Post-Game Talk: Dallas wins 4-1

[Jet]

Clearly Stanley's fault.

Shows you how stupid those charts are.

 

[Jet]

I had great hopes Neal would return to form, but if he hasn’t lit the burners on the new, long two-way game, he may have shown he can’t fit Coach’s new plans..
On the other hand, if Arniel and Bowness can motivate the vets to go more cardio in training, (not bag skate) just go the distance, maybe there will be more D support in the Ozone..The eye test tonight showed that in a lot of cases, there were only 2-3 fwds up there..

It’s almost as if the faster teams intimidated our D to hang back..
Perhaps more real training sessions with the new positional system might give hope. At this point, I’m just looking for signs that the fwds and D can find the legs and wind to implement the plan.
Having the Coach on scene as incident commander would be a blessing in the next game. I don’t even care if we don’t win as long as the team can stick like glue to the plan and keeps faith in Bones.
As for slower players (we know who they are) the axe is going to fall sooner or later.
Another six games should be the maximum for seeing that improvement. A few wins with more stamina for the 2-way play (and accountability for those coasting) should give us a springboard.

I don't really think it's conditioning, I think it's psychological. When you're unsure and lack confidence, you stop skating and being aggressive. You start second guessing plays which leads to bad passes and turnovers. They became so passive and were reacting to everything. At one point in the second they couldn't even make a simple D switch.

 

[surixon]

I don't really think it's conditioning, I think it's psychological. When you're unsure and lack confidence, you stop skating and being aggressive. You start second guessing plays which leads to bad passes and turnovers. They became so passive and were reacting to everything. At one point in the second they couldn't even make a simple D switch.

Agreed. I think we need to wait another 8 games before we can really see which players are adapting and which aren't.

I'm not all that concerned yet as I figured there would always be these types of growing pains.

 

[Huffer]

It's early so not going to go full panic mode yet.

Early concerns on similar issues from previous years though, especially on consistent breakouts and turning pucks over at our blue line. Not sure if it's more on the D, or if it's the forwards that are missing assignments, but that's an area that needs to improve IMO.

 

[WaveRaven]

I generally write off the first ten with a new staff. But I am frightened already.

 

[Roughneck1]

He did screen helly tho on one goal and took a penalty on the pkto make it 4 1. So stats are great but, they don't tell you the whole story.

And the Dallas dman had all day to place his shot with no foreword anywhere around to contest him. That play was far from Stanley’s fault. The whole line was running around.

 

[Jets 31]

One other thing i saw last night alot was our forwards working hard in Dallas's zone and getting the puck back to the point to our defenseman only for our defenseman to just dump the puck in to the corner. Shoot the puck defensemen , just put it towards the net at least.

 

[Buffdog]

I think it became very evident early that bowness's new system without the puck it to pressure in all three zones with close support

What I haven't figured out yet is what they're trying to do WITH the puck. Seems like in the o zone everyone is spread out and there are lots of rims around the boards to the weak side, but we're losing the puck a lot. That results in an easy zone exit for the opponent, and now we're back in our own end chasing.

When we do happen to establish something in the o zone, there always seems to be close puck support

 

[Gabe Kupari]

And the Dallas dman had all day to place his shot with no foreword anywhere around to contest him. That play was far from Stanley’s fault. The whole line was running around.

When your 6th d is on the ice or a goal results because of his stupidity its time for change. Stats can say what they want but stats are for losers and doesn't tell you the whole picture. Is Stanley the biggest issue on D? No, pionk is as he's top 4 and sucks. But I don't think Stanley is ever gonna be anything more than a slow 6 7 D.

 

[surixon]

I think it became very evident early that bowness's new system without the puck it to pressure in all three zones with close support

What I haven't figured out yet is what they're trying to do WITH the puck. Seems like in the o zone everyone is spread out and there are lots of rims around the boards to the weak side, but we're losing the puck a lot. That results in an easy zone exit for the opponent, and now we're back in our own end chasing.

