Player Discussion Dan Girardi: Part V

[eco's bones]

Has nothing to do with clutch. Every team ever puts their best players on the ice in "clutch" situations.

There are moments that are turning points---are there not? There are some players (not a lot of them mind you) who consistently tend to have a positive impact to their own team's benefit in turning point moments whether it's a single game or directly impacting a playoff series--though almost any player can have them.

There are even turning point games where a season goes north or south for a team. I understand that this is not a conversation that some people here want to have relative to Rick Nash. They'd rather have it that all goals (no matter the game or the game situation) count for the same. But there are goals and there are Goals and then there are GOALS. Guys like Kane, Toews, Keith if they were to quit tomorrow are going to the HOF because there have been so many moments that really counted and that they were the guys to have those big moments. And speaking personally I don't even like Kane very much.

 

[eco's bones]

Can you give an example of a team that doesn't put out its top offensive players in those situations?

It's not that all teams don't do it. It's that the best players for some teams do it better than the best for others and it's not always because one guy is more talented than another. Justin Williams for one example has talent but he's hardly elite. Nonetheless he's had lots of big moments. But I suspect you already know that.

 

[JohnC]

Can you give an example of a team that doesn't put out its top offensive players in those situations?

AV and Glass?

 

[Ail]

Mike Rupp scored two goals in the Winter Classic and without him the Rangers probably do not win, is Mike ****ing Rupp a clutch player? Would you play him in game 7 of the SCF down a goal going in to the final minutes of the third?

 

[Miamipuck]

AV and Glass?

This is an awesome post, take that smilie out you don't need it lol.

 

[Miamipuck]

There are certain people that do not seize up during pressure situations. It's proven that not all people can think and act clearly in high stress environments.

For instance Seal training, they say they can train a monkey to swim, run and lift logs to prepare for their B.U.D.S course. But no ordinary monkey can do it on three hours sleep over a 3 or 4 days period and still think clearly and act in an environment that requires teamwork to perform physical and mental tasks.

Obviously that's not how the NHL works. So does it carry over to sports and such, I think it does, to an extent. Look at a head coach. I think they can affect the team, as players will sense nervousness, frustration or the opposite, they can sense calm and confidence. That carries forward to their team.



So there may be a propensity for certain types to excel in certain situations.

Is that clutch, not clutch?


Edit: I figured the Seal training analogy works in a Girardi thread. Hahahahaha

 

[we want cup]

Mike Rupp scored two goals in the Winter Classic and without him the Rangers probably do not win, is Mike ****ing Rupp a clutch player? Would you play him in game 7 of the SCF down a goal going in to the final minutes of the third?

Mike Rupp scored a Stanley Cup winning goal for the Devils.

 

[Ail]

Mike Rupp scored a Stanley Cup winning goal for the Devils.

Is he clutch though? Would you put Rupp on the ice when you need a goal over your teams best players? How about Max Talbot?

 

[TheTakedown]

Yandle played a part in that Vancouver goal. If that was a player that one of you didn't like, they'd probably have received full blame from a lot of you.

Yandle is partially at fault, yes. Klein leaves burrows completely wide open in the slot though

 

[mrhockey193195]

Is he clutch though? Would you put Rupp on the ice when you need a goal over your teams best players? How about Max Talbot?

They are players who have, throughout their career, shown that they perform well - maybe even to the upper level of their (limited) abilities - when they're in high pressure situations. That's a valuable trait in a player. Other players have shown the opposite - whether it's due to nerves, or deficient desire and motivation.

In no way, shape, or form am I putting those guys out in the final minute of a game when I need a goal. But at the same time, I'm not feeling comfortable if Alexei Yashin is my best player on the ice in the final minute when I need a goal, either, even though he was a tremendous offensive player and a high scorer in the regular season. I'm not feeling comfortable with Roman Turek in net.

 

[Ail]

In no way, shape, or form am I putting those guys out in the final minute of a game when I need a goal.

Why? This is contradictory to the idea they have the clutch trait.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Why? This is contradictory to the idea they have the clutch trait.

Nope, not contradictory. Let me reiterate the main part of my opinion.

They are players who have, throughout their career, shown that they perform well - maybe even to the upper level of their (limited) abilities - when they're in high pressure situations. That's a valuable trait in a player. Other players have shown the opposite - whether it's due to nerves, or deficient desire and motivation.

