David Backes #2C vs. #1RW

[Stopsight]

SOB and Schwartz stastny Tarasenko

Both lines can play 18+ min if necessary even in hitchs system, i'm not worried at all about bottom 6

Having two top 6 worthy centers is the whole point

 

[RR10*]

My opinion is that Stastny is not a good fit with Backes. He needs to play with skilled guys that can score a lot other than from rebounds = Backes. A good line would be Steen - Stastny - Tarasenko.

 

[Hooliganx3]

Backes has produced best at center. Backes is a Selke caliber center. There is no point in moving him to wing as I've seen him play his best at center. We also can have good center depth with him at center or very questionable center depth with him on the wing.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I posted the same lines in the other thread, but I think this would have the maximum chemistry and depth for rolling 4 lines. Steen, Oshie, and Tarasenko have chemistry with both linemates on the 3 lines counted on for goals.

Steen-Backes-Lindstrom
Berglund-Stastny-Oshie
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Jaskin-Sobotka-Lapierre

Reaves
Paajarvi/Porter

 

[medkit]

SOB and Schwartz stastny Tarasenko

Both lines can play 18+ min if necessary even in hitchs system, i'm not worried at all about bottom 6

Having two top 6 worthy centers is the whole point

I agree with this. That's a top-6 I don't think we can improve on, and then you have all the goodies in the world to construct the optimal other 2.

Really there are so many unknowns that it's pointless trying to figure out a bottom-6 right now. But Lehtera+Berglund sounds pretty killer. I have high confidence in Berglund on the wing with a playmaker. If management doesn't, then trade Berglund for a more fitting winger.

 

[HighNote]

If Lehtera proves that he can be an effective 2nd line center, I'd put Backes on the 1st line wing right away.

 

[bluesman11]

There sure is a lot of opinions here and I'm sure it's possible that anyone of these line combinations could work throughout the regular season, but I don't think they'll be considering anything but Backes in the middle on one of the top two lines come the playoffs.

They needed more depth, not just any center-man either, I'm hoping Lehtera is very successful, but it's his first year in the league and he'll have to play against some pretty big and talented center-man from the west conference, just doesn't seem realistic to think he'll be up for that challenge his first year even though he's in his mid twenties, and has had some success in Europe.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

There sure is a lot of opinions here and I'm sure it's possible that anyone of these line combinations could work throughout the regular season, but I don't think they'll be considering anything but Backes in the middle on one of the top two lines come the playoffs.

They needed more depth, not just any center-man either, I'm hoping Lehtera is very successful, but it's his first year in the league and he'll have to play against some pretty big and talented center-man from the west conference, just doesn't seem realistic to think he'll be up for that challenge his first year even though he's in his mid twenties, and has had some success in Europe.

I think the key to Lehteras success will be having two other productive lines for opposing teams to contend with. The Blues are deep enough with wingers that he'll have good line mates regardless who exactly they are. But if he other two lines are creating matchup concerns and Lehteras line is going against the opponents third line, he'll be able to succeed.

This is what makes me curious about some if these projections where he's with Tarasenko. That could be a pretty potent line, and not really viewed as the third line.

 

[cardsfan]

There are two lines I think you can't go wrong with:

1. A true top line: Steen-Stastny-Backes —*Put them out against anyone in the league. They can play defense, they can grind, they've got a playmaker, a shooter, a net-clogger. It's three forwards with complete games in their primes.

2a. The supergrinder/shutdown line: Schwartz-Sobotka-Oshie —*The couple games they played together last year (as the top line, when the rest of the forwards were injured) were tantalizing. They were great. I think Sobotka has great chemistry with both Schwartz and Oshie, and they don't lose too much from his lack of playmaking ability, because both can create on their own (and play off each other) once in the offensive zone. This line gets a ton of neutral- and defensive-zone starts. I think they get big numbers anyway.

Then there's the Lehtera-Tarasenko combo. We at least need to see what that one does:

2b. The offense-now line: Berglund (to start)-Lehtera-Tarasenko —*This gives Berglund a chance to show what he can do in an offensive winger role. It gives Lehtera and Berglund both protected minutes while one adjusts to a new league, the other a new position. And since we'll be giving these guys a ton of offensive starts, it puts Tarasenko in a role that makes clear we want him to focus on becoming a scorer. There could be a lot of moving parts, of course. Paajarvi, Lindstrom and Jaskin all would have a chance to play their way onto it, instead of Berglund (who'd become trade bait). But I think there's a decent chance this would actually work.

