Defensive Depth

[BronzeSpruce]

is it just me? but it seems like in recent years there have been a TON of great Dman prospects. That doesn't help Ray Shero. When I look at teams with depth at forward they also seem to have Defensive Depth as well.

Anahiem is a perfect example. Not only do they have depth at forward but they also have Fowler, Vantanen, Lindholm.

Has our Depth at D lost some of its stock considering D Depth around the league seems to be rising (Edmonton Excluded)

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[LetangInTheSO]

I think we have the best defensive depth in the league. I'd prefer the best forward depth in the league (rather than a top-heavy bottom-almost-nonexistent group) with average defensive depth, but I'm not complaining.

 

[Fire Shero*]

The pens lack that true #1 dman. Letang was supposed to be that guy but he's not.

Compare our d to a team like Chicago or St. Louis. They have much better defense and can actually still draft forwards.

Who knows, maybe in 4 or 5 years Mattaa and Pouliot will be elite. But as of now we are years behind the stacked teams.

We have very good depth, quantity wise. I just don't know about quality.

 

[DegenX]

is it just me? but it seems like in recent years there have been a TON of great Dman prospects. That doesn't help Ray Shero. When I look at teams with depth at forward they also seem to have Defensive Depth as well.

Anahiem is a perfect example. Not only do they have depth at forward but they also have Fowler, Vantanen, Lindholm.

Has our Depth at D lost some of its stock considering D Depth around the league seems to be rising (Edmonton Excluded)

Isn't Anaheim currently rumored to be trying to acquire Girardi? Seems to me that a team with defensive depth wouldn't be looking to trade for another D man.

 

[cheesedanish87]

In today's NHL you have to draft and develop PMD.

PMD are in high demand in the NHL right now.

Gonchar got 2 years 10 million last year, that shows you have much PMD are valued in the NHL right now.

 

[Winger for Hire]

The pens lack that true #1 dman. Letang was supposed to be that guy but he's not.

I'd argue that Martin is a pretty true #1, but opinions seem to vary wildly on him.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

I'd argue that Martin is a pretty true #1, but opinions seem to vary wildly on him.

I think it boils down to a semantic debate about what a "#1" is/needs to be. I think Martin is our "#1" in the sense that he's a jack of all trades, reliable in any situation, and can play 25+ mins/night. But if you choose to define a #1 DMan as the team's most dominant player, then I think there are only a handful of guys in the league (perhaps 5) who meet that definition.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Number 1 d-man or not, you can win a Cup with our defense. That shouldn't really be a question.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I'd argue that Martin is a pretty true #1, but opinions seem to vary wildly on him.

No way. He's the best dman on the pens but if you compare him to other teams top dmen, you will be extremely dissapointed.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Isn't Anaheim currently rumored to be trying to acquire Girardi? Seems to me that a team with defensive depth wouldn't be looking to trade for another D man.

That's kind of my point, A lot of teams have young Dman Depth. Seems like most teams would be looking to add veterans as stop gaps. We know Shero isn't gonna trade of of the Vets we have. Trading our young guys for depth at forward may be more difficult moving forward than it was a few years back

 

[sf expat71]

I mean, we did just end up having so many injuries that we basically needed all that d-depth. What bugs me more is when we don't need to sign a guy like Eaton or trade for Murray because we have all this depth, but then the management goes out and does it anyway...

 

[LetangInTheSO]

I mean, we did just end up having so many injuries that we basically needed all that d-depth. What bugs me more is when we don't need to sign a guy like Eaton or trade for Murray because we have all this depth, but then the management goes out and does it anyway...

Well at least we haven't done that this year.

 

[DegenX]

That's kind of my point, A lot of teams have young Dman Depth. Seems like most teams would be looking to add veterans as stop gaps. We know Shero isn't gonna trade of of the Vets we have. Trading our young guys for depth at forward may be more difficult moving forward than it was a few years back

Ah ... gotcha. I think that maybe that's the silver lining in all of these injuries ... many of our young D have gotten playing time that they might not have otherwise. I'm hoping Shero doesn't trade away the future for a rental, but I think some of our young guys have a leg up on their counterparts on other teams.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No way. He's the best dman on the pens but if you compare him to other teams top dmen, you will be extremely dissapointed.

And if they compare their top forwards to ours, they'll be extremely disappointed. Our number 1 isn't the best, but our 1-6 is one of the best groups in the league. Not the top elite defense, but probably in the 2nd tier. We have a championship caliber defense.

 

[Winger for Hire]

No way. He's the best dman on the pens but if you compare him to other teams top dmen, you will be extremely dissapointed.

Defiantly arguing semantics now, but what the heck.

Teams Martin would be the #1 Dman:
Buffalo
Carolina
Calgary
Columbus
Colorado
Dallas
Edmonton
Florida
New Jersey
Islanders
Philadelphia
Tampa Bay
Washington
Winnipeg

Teams that Martin would maybe be #1:
Anaheim
Detroit
San Jose
Toronto
Vancouver

Depending on the coaches use of/feelings for PK Subban, Martin would be #1
Montreal

That's about 2/3 of the league by my count that he would be the #1 guy. Again, as stated before, it all depends on what you're defining/looking for in a "#1 defenseman" and how you actually view Martin as a player.

