Speculation: Darcy Regier fired 5 years ago today.

[Chainshot]

I wonder what the team would be like with Darcy. He had some bad moves at the end but some gems before. I'd rather have boring and effective

The bad drafting and rushed prospects at the end just seem like such a great fit.

 

[Baccus]

Fire him again.

 

[Club]

Press F to pay respects

 

[SundherDome]

For hiring Ron Rolston, i think at least two separate firings are in order.

Felt like that was his parting gift as a f*** you to this org.

 

[Chainshot]

Felt like that was his parting gift as a **** you to this org.

"I have committed an extensive search for the best possible candidate... in this entire hallway."

Back when hiring a bum coach got a GM turfed.

 

[SundherDome]

"I have committed an extensive search for the best possible candidate... in this entire hallway."

Back when hiring a bum coach got a GM turfed.

Capfriendly doesn't even recognize ol' Ronny lol

 

[SundherDome]

Duh

 

[Paxon]

All the criticisms of Darcy are valid but he gave us one of our best ever teams. He dealt with some terrible ownership issues from the owners being indicted and filing bankruptcy to league custodianship to video scouting/co-cap contract negotiations being handcuffed.

 

[joshjull]

The bad drafting and rushed prospects at the end just seem like such a great fit.

Its a shame he took that late path because frankly I would have preferred his boring methodical (plodding) ass to build us up after tanking to Murray/Botts

 

[Baccus]

All the criticisms of Darcy are valid but he gave us one of our best ever teams. He dealt with some terrible ownership issues from the owners being indicted and filing bankruptcy to league custodianship to video scouting/co-cap contract negotiations being handcuffed.

My only question about Darcy would be what percentage of people think those teams did so well because he was smart about the income rule changes (and their continued enforcement) or just lucky with it?

Its a shame he took that late path because frankly I would have preferred his boring methodical (plodding) ass to build us up after tanking to Murray.

Do you think Darcy would have actually done as much as Murray to get last place for Eichel and would that have been better if it wasn't a top 2 pick? And I personally believe Murray probably ripped it apart too far, let alone getting into the acceleration part.

 

[joshjull]

My only question about Darcy would be what percentage of people think those teams did so well because he was smart about the income rule changes (and their continued enforcement) or just lucky with it?



Do you think Darcy would have actually done as much as Murray to get last place for Eichel and would that have been better if it wasn't a top 2 pick? And I personally believe Murray probably ripped it apart too far, let alone getting into the acceleration part.

Yes I think Darcy would have gone far enough. He had started the tear down. Let’s also not act like purposefully building a crappy team is something hard to do. I’m continually amazed when posters have pointed to it as some sort of an accomplishment. All it takes is owner buy in to let it happen.

 

[Chainshot]

Is there apart of you that can just give Botterill a chance. You seem like a tremendous fan/poster, you have common sense but very negative about botts in the same way that I’m a bit too positive. The truth is probably somewhere in between. If he doesent grab someone like Johansson I’ll be upset. We really should of gotten Zuccarello.

I've been here 20 years and as some can point out, I have almost never been happy about management. I have had heated conversations with two different regimes (Muckler, Luce, Carriere in a game in Niagara Falls; Regier, Benning, and Carriere in the the Swannie House during lunch).

Giving Botts a chance? I'm trying but he crisped up my good will in the first year on the job. I didn't like the job he was doing before he got fleeced in the O'Reilly deal. For Jack's production, I didn't think Eichel was worth the deal Botterill gave him and then he bridged Reinhart which looks like it will cost the team in the long run. Skinner, for a guy claiming he wanted to stay, hijacked them for another million. That doesn't make it palatable.

I liked what they did this year in the draft by taking high-skill OA's in later rounds. The self-importance of those two trade-ups puts a blemish on what they were doing. To borrow a take I happen to agree with on it: it cost them two more lottery tickets when volume is more important than position.

I like that they were reportedly in the running for some players and that they didn't get any stupid contracts. He did well not to get out from under Moulson and Pominville only to jump back in with foolish money to clutter up their roster further. However, he still has measurably bad players on the team, both optically and metrically in Sobotka and Scandella who he hasn't removed by any means necessary.

