Line Combos: Defense Pairings

[Pip]

I know there has been some talk about it, but I am curious as to other opinions on what we should do on the backend. I hear Torts likes to ride his top 4 heavy, so putting Alberts/Weber on the third pairing should be no problem. The problems I see with making combos are:

1)Bieksa needs a solid, defensive partner, preferably Hamhuis
2)Hamhuis and Garrison makes a great shutdown pair, but that means we can't roll with Hamjuice
3)Edler needs a consistently solid parter (aka, not Bieksa)
4)We need a RH shot on the PP so we can put Kesler in front on the net. This is just my opinion, but I feel he is better suited there.
5)Most agree that Corrado should play in the AHL.

What I suggest is something like...

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Weber-Tanev
Alberts

PP
Garrison-Weber
Edler-Bieksa

PK
Hamhuis-Garrison
Edler-Tanev

Garrison wasn't tried enough with Edler imo and I think he could compliment Eddie quite well. Edler brings more mobility and puck moving while Garrison can be a steady partner for AE. I might be inclined to think that Alberts and Weber should swap in and out for that last defensive spot depending on who we play. For example, against Anaheim or LA I would go with AA as we need a big body to deal with the size those teams have up front, but when we play Chicago/Edmonton I would go with Weber. He is more mobile, and I feel Alberts could get exposed by teams with high speed. I want Corrado up for the playoffs and feel that he could be paired with Tanev (he can play his off side no?) and then Weber/Alberts will be our #7 and #8.

Looking for different ideas that I haven't thought of.

Click to read more...

 

[Nuckles]

There are a bunch of possibilities depending on how well certain guys are playing, and if Garrison can play well on the right side with Edler.

If they want to go top 4-heavy, then I'd do:
Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Alberts - Tanev

If Corrado/Weber play really well and/or Garrison isn't playing well with Edler, I'd do:
Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Corrado/Weber

As for the powerplay, I don't want Kesler in front of the net. I want him to stay healthy for a season, so I'd put him on the point since he likes shooting the puck anyway. Put Kassian in front of the net and have Edler/Garrison on the right side of the blueline.

 

[Pip]

If Kassian is playing well, then I have no problem, but I truly believe that Kesler is one of the best netfront in the league. As long as it's not Burrows (who gets pushed around too easily imo) or nobody (which happened a ton) because you're most likely not going to beat a goalie clean from the point without traffic.

 

[Nuckles]

If Kassian is playing well, then I have no problem, but I truly believe that Kesler is one of the best netfront in the league. As long as it's not Burrows (who gets pushed around too easily imo) or nobody (which happened a ton) because you're most likely not going to beat a goalie clean from the point without traffic.

Yes, Kesler is very good when battling in front of the net, but I'm worried about him staying healthy when Torts wants guys to block shots and play physical 24/7.

And Kassian has to learn to be a top 6 power forward eventually, we can't keep him in the bottom 6 with no special teams icetime forever.

 

[Pip]

Yes, Kesler is very good when battling in front of the net, but I'm worried about him staying healthy when Torts wants guys to block shots and play physical 24/7.

And Kassian has to learn to be a top 6 power forward eventually, we can't keep him in the bottom 6 with no special teams icetime forever.

I think keeping Kesler off the PK would help more than in front of the net on the PP. I am a huge believer that net presence is the most important thing on the PP, so in the end if Kassian can fill that role I am really happy.

True, although I am for putting Kassian with the Sedins and for sure on the second PP unit.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If Kassian is playing well, then I have no problem, but I truly believe that Kesler is one of the best netfront in the league. As long as it's not Burrows (who gets pushed around too easily imo) or nobody (which happened a ton) because you're most likely not going to beat a goalie clean from the point without traffic.

I agree. Kesler is one of the best in the league at playing in front of the net and there are very few players who have that ability. You have to use him to his strengths and not worry about him getting hurt. If Kassian can perform that role consistently then that would be great but I think it's doubtful that he can replacwe Kesler's presence in front of the net at this stage. Maybe he can perform that role on the second unit this season.