 

[Muscles4Malkin]

As going towards playoffs, I would hold Martin, Scuderi, Määttä for sure.

Orpik is kinda yeah, but meh... I like what he brings when he is actually on the mood for playing 100%, not 80-90% intencity.

Letang also should focus make simple safe plays more than having those sloppy turnovers, so Orpik and Letang are important players, but I would be OK to deal them for a right price + we could also get another "Niskanen" back if Shero can pull a great trade.

Niskanen is playing well and would keep him and his salary insteadt of Orpik, who even has a higher tradevalue I guess.

Shero can do what ever he see best for the other guys that we have.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

We are at the point where Shero's Dman hoarding is hurting the team instead of helping.

Remember that without the Tang injury there was not spot for any rookie. And even with it Des has had to play the majority of the season in the A.

We all thought that Shero had a master plan with drafting all these Dmen but he's failed to flow through. He moved Morrow for garbage and got Eaton and Murray to play over Des and Bort. Then he signed Scuds and didn't move anyone so there was no room for Des this year.

We'll see what happens but I wouldn't be surprised to see Orpik get a retirement contract this summer. And Des seems to be on his way out with little trade value.

 

[JTG]

No way. He's the best dman on the pens but if you compare him to other teams top dmen, you will be extremely dissapointed.

I really don't think so. I mean, aside from Weber, Suter, Chara, and maybe a few others, most teams would be doing better with Paul Martin. He can do everything pretty damn well.

 

[sf expat71]

Well at least we haven't done that this year.

Not yet, anyway. But we still have the trade deadline to look forward to...

 

[Ogrezilla]

We are at the point where Shero's Dman hoarding is hurting the team instead of helping.

Remember that without the Tang injury there was not spot for any rookie. And even with it Des has had to play the majority of the season in the A.

We all thought that Shero had a master plan with drafting all these Dmen but he's failed to flow through. He moved Morrow for garbage and got Eaton and Murray to play over Des and Bort. Then he signed Scuds and didn't move anyone so there was no room for Des this year.

We'll see what happens but I wouldn't be surprised to see Orpik get a retirement contract this summer. And Des seems to be on his way out with little trade value.

How he handles now until next off-season is really his last chance to handle it reasonably well. I think the Maatta situation caught him off guard. I don't like how he handled last off-season, but I don't think it was terrible as far as the d-men go. Not ideal, but not terrible either. Then we ended up having 1 more rookie than expected and Despres got screwed by his waiver situation.

If Orpik is back next year, Shero has screwed the pooch on the entire situation. If he trades Despres for pennies on the dollar, he's screwed up too. But its still salvageable at this point.

 

[JTG]

I definitely think Shero being caught off guard is great wording. No one expected Olli Maatta to stick here, and if you really think about it, Despres and Bortuzzo were battling for that 1 spot, with Despres probably winning. So had Maatta not effectively played himself on the team, Despres would be a regular right now, or in the very least, splitting games with Bortuzzo. These things happen. I wouldn't be pointing to signings or anything like that as the problem with the blueline. The "problem" was a young defenseman played well beyond his years (and continues to), and he wouldn't be held back.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I definitely think Shero being caught off guard is great wording. No one expected Olli Maatta to stick here, and if you really think about it, Despres and Bortuzzo were battling for that 1 spot, with Despres probably winning. So had Maatta not effectively played himself on the team, Despres would be a regular right now, or in the very least, splitting games with Bortuzzo. These things happen. I wouldn't be pointing to signings or anything like that as the problem with the blueline. The "problem" was a young defenseman played well beyond his years (and continues to), and he wouldn't be held back.

Well we had 8 d-men signed even without Maatta, so Despres and Bortuzzo would have also been fighting Engo. But still, I agree in general.

I also think Disco likely planned on moving a d-man until Vokoun went out. Someone was going to have to go. He decided not to after Vokoun was out, and if there was a mistake in Shero's plan this year, I think that was it. Orpik would have brought back a nice return last off-season.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I definitely think Shero being caught off guard is great wording. No one expected Olli Maatta to stick here, and if you really think about it, Despres and Bortuzzo were battling for that 1 spot, with Despres probably winning. So had Maatta not effectively played himself on the team, Despres would be a regular right now, or in the very least, splitting games with Bortuzzo. These things happen. I wouldn't be pointing to signings or anything like that as the problem with the blueline. The "problem" was a young defenseman played well beyond his years (and continues to), and he wouldn't be held back.

There were no spots. The Tang injury is the only reason Olli stayed up.

And it's incredibly naive to assume that Des would be a regular right now w/o Olli, considering he was getting benched with 4 Dmen out and Engo was getting 20+ a night.