Proposal: DAL-TOR-CHI

[Americanadian]

Disclaimer: this is only applicable if Dallas loses and wants to add an impact player.

To CHI: 50% of Marner’s salary (5.45M), DAL 2024 1st, Faksa, Liljegren
To DAL: Marner (50% retained)
To TOR: Murphy, Stankoven

Dallas can afford to re-sign Marner, Dallas is also a popular location amongst players so I’m assuming Marner would waive.

Edit: Dallas made it through Vegas so I doubt they would feel the need for this level of shake up now.

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[EK392000]

Does the cost of retention depend on the AAV or actual dollars owed? IIRC, Marner is owed a hefty signing bonus and his actual salary for next season is around 800k. Suppose Leafs pay the signing bonus, does it really cost a 1st round pick to retain 50% if the salary is 800k? Especially to a team that needs help reaching the cap floor.

 

[Americanadian]

Does the cost of retention depend on the AAV or actual dollars owed? IIRC, Marner is owed a hefty signing bonus and his actual salary for next season is around 800k. Suppose Leafs pay the signing bonus, does it really cost a 1st round pick to retain 50% if the salary is 800k? Especially to a team that needs help reaching the cap floor.

Chicago is also giving up Murphy. It’s essentially Murphy for 1st, Liljegren, Faksa (cap dump), Marner’a retention which is <400k.

 

[Mrfenn92]

No thanks from Chicago

 

[Bruce Granville]

I don‘t see any impact player added to Dallas…

 

[Mrfenn92]

Also don’t see Dallas moving stank at all

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Marner + Liljegren for Stankoven + Murphy is trash for the Leafs. Yeah Marner sucked again in playoffs, but still.

 

[Americanadian]

I don‘t see any impact player added to Dallas…

It would be the player that out produced every player on their roster in 69 games this year.

Marner + Liljegren for Stankoven + Murphy is trash for the Leafs. Yeah Marner sucked again in playoffs, but still.

Contracts and team control matter here.

 

[hawksrule]

Chicago’s taking on 11 million in salary for just a late 1st?

 

[Americanadian]

No thanks from Chicago

From a Chicago POV what else would be required? I get that fans don’t care about real $ owed but from an owners POV Chicago saves money going from Murphy to Faksa+Marner retention.

Chicago’s taking on 11 million in salary for just a late 1st?

Chicago takes on 4.25M in this trade.

 

[Bruce Granville]

It would be the player that out produced every player on their roster in 69 games this year.


Contracts and team control matter here.

He didn‘t play for them…apples, oranges.

 

[hawksrule]

From a Chicago POV what else would be required? I get that fans don’t care about real $ owed but from an owners POV Chicago saves money going from Murphy to Faksa+Marner retention.


Chicago takes on 4.25M in this trade.

How so? I’m on my phone and don’t feel like looking it up, but isn’t Marner at 5.5 and the other two guys combined about five?

 

[Americanadian]

How so? I’m on my phone and don’t feel like looking it up, but isn’t Marner at 5.5 and the other two guys combined about five?

5.45+3.2-4.4=4.25

They can chose what to do with liljegren but given he’s an RFA I’m not counting him.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

A 3-way deal after his SB might be the best way to move him.

However I think your trade is fundamentally flawed. Dallas isn't in need of Marner that much and I'm not sure they can afford him with Oetter getting a raise that summer as well as needing to sign like 3 defensemen. Stankoven having the extra year of ELC is pretty important for them.
Furthermore I don't see Chicago using one of their only 2 retention slots on a smer trade when they have their own guys to trade (ie Hall). Lastly the return is probably not what Toronto is looking for in a Marner deal. Any Marner return pretty much has to include a quality defenseman or starting goaltender. Murphy isn't bad but he's probably not the quality of player they want.

 

[Americanadian]

A 3-way deal after his SB might be the best way to move him.

However I think your trade is fundamentally flawed. Dallas isn't in need of Marner that much and I'm not sure they can afford him with Oetter getting a raise that summer as well as needing to sign like 3 defensemen. Stankoven having the extra year of ELC is pretty important for them.
Furthermore I don't see Chicago using one of their only 2 retention slots on a smer trade when they have their own guys to trade (ie Hall). Lastly the return is probably not what Toronto is looking for in a Marner deal. Any Marner return pretty much has to include a quality defenseman or starting goaltender. Murphy isn't bad but he's probably not the quality of player they want.

Who else would Chicago be saving a retention spot for besides Hall and Murphy (gone in this deal)? The difference between Athanasiou retained vs not retained is maybe a 4th.

Dallas will have plenty of room to re-sign all of Marner, Robertson, Johnston, Oettinger in 2025. They currently have <40M locked up on a projected 92M cap for 2025.

As far as Toronto’s needs - they need to spread out their scoring. Their issue is they can’t score, not that they can’t defend or stop pucks. Marner isn’t bringing back a top 5 goalie or #1 D so they need the get the most value.

 

[Americanadian]

He didn‘t play for them…apples, oranges.

Marner also has a higher career P/GP in the playoffs that any current Dallas player.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Marner also has a higher career P/GP in the playoffs that any current Dallas player.