 

[Pip]

I agree. Kesler is one of the best in the league at playing in front of the net and there are very few players who have that ability. You have to use him to his strengths and not worry about him getting hurt. If Kassian can perform that role consistently then that would be great but I think it's doubtful that he can replacwe Kesler's presence in front of the net at this stage. Maybe he can perform that role on the second unit this season.

This is what I think as well. For example, I bet Kesler is the netfront guy for the Americans during the Olympics. He's that good in front. His shot is great as well, but I he is better utilized in front

 

[KeninsFan]

3)Edler needs a consistently solid parter (aka, not Bieksa)

Edler-Ehrhoff was good especially in offensive situations.

Maybe forcing Edler-Bieksa with easy offensive starts and Hamhuis-Garrison getting the tougher minutes is the way to go.

 

[Pip]

Edler-Ehrhoff was good especially in offensive situations.

Maybe forcing Edler-Bieksa with easy offensive starts and Hamhuis-Garrison getting the tougher minutes is the way to go.

Possibly as I have considered that. From what I remember, CE allowed Edler to focus a lot more on the defensive side of the game, which Alex is completely capable of doing. When he has to carry the load offensively for his pairing, he seemingly becomes much worse defensively.

Perhaps one of them can consciously be more defensive to make the pairing stronger. Although the pairing did get a bad rep this year because Bieksa was playing injured. By "steady" I also mean the same partner for the whole year, seems like Edler been through a revolving door of partners for the past few years and haven't really been able to develop some chemistry with anyone

 

[Pseudonymous*]

I do not agree at all about Corrado playing in the AHL and I have been voicing that all off season

I want to see

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Corrado
Edler - Tanev

With Garrison and Edler getting alot of the PP minutes.

Anything different and i will be very disappointed.

 

[Pip]

I do not agree at all about Corrado playing in the AHL

I want to see

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Corrado
Edler - Tanev

With Garrison and Edler getting alot of the PP minutes.

Anything different and i will be very disappointed.

How would you divide up the ice time, all equal? That's what I 'm assuming because Edler is not really a bottom pairing guy. A completely balanced lineup is an interesting idea to say the least but I don't think it's necessarily what's best for us. While Corrado played well going down the stretch last year and in the playoffs, I feel that he is not ready for a top 4 role on a playoff team right now. A year in the AHL playing top pairing minutes, PP, PK etc and then coming up for the playoffs is better for his development imo.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I'd start with the premise that since Hamhuis makes anyone he plays with look good, you pair him with your most inconsistent top 4 defender. So, I'd place him with Bieksa (although you could argue Edler as well).
So, Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
The bottom pairing will have Tanev for sure and, personally, I feel that Corrado is already better than Alberts and Weber. I'm just not sure that a pairing of Tanev and Corrado would work in terms of who plays their off side.

Also, Garrisson absolutely needs to be on the top powerplay from day one this year and the powerplay has to be run so that his shot is a significant option. The fact that he wasa kept off the top unit for a chunk of last year was a big mistake.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Yes, Kesler is very good when battling in front of the net, but I'm worried about him staying healthy when Torts wants guys to block shots and play physical 24/7.

And Kassian has to learn to be a top 6 power forward eventually, we can't keep him in the bottom 6 with no special teams icetime forever.

This is among the reasons I partly advocate limiting Kesler's time not on the powerplay, but the penalty kill. We have a multitude of two-way forwards who can effectively kill penalties, including the Sedins if Torts' claims hold true. This is likely where injuries are to occur. I wager Burrows and Hansen could easily shoulder the burden whilst Kesler and Higgins shift to the second unit PK.

Of course, if Kassian develops a similar net front presence, then we can either relocate Kesler to the point or off the first line powerplay entirely. That said, I remain somewhat tentative because of how poorly our powerplay fared when we were playing "will it work?" with forwards on the point.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I do not agree at all about Corrado playing in the AHL and I have been voicing that all off season

I want to see

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Corrado
Edler - Tanev

With Garrison and Edler getting alot of the PP minutes.

Anything different and i will be very disappointed.

I'd go with this as well, but only when 5 on 5. Corrado and Tanev would not see any PP time, so we'd go top 4 on the PP and mainly on the PK as well.

