Defense depth?

[trellaine201]

I thought everyone said we had depth at defense before the season began?

Our defense sucks. They cant get the puck out on most nights.

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[Jot]

We have too many #5s and #6s

 

[Community]

We have too many #5s and #6s

Was just going to say this... So far this year Fraser, Ranger, Franson, (even Gardiner at times) have played like #5 or 6s (or AHL players...)

 

[Banic]

We have quality prospects with potential to be good defensemen in the future. Waiting for development sucks.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

Shouldve started with Macwilliam instead of Fraser.

 

[Predaleafs]

I think we need a couple of call-ups. A lineup like this would be perfect.

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Franson-Brennan
Liles-Rielly

Fraser isnt better than most of the D, Ranger has only had 2-3 good games. Time to get rid of the fighter and bring in pmd.

One guy i really want to look at is Giradi from NYR. Maybe a move around Fraser and Ashton and a 1st. A solid defender to play alongside Dion. Dions best time was with Hamrlik, i believe, in Calgary. It also him to inch with a stable guy beside him

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I think we need a couple of call-ups. A lineup like this would be perfect.

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Franson-Brennan
Liles-Rielly

Fraser isnt better than most of the D, Ranger has only had 2-3 good games. Time to get rid of the fighter and bring in pmd.

One guy i really want to look at is Giradi from NYR. Maybe a move around Fraser and Ashton and a 1st. A solid defender to play alongside Dion. Dions best time was with Hamrlik, i believe, in Calgary. It also him to inch with a stable guy beside him

The Hamrlik - Dion pairing work, because Calgary wasn't a rush team. It was a low tempo, tight checking team. Much like how Beauchemin didn't look good on our team, and Iginla bombed on the Pens, defensive defenceman won't be working here.

What Phaneuf needs is a mobile, puck-moving type that has a strong defensive game. Someone like Brodin or McDonagh. Both can play a shut down role, but also move the puck effectively into the offensive zone. While Dion is great rushing with the puck, he is pretty average when it comes to creatively passing the puck. He can make crisp passes, but we can someone who can make Kaberle-esque passes that can open scoring lanes. In other words, someone who can control the tempo of the game.

PS: Watch the games, carefully. We're actually quite competent in the defensive zone. What we need to do is stop being hemmed in our zone. Defensive defenceman won't be helping us in that regard. Instead, a more mature Gardiner or Rielly would help.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Shouldve started with Macwilliam instead of Fraser.

MacWilliam is a -6 in the AHL which is the worst on the Marlies. Fraser is a -1 in the NHL which is slightly below the middle for the Leafs.

I haven't watched any Marlies games this year(hence I used one of the only AHL stats available for stay at home/tough type defenceman) but a guy in the trade forum said MacWilliam was one of his dissapointment on the Marlies this year.

I don't think MacWilliam is ready yet

 

[Canada4Gold]

I think we need a couple of call-ups. A lineup like this would be perfect.

Phaneuf-Gunnar
Franson-Brennan
Liles-Rielly

Fraser isnt better than most of the D, Ranger has only had 2-3 good games. Time to get rid of the fighter and bring in pmd.

One guy i really want to look at is Giradi from NYR. Maybe a move around Fraser and Ashton and a 1st. A solid defender to play alongside Dion. Dions best time was with Hamrlik, i believe, in Calgary. It also him to inch with a stable guy beside him

you want a 2nd and 3rd pairing made of all offensive defensemen?

Isn't defense our problem?

 

[InterceptSchenn]

Gunnarsson is on the top pair, there is no depth.

 

[Jot]

Liles is +10

and

Petter Granberg (aka right-handed Gunnarsson) is a +9!

One of these guys should be given a shot.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

We have too many #5s and #6s

This. We have a lot of guys who could fill in on the 3rd pairing but few guys who should be top 4 d-men.

 

[JAMmer124]

Liles is +10

and

Petter Granberg (aka right-handed Gunnarsson) is a +9!

One of these guys should be given a shot.

Gunnar isn't a great comparable for Granberg. Petter is much more physical, but doesn't have the offensive tools Gunnar has. Gunnar makes good passes and skates better.

 

[Jot]

Gunnar isn't a great comparable for Granberg. Petter is much more physical, but doesn't have the offensive tools Gunnar has. Gunnar makes good passes and skates better.

A defensive defender with very good size, Granberg has both strong defensive acumen and can chip in with some offense from time to time with a strong first-pass. He plays a very smart defensive game and is rarely caught out of position. Does a very good job containing opposition forwards in the defensive zone due to his large wing span and body position. Compared in style to current Maple Leaf defender Carl Gunnarsson, Granberg is said to have a bit more of a physical edge to his game. He is expected to become an even more dominant defender as he matures.


That's what his scouting report says, i just assumed it to be somewhat true.

 

[cookie]

Gunnar isn't a great comparable for Granberg. Petter is much more physical, but doesn't have the offensive tools Gunnar has. Gunnar makes good passes and skates better.