And the leftovers:

4. Energy line: Porter-Lapierre-Reaves —*I'd think you rotate Lindstrom and Paajarvi in here throughout the year, depending on matchups and to check out chemistry.

 

[Multimoodia]

I still don't see the option to move a Backes to either goalie (thus erasing the concern for a crease clearer) or #7 defenseman/arena announcer so I'm going to have to consider this poll null and void.

 

[Blues88]

With the acquisition of Stastny, we've automatically bolstered the top 6 into what could potentially be two potent offensive lines. Seeing how Stastny isn't automatically a better center than Backes, and the drop off after those two is vast if we're considering top 6 minutes, moving Backes to the wing would create the hole Armstrong aggressively filled this off season.

I kind of thought they'd roll with the SOB line as it was because it was pretty effective in shutting down the opposition while having positive possession #s and good production. Wouldn't it be smart to shelter Tarasenko and Schwartz a little bit, have Stastny center that line, and see how they fair?

 

[Stealth JD]

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Berglund-Lindstrom/Sobotka-Oshie
Sobotka/Lindstrom-LaPierre-MPS/Reaves

Backes to RW is a no-brainer for me...provided Lehtera can be a legit #2C (and playing with those line-mates should help tremendously).

Can't believe the poll is so lop-sided.

 

[Majorityof1]

Steen-Stastny-Backes
Schwartz-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Berglund-Lindstrom/Sobotka-Oshie
Sobotka/Lindstrom-LaPierre-MPS/Reaves

Backes to RW is a no-brainer for me...provided Lehtera can be a legit #2C (and playing with those line-mates should help tremendously).

Can't believe the poll is so lop-sided.

Asked and answered in your own post. Why is this poll so lopsided? Because Lehtera has done nothing yet to prove he can be a #2 center in the NHL. And Backes has finished top 4 in the Selke voting as one of the best shutdown centers in the league.

 

[Dbrownss]

I was one for Backes on the wing if we got both spezza and stastny. But after mulling over combos....Backes needs to be at center, occasionally sliding into RW to counter certain lines. Even if Lehterä is 2nd line quality....I'd rather sport 3 "elite" lines instead of one line and 2 decent 2nd quality lines. If that makes any sense

 

[Stealth JD]

Backes can still provide Selke-level defense from the RW position...but this will allow him to physically punish opposing defenders a lot more, and takes away some of the play-making aspects that he doesn't excel at. His natural position is RW...he was forced into the C role due to his size and organization dearth at the time.

 

[Majorityof1]

Backes can still provide Selke-level defense from the RW position...but this will allow him to physically punish opposing defenders a lot more, and takes away some of the play-making aspects that he doesn't excel at. His natural position is RW...he was forced into the C role due to his size and organization dearth at the time.

He was forced to be a center and he thrived there. A center has won the Selke every year for the last 10 years. Lehtinen is the only non center to win the award since 1992. Only 4 non centers have ever won the award (although multiple times). Centers are far more important defensively than any other forward position. I wrote an in depth post somewhere on here as to why. I don't feel like going into it again. Sufficed to say, centers are very important in any system defensively, and more so in the Blues system as they rely on the center to read the play coming off the forecheck. Backes is much better at his job as defensive center than any other Blue, and much more valuable there than on the forecheck. Our forecheck does not rely on leveling people but on getting them to make mistakes.

 

[Blues88]

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Stastny-Tarasenko
Berglund-Lehtera-Lindstrom
Lapierre-Sobotka-Reaves/?

This is how I'd roll to start the season and see how it works. This team had (supposedly) 3 scoring lines and an energy line before FA. Any line that doesn't have Backes/Oshie on it is sheltered a bit any way.

Now we have the luxury of having a pivot on nearly every line, 2 legitimate scoring lines, a 3rd line that could create mismatches, and a bottom 6 that, however you want to play, can play (scramble the lines if need be) We've sacrificed nothing on the defensive side of the ice and improved offensively, in theory, because Stastny becomes our biggest distributor and hopefully creates opportunities for the kids.

