactly. Maatta could be moved in a deal for an elite winger for Sid. Orpik could be re-signed. Nisky could walk. Who knows. Our blue line depth allows any number of scenarios.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I would really like to have Niskanen back but only if its within reason. $3-4mil, I would do it. $4+...no. He's really come out of his shell this season IMHO, and he's worth looking at long term, under the assumption that Orpik is NOT on the roster next year.

With regards to Maatta, I have no doubt that he will soon become our overall dman. Here's my concern for next year however: this year he has essentially played stress and pressure free. He's a rookie who unexpectedly made the team out of camp. He could only go up. Next year, his play will be the expectation. He will be playing with a bit more pressure to perform like he did this year. I can see there being troubles at times but nothing the kid can't overcome. I have a lot of confidence in this kid. He has a bright future thats for sure.

You can alleviate that by keeping him out of the top line matchups, let him have success against 2nd and 3rd line players, and get him out there on the PP. I really can't complain about how he's been used this year, and how he's responded. I thought he would wilt when we go on the road. But other teams really don't go after him with their top lines as much as I would have expected.

The kid seems to be getting some respect around the league. In the PO though, teams will try to break him down physically. We'll see how he responds.