D Prospects vs. eachother

[Debs]

With the draft over and the season months away I figured I'd throw something out there. What if you took the top 5 D (add Friedman, Alt, Willcox... if you want, my knowledge is already lacking as it is) and tried to rank their offense and defense against each other, both separately and together. I may be way too bored at work, but I figured i'd throw it out there.

Offense:
Sanheim
Gostisbehere
Provorov
Hagg
Morin

Defense:
Morin
Provorov
Hagg
Sanheim
Gostisbehere

--------------

Together:
Sanheim's offense
Gostisbehere's offense
Morin's defense
Provorov's defense
Provorov's offense
Sanheim's defense
Hagg's offense
Morin's offense
Hagg's defense
Gostisbehere's defense


Together was really hard. Especially as someone who only reads about the prospects and doesn't really watch them except for youtube clips. I feel like Provorov isn't rated high enough on the last list, but I'm just not sure where to move him.

Anyway, if your'e bored/up for it, give it a go.

Click to read more...

 

[CoutseysCorner92]

I'm bored as well. 10 points for ranking of 1st, 7 points for 2nd, 5 points for 3rd, 3 points for 4th, 1 point for 5th

Offense
1. Gostisbehere
2a. Sanheim/2b. Provorov
4. Hagg
5. Morin

Defense
1a. Morin/1b. Provorov
3. Sanheim
4. Hagg
5. Gostisbehere

Overall
Gostisbehere OFF
Sanheim/Provorov OFF
Morin/Provorov DEF
Morin DEF
Sanheim DEF
Morin OFF
Hagg DEF
Hagg OFF
Gostisbehere DEF

Overall
Provorov - 17 points
Sanheim - 12 points
Morin - 11 points
Gostisbehere - 11 points
Hagg - 6 points

 

[SchennSational1022*]

How exactly is Hagg receiving higher offensive rankings than Morin? Hagg is forgotten on this website and receives some unfair criticism, but just no.

 

[Patrick Division]

Ghost is no slouch on D either In 2014 he won ECAC Hockey Best Defensive Defenseman Award.

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2013-14/News/20142103_BDD_Award

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Offense:
Sanheim
Ghost
Provorov
Morin
Hagg

Defense:
Provorov
Morin
Ghost
Sanheim
Hagg

They're all good at both sides tho, just because Sanheim is ranked low on defense doesn't mean I think he's poor defensively, this is all relative

 

[Jray42]

Offense:
Gostisbehere
Sanheim
Provorov
Morin / Hagg


Defense:
Provorov
Morin
Sanheim
Hagg
Gostisbehere

 

[Les Averman]

Offense:
1a. Sanheim
1b. Ghost
3. Provorov
4. Morin
5. Hagg

Defense:
1. Provorov
2. Morin
3. Hagg
4. Ghost
5. Sanheim

Together:
1a. Sanheim Offense
1b. Ghost Defense
3. Provorov Defense
4. Morin Defense
5. Provorov Offense
6. Hagg Defense
7. Morin Offense
8. Ghost Defense
9. Sanheim Defense
10. Hagg Offense

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How exactly is Hagg receiving higher offensive rankings than Morin? Hagg is forgotten on this website and receives some unfair criticism, but just no.

I would say at this stage that Hagg is a better offensive defenseman than Morin.

Hagg is the better puckhandler and passer, and if you had to pick one of the two to put on an NHL power play right now, it would be Hagg. Morin I suppose has the harder shot, but that's the only area where he beats Hagg offensively at the moment. Not saying Morin won't improve offensively, but presently his offensive game has many more holes in it than Hagg's.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

I'm gonna call this right now, I'm pretty sure Provorov is better at both offense and defense than any D in our system.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I would say at this stage that Hagg is a better offensive defenseman than Morin.

Hagg is the better puckhandler and passer, and if you had to pick one of the two to put on an NHL power play right now, it would be Hagg. Morin I suppose has the harder shot, but that's the only area where he beats Hagg offensively at the moment. Not saying Morin won't improve offensively, but presently his offensive game has many more holes in it than Hagg's.

Disagree. Morin is actually pretty good on the PP. He won't be a QB, but he would be a bigger threat as a triggerman. Hagg has a good shot, but its not as good as Morin's. Hagg's a little stiff too. I think Morin shows better lateral skating which is useful on the PP.

I don't think Hagg will be a PP guy in the NHL, but I believe Morin will get a shot (probably on the 2nd unit).

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Disagree. Morin is actually pretty good on the PP. He won't be a QB, but he would be a bigger threat as a triggerman. Hagg has a good shot, but its not as good as Morin's. Hagg's a little stiff too. I think Morin shows better lateral skating which is useful on the PP.

I don't think Hagg will be a PP guy in the NHL, but I believe Morin will get a shot (probably on the 2nd unit).

You can deal with Morin being a trigger-man in juniors; in the AHL and NHL I think you want someone on the PP who can handle and pass the puck with more skill than Morin has right now.

Again, I am talking about right now, not hypothetically in the future.