Thing is, that Colin Miller deal is now apart of the Oreiilly trade and so is Johnson so if they end up being two stable defensemen in our lineup which isn’t really a long sho since Millers a proven great hand and Johnson is a first round pick that some said could go as high as 20....that’s pretty good. Obviously we’ll never win this trade but if you look at it through he eyes he didn’t know berglund and sobotka would be as useless and was trying to please the owner, and make room for skinner and everything else. Plus taking on a project like Thompson who was a first rounder himself, I know we have established he is t good but there’s still potential there. Do you remember when we were on our winning streak, Thompson came up for us three games in a row, tied the game in Detroit after losing the lead, got the shootout goal to keep us alive, all I’m saying is he’s not worthless And he’s going. Not many GMs can get five pieces for one player where a few of the pieces are first rounders.

I remember cautioning people when they were on the winning streak that they weren't playing well despite the wins, to enjoy it because it wasn't sustainable. You want a good old take, since we are in the Regier thread? Early in the '06-07 season, I posted in here that this could be the high-water mark for this team since both of the co-caps were going to be UFA and that we should enjoy that last season for all it was worth. HG practically strangled me the next time I saw her and gaf at a game after that.

As for the trade, I've been over it. I know you don't usually post in this forum, you save your energy for the NHL Board. I've been down the path that the pieces received were not worth the player - Thompson was not Thomas or even Kyrou, Berglund/Sobotka were visually and metrically and contractually poor, and they didn't get a piece like Dunn. I don't hate Thompson, I hate the trade AND I hate the inconsistency of the message from the front office about how it is all about development and earning time, yet for "their" guys, it's gifted ice and roster slots. It's a bad look and does not build morale or team cohesion.

But I’m stop talking about that deal because as I said we will never win it. Obviously also Botterill he shouldn’t be credited for taking dahlin as anyone outside Waddell would take him. (Due to Tom Dundon lol) but let’s not forget he also grabbed montour. This is someone everybody wanted.

I think pilut and montour on our team in training camp to start the season will make a huge difference, as well with dahlin one year in and colin Miller, some pressure will be taken off risto and he may even be better because of it. A little too soon for UPL but who knows he could come in and do well for a few games, even Ullmark could be with experience too. With this improved d and luckily Botterill gave Hutton just a two yeR deal incase he’s the Hutton of the second half. There’s definitely A lot of coulds by denying that, but remember those “coulds” have to also go bad In order for them to not work out as Well. It’s a crap shoot, all of it.

I like the moves toward mobile offensive defensemen. I don't like how Pilut was twisted by the old coach and the GM did nothing to step in there. There is a clear question of how the teams views player impact that does not fit with what we can observe externally, especially with how Pilut is the only partner to get Risto to a break even point in terms of shots for and against.

Ullmark... I don't know. I'm not impressed by his body of work so far in North America. I liked a bit of what I saw before he came over, but goalies are such voodoo. Hutton played like we expected over the full range of games, but what we didn't get was consistency. He went from uncharacteristically high save percentage to the opposite.

As of now UPL is on the shelf with the same hip surgery that Ullmark had and is going to have to be metered in his minutes and games played. Looking for him early will likely be disappointing - he's got to get healthy first and then show he can handle the rigors of the pro game in the same fashion he did in Sudbury. THEN he's due for a look. And still, goalies are voodoo - I wouldn't be keen to bank on him being a starter quality NHLer this soon. Would it be awesome if he turns out to be that, and it happens quickly? Damn right it would be. It just almost never happens (not just in Buffalo, but in general).

I will have to see how he handles free agency but there’s a lot of good things happening to our team right now. I know people have been saying this every couple years but I e never seen the d look this stable in at least a decade at least on paper. We need offense ad I did not like skinners contract but in this market he was going to get 8 no matter what.

I’m going to be open minded with him still but not everyone will. Do you just for clarification have it already made up your mind that he’s an awful GM? Or is that a stretch?