Yeah, they should re-sign him then…

 

[Mrfenn92]

Not sure how Dallas would afford Marner long term also. Wyatt, Harley, esa all needing deals soon enough. Seguin still on the cap. And in a few years Tim’e Jake and Jason.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Who else would Chicago be saving a retention spot for besides Hall and Murphy (gone in this deal)? The difference between Athanasiou retained vs not retained is maybe a 4th.

Dallas will have plenty of room to re-sign all of Marner, Robertson, Johnston, Oettinger in 2025. They currently have <40M locked up on a projected 92M cap for 2025.

As far as Toronto’s needs - they need to spread out their scoring. Their issue is they can’t score, not that they can’t defend or stop pucks. Marner isn’t bringing back a top 5 goalie or #1 D so they need the get the most value.

It's about the option. Chicago may acquire a player this off-season that they want to retain on at the deadline. This trade locks them I to just 1 retention slot.

Actually I thought Benn had an extra year on his deal. You may be right that they can probably afford Marner. The issue is Johnston and Oetter also need extensions that year

I didn't say Marner needs to bring back a #1D but I could absolutely see someone like Pionk, Hronek, Parayko, etc as part of a return. I could also absolutely see Binnington or Saros being available in a trade for Marner.

 

[Mrfenn92]

It's about the option. Chicago may acquire a player this off-season that they want to retain on at the deadline. This trade locks them I to just 1 retention slot.

Actually I thought Benn had an extra year on his deal. You may be right that they can probably afford Marner. The issue is Johnston and Oetter also need extensions that year

I didn't say Marner needs to bring back a #1D but I could absolutely see someone like Pionk, Hronek, Parayko, etc as part of a return. I could also absolutely see Binnington or Saros being available in a trade for Marner.

Benn has one more year after this season

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Benn has one more year after this season

Yes, it ends at the same time Marner's deal ends. That was my point

 

[Americanadian]

It's about the option. Chicago may acquire a player this off-season that they want to retain on at the deadline. This trade locks them I to just 1 retention slot.

In a league where retention mid-season is worth a 4th, I don't think they need to concern themselves too much with only having 1 available for 1 season.

I didn't say Marner needs to bring back a #1D but I could absolutely see someone like Pionk, Hronek, Parayko, etc as part of a return. I could also absolutely see Binnington or Saros being available in a trade for Marner.

The issue here is I don't see Marner waiving to go to Vancouver, Winnipeg or St. Louis. I could see him waiving for Nashville but I don't think a Saros deal is the right move for Toronto (pending UFA who could get Bobrovsky money). They need young players with team control.

There is a good chance he only wants to waive for teams that have no income tax, warm weather and are a contender so VGK, DAL, FLA, TB.

 

[Americanadian]

Actually I thought Benn had an extra year on his deal. You may be right that they can probably afford Marner. The issue is Johnston and Oetter also need extensions that year

They also clear Suter's money and they clear out the bonus overage from Pavelski. I'd guess Oettinger and Johnston both get 8.5M and fall in line with Heiskanen and Hintz (increase of 12M). Marner probably gets 11M (5.5M increase). They'd be fine under a 92M cap.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In a league where retention mid-season is worth a 4th, I don't think they need to concern themselves too much with only having 1 available for 1 season.

The issue here is I don't see Marner waiving to go to Vancouver, Winnipeg or St. Louis. I could see him waiving for Nashville but I don't think a Saros deal is the right move for Toronto (pending UFA who could get Bobrovsky money). They need young players with team control.

There is a good chance he only wants to waive for teams that have no income tax, warm weather and are a contender so VGK, DAL, FLA, TB.

It's less about the retention spot itself and more what the retention spot allows you to do. Toronto is far from the only team that will look to offload cap this summer and Bedard is a big enough lightning rod for free agents looking to sign a 1 year deal to regain some trade value. Take DeBrusk or Arvidsson for example. I could easily see one of them signing a 1 year deal in Toronto to raise their production next to Bedard and Hall, then move at the deadline to a contender.

I think you just chose the wrong team here for the retainer. I could absolutely see a team like Calgary (if like Mangiapane were to be included in the trade or something) or Anaheim willingly use one of their 3 slots to retain on Marner for the year.

It's definitely hard to say for sure where Marner would willingly waive and you may be right with those destinations. I would also include places like New York and LA as potential landing spots.

I think Hellebuyck set a new standard for goalies, I don't see Saros getting much more than 8.5M.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

They also clear Suter's money and they clear out the bonus overage from Pavelski. I'd guess Oettinger and Johnston both get 8.5M and fall in line with Heiskanen and Hintz (increase of 12M). Marner probably gets 11M (5.5M increase). They'd be fine under a 92M cap.

Well that becomes a problem. You can't expect Oettinger and Johnston to take those team deals and then turn around and pay Marner 11M. Unless Johnston is extended this summer I don't see any way he gets less than 9M on his next deal. I am fully aware of what money comes off the books but they still need to fill out the rest of roster. Harley will get a relevant raise this summer and then they need to at least replace one of Lindell/Suter with an NHL level defenseman as maybe only Bichsel is NHL ready from their D prospects. Also if they decide to bring Pavelski back he will probably have a performance bonus again making the overages pretty moot.