When we do happen to establish something in the o zone, there always seems to be close puck support

Yeah I haven't really figured that out yet myself. My guess is most of the focus to date has been play without the puck. I imagine we see offensive improvements as the year goes forward.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I'm willing to give this 25 games.
It is a tough schedule but this is big boy hockey and they will hopefully figure it out...having said that I had 2 glasses of wine and zonked out before the end of the second it sucks to get old lololol

 

[Jetland162702]

Yikes, I think Bones has his work cut out for him. Dallas is really not that great a team yet from the 10 minute mark of the first period they controlled the game. This team plays soft even though we have some size.
On a side note, I have been a quiet supporter of Stanley but his biggest asset is his size and if he plays soft, then it might be time to move on and see what Samberg has to offer.

 

[SUX2BU]

I'm willing to give them once again until Amercian Thanksgiving (Nov 24th). Otherwise, maybe it's time to move some "interchangeable parts"

That's after game 18

 

[garret9]

Pionk seems to struggle with everyone no?

Did good with Kulikov 2019-20 and Forbort 2020-21, but otherwise ya.

 

[TommyKillian]

One bright spot: I noticed Scheifele make several nice defensive plays deep in our zone. A few good checks, intercepted passes, disrupted plays. He has such a great mind he makes difficult plays look easy. Nice to see him doing it in all three zones again.

 

[garret9]

Once again proving advanced analytics are complete nonsense.

If kidding, no worries. But if serious, not sure how or why.

The numbers above are just the average impact someone gives if they are in a similar situation in those variables...

For example with Stanley:
His penalties are given the average impact in taking 2 penalties. It's not showing that the team scored on both.
It's showing the average value in a shot taking at particular shot locations, context and such. So it's not looking specific blame in particular goals/shots.

Analytics tell you exactly what you tell you. The issue generally comes more from interpretation of said numbers.

 

[ffh]

When your 6th d is on the ice or a goal results because of his stupidity its time for change. Stats can say what they want but stats are for losers and doesn't tell you the whole picture. Is Stanley the biggest issue on D? No, pionk is as he's top 4 and sucks. But I don't think Stanley is ever gonna be anything more than a slow 6 7 D

so he isnt the biggest issue on defence and all he'll be is a 6/7 dman. what's the problem

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I think we saw Bownes's system working as intended yesterday. Problem was it was the wrong team showing us it works. This game tape should be the template for what we are trying to achieve, but with the Stars providing the example.

Dallas was relentless with their forechecking and neutral zone pressure. We had players being getting picked pocketed all night long from behind, thinking they had more time entering the offensive zone.

Other side notes:

Ehlers needs to be more direct with his play in the offensive zone. Lots off effort, little results. You are starting to see Scheif and Connor standing still not quite sure what Ehlers end game is.

I would like to see him look for seams to get pucks to the net, when he is cycling around, rather than continually looking for a magical pass or lane to open up to the net.

You see the contrast with our outer perimeter zone play compared to the Stars direct play on the power play. We spent over 2 minutes looking for a magical seam pass while they continually pressured our net with shots and front crease presence.

Samberg in Stanley out next game.

Pionk and Demelo went from our best pairing D to our worst in a single game. Consistency needs to be achieved this year or we are a lottery team.

Demelo did not play great this game again, but unlike last game, Morrissey was not great either.

Third line was good again, liking Barron more and more and Appleton is playing more physical which makes that line heavy and hard to deal with.

Second line needs to improve in both ends.

Bottom 6 was solid again.

I did not think we played an awful game, but we were faced with a gameplan that was executed properly by a team that has been executing it for a couple of seasons now.

If anything, Dallas provided us with confirmation that this system works by how difficult it is to play against it, when done the right way.

 

[garret9]

Shows you how stupid those charts are.

How?

 

[MardyBum]

Need Bowness back behind the bench, but good lord can we have one game where each D pairing is good?

Seems our best games are something like a 55-45 and our worsts are 30-70's.