Is the defense actually stable though? They have 9 NHL bodies at the moment and it isn't clear what they will do for roles. Scandella remains. They just spent a season cleaning up after waiting to see what a coach could do with players in the previous season - it's time to stop hoping a player might maybe someday be good again and move on. He's the first one off the boot on the blueline since a defensive defenseman who can't defend is a clear detriment to the team. At least Risto's lack of ES defensive chops can be balanced against his raw scoring productivity, but Scandella? Nope. Bogosian is again hurt to start a season, one in which he is UFA at the end of and has not proven to be worth the contract he's on in the least. Pilut's also hurt and there is no clear indication that the team recognizes his value. Miller's a nice add in a cap squeeze and yet he was a scratch in the season and in the playoffs which should bear more scrutiny than it has. Montour was an interesting addition, yet it seems more that he'll be in the "fun" category 5-on-5 because he gets the puck up the ice on the rush and is not good at defending. McCabe is like smaller Bogosian - unreliable. He's started to actually get better in his own zone and he got hurt again, derailing AGAIN a season, albeit this time as he was starting to play well. Hunwick is overpaid for being a 7. Nelson is actually good at being a 6/7 on a cheap deal.

As for offense... after two full years on the job, Botterill has turned up two forwards in Skinner and Sheary who might be deemed worthwhile. He's had a metric ass ton that have not. I haven't seen anything in three summers that puts my growing sense of dread at what, if anything, he has as a plan that will put players on the ice who are better than what we have seen for a number of years now.

Perhaps I'm not willing to look at what the team does as "good" while you always seem irrepressibly embracing whatever they have done as good. Maybe your way is better. I know that I'm too old to change my spots at this point.

 

[Buffaloed]

Yes I think Darcy would have gone far enough. He had started the tear down. Let’s also not act like purposefully building a crappy team is something hard to do. I’m continually amazed when posters have pointed to it as some sort of an accomplishment. All it takes is owner buy in to let it happen.

Ted Black is the man that led the Sabres into the abyss and he largely escapes criticism. As team president he set the team on a course to finish last at all costs. No thought went into the tear down of the Sabres other than get rid of everyone that could help us win. Hiring Black was probably Pegula's biggest mistake.

 

[Baccus]

Yes I think Darcy would have gone far enough. He had started the tear down. Let’s also not act like purposefully building a crappy team is something hard to do. I’m continually amazed when posters have pointed to it as some sort of an accomplishment. All it takes is owner buy in to let it happen.

I don't necessarily disagree. Though I think that the frantic worry over getting either McDavid or Eichel and how literally close we still came to failing shows securing last place isn't easy, a bad team is far easier. A bad team gets lower picks, is that alone enough? Perhaps, though it seems like you generally still need a lottery win somewhere along the way.

Granted the changes in the lottery since make the full on crash to the bottom far less worth doing.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Interestingly enough its been downhill ever since Darcy and Ruff leaving.

 

[Chainshot]

I've tried to learn something watching different Sabre GM's over the years. Punch was not being so in love with one's own creation as to not change it. Scotty? Be cautious of falling in love with one's own draft picks (and also, don't have an ego so large while wearing the HC hat that one makes punishment trades). Meehan? Don't always capitulate to the coach (hello waiving Ray Sheppard) and always watch out for usurpers. Muckler? Don't obsess over your own guys (Fuhr) and toughness can be fun. Oh, and don't get caught in a power struggle between the coach, the star player, and members of ownership. Regier? Draft well and draft for skill and don't ignore the farm.

If they had the sort of attention to the farm team that they do now at the start of the tear down, they're likely more akin to the Leafs in '15-16 who had a solid handful of potential quality forwards on their AHL roster that season.

 

[Dreakon13]

Interestingly enough its been downhill ever since Darcy and Ruff leaving.

Considering Darcy was fired right around the start of the teardown, I think it was always meant to go downhill after they left.

 

[Chainshot]

Considering Darcy was fired right around the start of the teardown, I think it was always meant to go downhill after they left.

Darcy had already made a variety of the teardown deals and then he brought in Rolston. It was already in motion.