If Corrado and Tanev can handle 18-19 minutes per game, it should work out fine.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

How would you divide up the ice time, all equal? That's what I 'm assuming because Edler is not really a bottom pairing guy. A completely balanced lineup is an interesting idea to say the least but I don't think it's necessarily what's best for us. While Corrado played well going down the stretch last year and in the playoffs, I feel that he is not ready for a top 4 role on a playoff team right now. A year in the AHL playing top pairing minutes, PP, PK etc and then coming up for the playoffs is better for his development imo.

It is quite easy to roll those pairs for the most part and still get the better players more ice time. Teams do it often. The better players usually get their ice time on the PP and by extra shifts, sometimes with another player..

D pairings do change. The pairings we choose, we choose to be the pairings more often than not, not to set them for good, all game, every game.

He doesn't need to be in a top 4 in ice time with the pairings i have chosen

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

How would you divide up the ice time, all equal? That's what I 'm assuming because Edler is not really a bottom pairing guy. A completely balanced lineup is an interesting idea to say the least but I don't think it's necessarily what's best for us. While Corrado played well going down the stretch last year and in the playoffs, I feel that he is not ready for a top 4 role on a playoff team right now. A year in the AHL playing top pairing minutes, PP, PK etc and then coming up for the playoffs is better for his development imo.

I still remain adamant that having Tanev or Corrado play their off wing for a handful of games will not be detriment. If either struggles, we simply swap in Alberts/Weber and Corrado goes back to the AHL. Eventually, we have to determine if this is a viable option considering Corrado's only chance to crack our lineup is if he or Tanev can play the opposite side, as neither are likely to dethrone someone from our top four, and I agree with you regarding balanced ice time being ill-suited for the team.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

It is quite easy to roll those pairs for the most part and still get the better players more ice time. Teams do it often. The better players usually get their ice time on the PP and by extra shifts, sometimes with another player..

D pairings do change. The pairings we choose, we choose to be the pairings more often than not, not to set them for good, all game, every game.

He doesn't need to be in a top 4 in ice time with the pairings i have chosen

Except it limits their potential use. Edler and Garrison are far more likely to impede the opposition's best players than Tanev or Corrado. Your lines demand significant contributions from one or both players whose sole introduction to the likes of Toews, Crosby and etc has been sporadic at best.

It's not necessarily a bad idea per se, but I would rather determine our options and if Edler/Garrison have chemistry beforehand.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

If Kassian is playing well, then I have no problem, but I truly believe that Kesler is one of the best netfront in the league. As long as it's not Burrows (who gets pushed around too easily imo) or nobody (which happened a ton) because you're most likely not going to beat a goalie clean from the point without traffic.

Burrows is a pretty good netfront presence, IMO. I've only seen him get knocked down by really big guys and times when it's a blatant penalty. My only problem with him is he doesn't have big clobbering legs Kesler does and not nearly wide-enough shoulders for the goalie to have a problem tracking.

That and Kesler follows the goalie and stays out of the crease better. And he doesn't kick pucks in intentionally.

What I'd like to see on defense:

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Tanev
Garrison-Corrado

What I'll probably see and wouldn't mind:

Edler-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Alberts-Tanev

 

[Proto]

It has to be adaptable to how guys are playing, I think. You have a few options:

Option 1a:

Edler-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Alberts-Tanev

Option 1b:

Tanev-Weber/Corrado as the third pairing or Corrado-Tanev/Weber as the third pairing. I'd at least see how those guys look on their off side this pre-season.

Under this scenario, I think Garrison/Edler/Hamhuis all play about 25 minutes a night, Bieksa plays 20, Tanev plays 15, Alberts plays 12.

Option 2:

Hamhuis-Garrison
Edler-Tanev(Corrado?)
Alberts/Corrado(Tanev?)-Bieksa

If Bieksa isn't playing well, this is what I do. Hamhuis/Garrison take the tough minutes and play 26-27 minutes a night. Edler Tanev take easier 5v5 minutes but Edler picks up some PP time with Bieksa.

Option 3:

Same as above, but you put Edler/Bieksa together for a full pre-season and see how they work in Tortorella's system.