What does concern me is speed. We don't have much throughout the forward group. Really don't think PRV is the answer because of his limitations, but its no secret what value his speed brings. If he could capitalize on the mistakes he forces, he may have full time employment in this league....

 

[Stealth JD]

Bottom-line is Backes lacks the vision to be a top-line center...something that Stastny has in spades:

"I think one of his greatest assets is his hockey IQ," Armstrong said. "We really think that he thinks the game strong ... I see a scenario where Paul plays with (Alexander) Steen and (David) Backes and that gives us quite a bit of strength on the sides with Backes. And then you have (Patrik) Berglund, (Vladimir) Sobotka and maybe (T.J.) Oshie as another line. I think our group of nine forwards is strong today than it was yesterday."

Over the past two, three seasons the Blues' collection of centers, led by captain David Backes, was sturdy but lacking in playmaking creativity. To me there was a clear need to add centers that can set up teammates for quality chances. And Stastny will help the cause. Based on the scouting reports, Lehtera is a skilled passer. This is a chicken-or-egg proposition, but I don't think the Blues would have maximized the value of adding a shoot-and-score winger unless they had centers capable of connecting on sweet-spot passes.

• Along those lines, Stastny has averaged 0.55 assists per game in his career. Sure, he's played with some terrific linemates _ but let's not overstate that. He also played on some average, even mediocre, Avalanche teams in an NHL career that began in 2006. That 0.55 assist rate looks pretty damned good compared to the career assist rates of Backes (0.35) and Patrk Berglund (0.26). Over the past few seasons, no Blues' forward has an assist rate close to Stastny's 0.55 ... the best belonged to the retired Andy McDonald, who averaged around 0.47 assists per game.

• The same is true of Stastny's overall production ... he's averaged 0.85 points per game in the NHL; no Blues forward can match that. T.J. Oshie (0.69 points per game) and Alex Steen (0.68) are the closest. So in adding Stastny, the Blues immediately installed a center who has a better goal-scoring rate, and assist rate, than any center they've employed in recent seasons. That may not be worth $7 million a year, but it's worth quite a bit. And again, if Lehtera is as creative as we are led to believe -- we'll see, right? -- his creativity should generate more goals-scoring chances.

As Armstrong said on a conference call with the media yesterday: “We haven’t had a true center iceman with top-end passing skill and I think both of these guys can find their wingers. Obviously I’m betting a lot of money, but we’re more difficult to defend today than we were two days ago.

And Lehtera is a center...a scoring line center. That means Backes is either going to play wing in the top-6, or center the third line:

(Of Lehtera) He had 153 (55 goals, 98 assists) in 178 games in the KHL, after posting 170 points (47 goals, 123 assists) in 197 games in Finland.

At this year's World Championships, Lehtera had three goals and 12 points in 10 games for Finland. At the Olympics, he netted one goal and four points in six games.

The Blues have already penciled him in to center Jaden Schwartz and Vladimir Tarasenko, who played with Lehtera in the KHL during the NHL lockout in 2012-13.

"He's a big body, 6-2, 210 — very, very soft hands, a very good passer," Armstrong said. "He's a guy that can find players. I watched him at the World Championships give some guys some back-door tap ins on the power play. He's just an offensive players where his strengths are his passing skills.

"Having the opportunity to watch him play at the Olympics firsthand, watching all his games at the World Championships, talking to people I know from the Finnish Federation, there's very little question he's ready to step in and be a contributing factor in the NHL."

I think everyone agrees that Backes is a valuable center. The difference is I believe that he can be an equally valuable player at Wing. I'm sure he'll line up at both Wing and Center at times this year...but I have no doubt that he'll be playing alongside Stastny more often than behind him (or ahead of him). The Blues finally have a collection of natural-centers - it's time to put Backes back to his natural position and watch him flourish.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I think we start Backes on the RW just to give him a break from having to play all those hard minutes. I think we will still see him kill penalties as the Center, and I think he will play Center at times throughout the season, not to mention the playoffs. However, I think we're really trying to help his body not wear down as much over the course of the season by playing on the Wing.

 

[Majorityof1]

it's time to put Backes back to his natural position and watch him flourish.