And these qualities make him a great partner for Phaneuf. The pairings below them are playing like trash and that increases the top pairing's work because they have to deal with the messes from our second and third pairing.

Fraser is showing why he was acquired through waivers;

Gardiner continually looks confused and hogs the puck for too long, too often (surprised Carlyle hasn't sat him yet);

Franson is too slow and trying very risky plays which leaves him caught up ice;

Rielly is not producing and killing offensive plays;

Ranger is showing that he is a top AHL defenseman but a #5-#6 with glimpses of #3-#4 play. He is still

There needs to be a players-only meeting as the top pairing is being left out to dry by their subordinates.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The more I see of Jake Gardiner, the more I see him less a key player for us in the future. Doesn't have the look of 2nd pairing D man at all.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

The more I see of Jake Gardiner, the more I see him less a key player for us in the future. Doesn't have the look of 2nd pairing D man at all.

I could not disagree with you more. Only player on this team thats actually able to get the puck out of his own end.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I could not disagree with you more. Only player on this team thats actually able to get the puck out of his own end.

You need to look deeper into just carrying the puck out of the zone, what he does with it afterward>How he defends when he doesn't have it>None are very good.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

You need to look deeper into just carrying the puck out of the zone, what he does with it afterward>How he defends when he doesn't have it>None are very good.

Yes, lets look deeper shall we. Gardiner has the highest corsi for and fenwick for of any defenceman on this team. Also leads in shots for possession percentage of our defencemen too. Gardiner leads the team in 5 v 5 ice time, only behind Phaneuf with 10 5 v 5 goals against. (Leaving Fraser out of the equation due to ice time factor). Gardiner is not the problem. Frankly, he should be part of the solution. Getting rid of him is a mistake, and a large one at that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yes, lets look deeper shall we. Gardiner has the highest corsi for and fenwick for of any defenceman on this team. Also leads in shots for possession percentage of our defencemen too. Gardiner leads the team in 5 v 5 ice time, only behind Phaneuf with 10 5 v 5 goals against. (Leaving Fraser out of the equation due to ice time factor). Gardiner is not the problem. Frankly, he should be part of the solution. Getting rid of him is a mistake, and a large one at that.

You lost me at Corsi and Fenwick, I suggest watching him play, if you did you cannot tell me he has been good this year. He is the problem when you have him as your 2nd pairing D man.

How many times has he lost battles on the boards, misread plays, is soft on coverage, and besides all that for an offensive defenceman, the cut, curl, and fake slapper is an abysmal offensive play that is illustrated in his 5 assists this season despite being labelled an offensive defenceman.

 

[Diatomic]

You lost me at Corsi and Fenwick, I suggest watching him play, if you did you cannot tell me he has been good this year. He is the problem when you have him as your 2nd pairing D man.

How many times has he lost battles on the boards, misread plays, is soft on coverage, and besides all that for an offensive defenceman, the cut, curl, and fake slapper is an abysmal offensive play that is illustrated in his 5 assists this season despite being labelled an offensive defenceman.

I like Gards on the 2nd pairing he just needs better partners, Franson Fraser and Ranger are all pylons that really can't do anything. If Gardiner had a compatible partner like Gunnarsson it would be a good pairing.

The board battles is really the only problem that sticks out to me, I think he's got a top 4 skill set in everything else

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I like Gards on the 2nd pairing he just needs better partners, Franson Fraser and Ranger are all pylons that really can't do anything. If Gardiner had a compatible partner like Gunnarsson it would be a good pairing.

The board battles is really the only problem that sticks out to me, I think he's got a top 4 skill set in everything else

It's a major problem, when you are beaten on the boards by little Daniel Briere don't you think?

 

[Sonofamitch]

Get rid of franson, Fraser and ranger bring in a legit top 4 D for their salary. And then call up that Granberg kid.

Gunnerson- Phaneuf
Rielly - Girardi
Gardiner- Granberg

That's a sweet defence, do it up Nonis.

 

[rdawg1234]

We have great prospect depth, but badly need a top 4 D-man.

Ranger is underperforming considering what he used to be.

Franson is pure offense, the more I see him, the more I want him gone and he could get something decent in return. His defensive game is poor, his stick never seems to be in the right spot.

Fraser is an AHL d-man, at best a #6, too slow for this game IMO, he was just on a hot streak last season.

Rielly has great potential, but he's a rookie playing like a rookie, some flashes of greatness and alot of mistakes.

Gardiner has been up and down.

Leaving us with Phaneuf and Gunnar as our only truly good d-men.

we need another top 4, then as our prospects develop(Gardiner, Rielly soon, Granberg,Percy etc. maybe next season), they can fill the rest of the slots.

 

[Diatomic]

It's a major problem, when you are beaten on the boards by little Daniel Briere don't you think?

well Plekanec and Gallagher were beating every defender we had on the boards and their midgets too