-----

I'd try these out in the pre-season, with the different pairings playing top pairing minutes on split squads, and see what shakes out. It's good to have established pairings, but I think the squad needs to be more adaptable to injury/call-ups.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

Except it limits their potential use. Edler and Garrison are far more likely to impede the opposition's best players than Tanev or Corrado. Your lines demand significant contributions from one or both players whose sole introduction to the likes of Toews, Crosby and etc has been sporadic at best.

It's not necessarily a bad idea per se, but I would rather determine our options and if Edler/Garrison have chemistry beforehand.

We're talking the season, not playoffs. I think they'd be quite fine.

And any D pairing with Hamhuis will be the 1st pairing 5 on 5.

Im also higher on Corrado and Tanev than most, i think both players , play a very safe , smart game for their age

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

We're talking the season, not playoffs. I think they'd be quite fine.

And any D pairing with Hamhuis will be the 1st pairing 5 on 5.

Im also higher on Corrado and Tanev than most, i think both players , play a very safe , smart game for their age

I disagree. While Hamhuis is a pseudo-number one. I suspect Edler will unofficially hold that title, at least initially given Torts' statements. Likewise, I feel your expectations of Corrado and Tanev are somewhat unwarranted. I like both, and see a bright future ahead for them, but they have played sheltered minutes for the most part and unless they light the world on fire. They are not better than our established core.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Given how Torts and most other coaches use their defence these days, I think we can expect the big 4 to carry the bulk of the workload and the bottom pairing to get sheltered minutes. Tanev will be one of the bottom pairing and Alberts, Weber and Corrado will battle for the 6th spot and the seventh spots. The easy move is to send Corrado down and keep Alberts and Weber but I'm hoping that we really do intend to give rookies a chance and that Corrado is permitted to compete with Alberts and Weber on ability and not contract status. If so, I think that he grabs the 6th spot and Alberts is our seventh defenceman getting called in when injuries occur.
Of course, this all depends on how the players perform at camp.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

I disagree. While Hamhuis is a pseudo-number one. I suspect Edler will unofficially hold that title, at least initially given Torts' statements. Likewise, I feel your expectations of Corrado and Tanev are somewhat unwarranted. I like both, and see a bright future ahead for them, but they have played sheltered minutes for the most part and unless they light the world on fire. They are not better than our established core.

Never claimed they are better than our core. I think they should be getting #5 and #6 in minutes.

And Hamhuis has been better than edler every single year and will continue to be, Edler is lucky that Hamhuis isn't good on the PP. Fans of Edler will continue to think he will come out the next year the full out #1, I don't see this ever happening. He simply isn't the type of player that is willing to play physical, whether because his body cannot handle it (due to his back) or he doesn't have the passion. And he will continue be a risk in high pressure situations IMO

Pseudo number 1? IMO I think hes a top defender in this league. His only fault is that he isn't a PP type of D man. He puts up a good amount of points every year and mostly at ES

Even with the amount of people here who think hes great and our best defender, i still think hes underrated around here, even by those people

 

[Seatoo]

I'd like to see:

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison - Yes please!
Hainsey/LHD-Tanev
Alberts-Webber

Or

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Tanev - Ok but kinda meh
Garrison-Corrado
Alberts-Webber

Or

Hamhuis-Garrison
Edler-Bieksa. - oh please dear god no
Alberts-Tanev
LHD-Webber



Edit: Just say no to drugs - they make people think that two young RHD's would be good on the same pairing

 

[Hi-wayman]

I'm going to disagree with most and say Trots is going to reorganize the defensive pairing so that each pairing plays a strong offensive/defensive role. Elder's pairng will still carry the most minutes, but Trots will expect Edler's pairing to play much more against the opposition's top lines then in the past. A role that Hamhuis and Bieksa handled before. I also think Alberts will remain our 7th D and because Corrado can move up and down without worring about waivers, Corrado will play in the AHL while Weber, with his point shot and PP skills will make the team.

Pairings:
1st - Edler - Tanev (Tanev's defensive play allows Edler more freedom)
2nd - Hamhuis - Weber (Hamhuis' defensive play opens up space for Weber's offence)
3rd - Garrison - Bieksa (Both players play tough and can be offensive threats)