What do you call what he has been doing if not flourishing? Without Backes being the amazing center he has been, the Blues are no where close to the team they are now without him. If you want quotes, here is Hitch: "What would Chicago be like with losing Toews, and for us Backes is Toews. So it's a big hole for us". Hitch compares him to one of the best centers in the league. That is hardly floundering. People get so caught up on offensive numbers they don't realize that Backes is one of the most important players in the league to his team. That is him at center, not wing.

I think we start Backes on the RW just to give him a break from having to play all those hard minutes. I think we will still see him kill penalties as the Center, and I think he will play Center at times throughout the season, not to mention the playoffs. However, I think we're really trying to help his body not wear down as much over the course of the season by playing on the Wing.

That is the only reason I would be ok with him playing wing. However, it would only be temporary. I want him back at center for the stretch run and playoffs. However, I think part of our post-season problems is that, due to our style, we have been beat up and exhausted by the end of the regular season. Blues play playoff style hockey 82 games before the playoffs start and they are exhausted when the real thing starts.

 

[Dbrownss]

That is the only reason I would be ok with him playing wing. However, it would only be temporary. I want him back at center for the stretch run and playoffs. However, I think part of our post-season problems is that, due to our style, we have been beat up and exhausted by the end of the regular season. Blues play playoff style hockey 82 games before the playoffs start and they are exhausted when the real thing starts.

This is why I'd rather he stay at center with Stastny and Lehtera. I know less TOI is viewed as a bad thing but I would find it hard to believe it wouldn't help the team down the stretch. They only maintained that elite dominant play till mid season then it tapered off.

 

[Stealth JD]

What do you call what he has been doing if not flourishing? Without Backes being the amazing center he has been, the Blues are no where close to the team they are now without him. If you want quotes, here is Hitch: "What would Chicago be like with losing Toews, and for us Backes is Toews. So it's a big hole for us". Hitch compares him to one of the best centers in the league. That is hardly floundering. People get so caught up on offensive numbers they don't realize that Backes is one of the most important players in the league to his team. That is him at center, not wing.



That is the only reason I would be ok with him playing wing. However, it would only be temporary. I want him back at center for the stretch run and playoffs. However, I think part of our post-season problems is that, due to our style, we have been beat up and exhausted by the end of the regular season. Blues play playoff style hockey 82 games before the playoffs start and they are exhausted when the real thing starts.

Way to take Hitch's quote completely out of context. Hitch was referring to Backes out of the lineup...not changing position. Simply put, yeah...Backes is one of the Blues' best players, just like Toews is...but he's not close to the same level of player that JT is. Toews is one of the leagues 5-best fowards. Backes is waaaaaay down that list.

Moving Backes out of the face-off circle, and freeing him up to cause chaos along the boards can provide a whole different dynamic. It will be interesting to see how it plays out next year, but I think the offense will improve with him at RW instead of Center.

 

[Majorityof1]

Way to take Hitch's quote completely out of context. Hitch was referring to Backes out of the lineup...not changing position. Simply put, yeah...Backes is one of the Blues' best players, just like Toews is...but he's not close to the same level of player that JT is. Toews is one of the leagues 5-best fowards. Backes is waaaaaay down that list.

Moving Backes out of the face-off circle, and freeing him up to cause chaos along the boards can provide a whole different dynamic. It will be interesting to see how it plays out next year, but I think the offense will improve with him at RW instead of Center.

Agreed that the OFFENSE would get better. The defense would get much worse. Stasny will get offensive opportunities. We won't have a shut down line to put against the top players in the league. Our goalies, who already have questions surrounding them, won't get the defensive support that they have in the past. Net gain will be negative. But as you said, we shall see what happens.

 

[Stopsight]

Way to take Hitch's quote completely out of context. Hitch was referring to Backes out of the lineup...not changing position. Simply put, yeah...Backes is one of the Blues' best players, just like Toews is...but he's not close to the same level of player that JT is. Toews is one of the leagues 5-best fowards. Backes is waaaaaay down that list.

Moving Backes out of the face-off circle, and freeing him up to cause chaos along the boards can provide a whole different dynamic. It will be interesting to see how it plays out next year, but I think the offense will improve with him at RW instead of Center.

Gonna have to disagree, particularly with the bolded.

 

[ExJbeck]

Gonna have to disagree, particularly with the bolded.

but it's true