Hopefully he's back behind the bench Wednesday and they can steal a game or two out of this tough stretch while they work their shit out.

It kinda sucks that even though Bowness talks about earning your spot and keeping it through good play, it's really gonna only happen between Stanley, Samberg and other guy. Stanley/Schmidt as a pairing were bad in game 1, but Dillon/Pionk were just awful in game 2.

 

[sipowicz]

Take your son to work day

Team really did not execute their game. Really poor passing and puck decisions, that all started when they stopped being aggressive and skating. It's going to take a while for them to break their bad habits, they really need their hc right now.

Stan has to come out. He was stumbling and bumbling all over. If you could make an argument for having him in the lineup it would have been against Dallas a they're a big, aggressive team, but he really didn't use his size to his advantage at all.

I agree that they need to rebalance the top 6, swapping perfetti for Connor would be a good start.

as bad as Stan was, Pionk and Schmshit weren’t any better!

don’t have much confidence in our D group, Morrissey would be the only D man who could be considered legit top 4

 

[ennsjd07]

If kidding, no worries. But if serious, not sure how or why.

The numbers above are just the average impact someone gives if they are in a similar situation in those variables...

For example with Stanley:
His penalties are given the average impact in taking 2 penalties. It's not showing that the team scored on both.
It's showing the average value in a shot taking at particular shot locations, context and such. So it's not looking specific blame in particular goals/shots.

Analytics tell you exactly what you tell you. The issue generally comes more from interpretation of said numbers.

Garret, I for one have really appreciated your analysis. I like letting my eye test AND the numbers give me more of a picture of the world as seen by many/numbers rather than just the world as I see it.

The world is not often as I see it, I have found.

 

[ecolad]

I thought that the most disappointing thing about our play overall was that of the special teams, especially the PK. Maybe I simply got my expectations too high far too early this year, but where oh where did the aggressive puck pressure go? We did get into position well enough but there was little to no pressure on the puck carrier anywhere!! And it resulted in constant quality shots against.

 

[surixon]

I think we saw Bownes's system working as intended yesterday. Problem was it was the wrong team showing us it works. This game tape should be the template for what we are trying to achieve, but with the Stars providing the example.

Dallas was relentless with their forechecking and neutral zone pressure. We had players being getting picked pocketed all night long from behind, thinking they had more time entering the offensive zone.

Other side notes:

Ehlers needs to be more direct with his play in the offensive zone. Lots off effort, little results. You are starting to see Scheif and Connor standing still not quite sure what Ehlers end game is.

I would like to see him look for seams to get pucks to the net, when he is cycling around, rather than continually looking for a magical pass or lane to open up to the net.

You see the contrast with our outer perimeter zone play compared to the Stars direct play on the power play. We spent over 2 minutes looking for a magical seam pass while they continually pressured our net with shots and front crease presence.

Samberg in Stanley out next game.

Pionk and Demelo went from our best pairing D to our worst in a single game. Consistency needs to be achieved this year or we are a lottery team.

Demelo did not play great this game again, but unlike last game, Morrissey was not great either.

Third line was good again, liking Barron more and more and Appleton is playing more physical which makes that line heavy and hard to deal with.

Second line needs to improve in both ends.

Bottom 6 was solid again.

I did not think we played an awful game, but we were faced with a gameplan that was executed properly by a team that has been executing it for a couple of seasons now.

If anything, Dallas provided us with confirmation that this system works by how difficult it is to play against it, when done the right way.

Well one would hope that after 4 years of it they'd be proficient at the system. I'd call their scheme Bowness plus as DeBoer has built creative offensive schemes that play to his teams strengths ontop of it.

I'm going to see where this group is at around game 15.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Well one would hope that after 4 years of it they'd be proficient at the system. I'd call their scheme Bowness plus as DeBoer has built creative offensive schemes that play to his teams strengths ontop of it.

I'm going to see where this group is at around game 15.

For sure Deboer has input to the final product, and agree 15 - 20 game mark before we know which way we are trending.