 

[joshjull]

I don't necessarily disagree. Though I think that the frantic worry over getting either McDavid or Eichel and how literally close we still came to failing shows securing last place isn't easy, a bad team is far easier. A bad team gets lower picks, is that alone enough? Perhaps, though it seems like you generally still need a lottery win somewhere along the way.

Granted the changes in the lottery since make the full on crash to the bottom far less worth doing.

Good post and points.

Let me put it this way as it pertains to Regier as well as tanking and climbing back out of a tear down. He had already done a very successful tear down and rebuild. He also did it under far more difficult conditions (bankruptcy/NHL ownership) than the recent tear down/rebuild. He managed to come out of that with one of the best teams in the NHL with a deep talent pool. His highest pick and only top 10 pick in that time was 5th overall in 2003 (Vanek). Got boned in the Crosby draft year lottery (ending up with 13th).

Unfortunately he had to watch much of that talent leave due to the ownership at the time’s contract policies. Then had his hands tied as a budget team (the dollar in/dollar out days) as well as a gutted scouting department replaced with video scouting. All of which made replacing what was lost a lot more difficult.

A tear down and rebuild is right in the wheelhouse of Regier’s strengths. Where his ability to maximizing trades on his own time table would be a huge asset. That plodding methodical approach of maximizing trades to gather as many assets as possible then letting them grow would have been great to have from 2014 onward.

I think Regier would have no issue building a team to bottom out. But more importantly it wouldn’t be his singular focus nor would the rebuild hinge on bottoming out that year either. Which seemed such a singular focus at the expense of other things at the time under Murray.

 

[Chainshot]

Regier's lack of commitment to the AHL side of the shop transcended three ownership groups. His drafting history is spotty and perhaps it is because they did such a terrible job of development in his tenure. Tearing down and acquisition of assets? Sure. Drafting and building? Not sold on him.

 

[joshjull]

Regier's lack of commitment to the AHL side of the shop transcended three ownership groups. His drafting history is spotty and perhaps it is because they did such a terrible job of development in his tenure. Tearing down and acquisition of assets? Sure. Drafting and building? Not sold on him.

Fair enough. I’m also not sold he would be a guy you want around after the bulk of the rebuild work was done. But its hard to argue the success of his previous rebuild and the amount of talent he had in the organization at the time.

 

[tsujimoto74]

misunderstood the post topic:

Darcy overvaluing all of his players will always be his biggest crime.

He had a good eye for goaltending talent.

That worked both to his advantage and disadvantage, at different times. We handily won most of the trades he made, but he was never very aggressive about pursuing players who were available and missed out on some good opportunities as a result.

 

[Baccus]

Regier's lack of commitment to the AHL side of the shop transcended three ownership groups. His drafting history is spotty and perhaps it is because they did such a terrible job of development in his tenure. Tearing down and acquisition of assets? Sure. Drafting and building? Not sold on him.

Yeah, I think he could have done the tear down, though I question if he would go balls out to get McEichel. (ignoring if it was necessary or whatever)

The bolded is a great way of summing him up for me.

 

[Chainshot]

Fair enough. I’m also not sold he would be a guy you want around after the bulk of the rebuild work was done. But its hard to argue the success of his previous rebuild and the amount of talent he had in the organization at the time.

It's like they need a mixture of their last four GM's.

Take from Regier generally the winning of deals. From Botterill, take the emphasis on the farm club. From Murray, take the boldness to move swiftly to acquire identified talent. And from Muckler, have an eye for identifying talent (Peca in the Mogilny trade, some of the financial teardown he did with the Blues).

Instead we have the bad drafting/developing Regier, the only successful emphasis being the farm from Botterill, Murray boldly identifying broken players, and Muckler also not drafting particularly well. Bleh. I think I need a coffee.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, I think he could have done the tear down, though I question if he would go balls out to get McEichel. (ignoring if it was necessary or whatever)

The bolded is a great way of summing him up for me.

Maybe he wouldn’t go balls out for McEichel, maybe he would.

But I don’t get the sentiment that he isn’t a builder that you’re agreeing with from @Chainshot.

He certainly has his warts. But he literally tore down and then rebuilt the Sabres into one of the best teams in the NHL. By any reasonable measure what he did would be building.