Some players - Talbot, John Madden, Kris Draper, to name a few - play at their highest level when the pressure is high. Playoff games. Elimination games. Third periods. These guys clearly feed off of the pressure in a constructive way, and enjoy the limelight. That's why they are great guys to have on your team in your bottom six. They check better, they make better plays in the defensive zone, sometimes they even chip in with an odd goal that you wouldn't have expected from them otherwise.

Other players do the opposite - they crumble under the pressure, they succumb to nerves, they grip their sticks too tightly, and make worse decisions , all because of the situation.

That being said, guys like Draper and Madden still aren't your top offensive players. They are your checkers who might help out with a little offense here or there. You want your top guys out there with one minute left to score a goal and tie the game. Hopefully - and it's necessary if you are going to be a successful team - your top offensive players also raise their level of play when the pressure rises. Sakic, Messier, Yzerman, Crosby. Even the non-superstars who are in your top six - guys like Justin Williams, Claude Lemieux, Jamie Langenbrunner, Trevor Linden. Those are the guys you also want on your team, and those are the guys you throw out there with a minute left because they can score goals with frequency.

If your top offensive players are guys like Tkachuk, Yashin, Petr Nedved - all great scorers, but all guys who tended to struggle when the going got tough, or who looked uncomfortable when the pressure was on - then you're in trouble as a team, regardless of who's in your bottom six.

All of that in mind, that doesn't preclude the bottom six guys from being "clutch" (I hate that word) and raising their level of play in crucial games.

 

[we want cup]

Is he clutch though? Would you put Rupp on the ice when you need a goal over your teams best players? How about Max Talbot?

Obviously I wouldn't put him on the ice over my best players, but if all else were roughly equal between two players and one had a habit of scoring goals in big moments, I'd certainly play him over the other guy. I'd also try to make sure that the guys who I have in my roster are the kinds of guys who play their best hockey in the Spring and Summer rather than the Fall or Winter.

 

[member 116805]

So i guess Brooks now has confirmed with G's agen that he has a NMC, and not a limited NTC

 

[member 116805]

https://twitter.com/AdamRotter/status/691092232791793664?s=01

 

[member 116805]

Guess i should takenthe champagne off the ice

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

What a bummer. Although let's be real Girardi isn't being moved until the expansion draft

 

[DanielBrassard]

He was staying regardless but that ****ing sucks

 

[Machinehead]

He wasn't going anywhere anyway

 

[mrhockey193195]

Dan's played a boat load better the past month than the beginning of the season - though that really isn't saying much, given how bad he was through 35 games. I have a gut feeling that he keeps this level of play up the rest of the way and becomes and asset for the team.

 

[Raspewtin]

Dan's played a boat load better the past month than the beginning of the season - though that really isn't saying much, given how bad he was through 35 games. I have a gut feeling that he keeps this level of play up the rest of the way and becomes and asset for the team.

This is being extremely generous imo.

 

[TheTakedown]

Dan's played a boat load better the past month than the beginning of the season - though that really isn't saying much, given how bad he was through 35 games. I have a gut feeling that he keeps this level of play up the rest of the way and becomes and asset for the team.

no, sorry... he's been DECENT at best about 5 games now... which, unfortunately, is a very small sample size compared to the last 100 games where he's looked like a 2nd-3rd pairing defenseman...

he still needs to be traded--he'll never be an asset for a contending team other than shoring up the 3rd pairing

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Some people have this habit of coming out with truisms--picking up a busload of adherents and next thing you know anyone who questions it is some kind of nut. The field of politics is just rife with similar ****.

The existence of Justin Williams deconstructs that particular statement as well. Mark Messier if you want a Rangers example. Willing a team to win and just carrying it on his back--his playoff hat trick against New Jersey when we were about as dead as dead can be. I turned off the TV already that night and was thinking about jumping off a bridge.

Funny, me too--couldn't stand the thought of having to wait until next year again. I've never seen that whole game.

 

[Chimpradamus]

What a bummer. Although let's be real Girardi isn't being moved until the expansion draft

Watch this team protect him and give up the rights to someone like Zuccarello instead.

 

[RangerBoy]

I can't believe the twitter people were wrong about Girardi. But they asked the agent.........

Meehan told Brooks the limited NTC is 15 teams. Not bad. There might be an expansion draft before the 4th season but that's not guaranteed.