I guess we will see who gets more PP time with the Phantoms this year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You can deal with Morin being a trigger-man in juniors; in the AHL and NHL I think you want someone on the PP who can handle and pass the puck with more skill than Morin has right now.

Again, I am talking about right now, not hypothetically in the future.

I guess we will see who gets more PP time with the Phantoms this year.

I think you're underestimating Morin a bit. He's gotten a lot more comfortable in the offensive zone. He's not going to 'wow' you with his playmaking skill but he can keep the flow of the play going (and I expect him to iron out some of the coordination hiccups as he gets older).

Check out this sequence:
https://youtu.be/6_-6s4ZQOmI?t=2m47s

And the real reason you want to give him a shot on the PP:
[NHL]826645&catid=774[/NHL]

With Sanheim, Provorov, and Gostisbehere in the fold both will be in an uphill battle to get PP time with the big club, but I think Sam could surprise some people.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I've seen that clip, and I never doubted Morin's slapper when he has time to unleash it.

But it takes a lot more than just a hard shot to be effective on the point at the pro level, and I think right now Hagg has more poise with the puck and better hands and vision. My guess is Hagg will get more PP time than Morin in the AHL this season.

Regardless, I agree that with Sanheim, Provorov, and Ghost all excellent power play defensemen, neither Morin nor Hagg will likely factor as major PP players for the Flyers in the future.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Morin was getting time on the PP with the Flyers in training camp while Hagg was in Allentown. They have more invested in Morin than Hagg.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Morin was getting time on the PP with the Flyers in training camp while Hagg was in Allentown. They have more invested in Morin than Hagg.

I don't think the question was who they have more invested in. The question was just who is the better offensive blueliner right now.

Like I said, we'll see who ultimately gets more PP time and more points in the AHL this year since it will be an even playing field.

 

[Random Forest]

I think Morin is by far better offensively. He might not be as "toolsy" as Hagg, but he makes better offensive decisions with the puck. Morin makes a better first pass and can actually generate chances from the point with decent vision and a strong shot.

Hagg handles the puck well enough, and he definitely doesn't make bad decisions with the puck in the offensive zone, but those decisions aren't offense-generating ones. Mainly just soft wrist shots or plays back into the corner. Occasionally a slap shot. Rarely do I see Hagg try to make a play with it. Nothing wrong with that-- it's just not his nature.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think Morin is by far better offensively. He might not be as "toolsy" as Hagg, but he makes better offensive decisions with the puck. Morin makes a better first pass and can actually generate chances from the point with decent vision and a strong shot.

Hagg handles the puck well enough, and he definitely doesn't make bad decisions with the puck in the offensive zone, but those decisions aren't offense-generating ones. Mainly just soft wrist shots or plays back into the corner. Occasionally a slap shot. Rarely do I see Hagg try to make a play with it. Nothing wrong with that-- it's just not his nature.

Morin makes a better first pass and better offensive decisions with the puck than Hagg? I vehemently disagree on both counts. At least at this stage of their development.

 

[Random Forest]

Morin makes a better first pass and better offensive decisions with the puck than Hagg?

Yeah, he does.


Hagg actually makes a solid first pass, so I won't dig in too hard there, but at the blueline in the offensive zone, Morin is a more threatening player.

Neither are outstanding in that regard, but Hagg doesn't really make (or attempt to make) threatening plays. Again, not a knock on Hagg. It's just not the type of player he is.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Sweden wouldn't even play Hagg on the powerplay the last 2 years at the World Juniors. Kind of tells you what kind of player they think he is. He's not much a playmaker in the offensive zone. Like I said before, his actions are a little stiff. He's not really the kind of guy that's going to create a whole lot of space. His best offensive trait is his shot and I think Morin's is better.

I'm not expecting Hagg to be a PP guy. I'll be more than happy if he just becomes a bottom pair regular that can PK.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'll give you more threatening insofar as Morin has a more dangerous slap shot when he gets time to unleash it.

But I think you are overrating how Morin's overall offensive skills will translate right now to the pro game.

If both Hagg and Morin play a full season with the Phantoms this year, I could see Hagg with 35 points and Morin with 15-20.

 

[Random Forest]

I'll give you more threatening insofar as Morin has a more dangerous slap shot when he gets time to unleash it.

But I think you are overrating how Morin's overall offensive skills will translate right now to the pro game.

I'm not overrating anything about Morin considering I don't even think he's that good at the offensive blueline to begin with.

I'm just saying that Hagg isn't a threatening player with the puck in that spot and Morin is at least a marginal factor.

It's like Niklas Hjalmarsson. It's not that he bad at the offensive line-- it's just not a part of his repertoire.

If both Hagg and Morin play a full season with the Phantoms this year, I could see Hagg with 35 points and Morin with 15-20.

Well, for one, Hagg has more pro experience than Morin, so he probably should be outscoring him. But even then, I don't see that happening. Morin will get better PP minutes than Hagg. Hagg's not putting up 35+ points unless he's QBing the top PP or the Phantoms become one of the best 5v5 teams in the AHL.

 

[MadFerIt95*]

Offense:

Ghost
Sanheim
Provorov
Hagg
Morin

Defense:

Provorov
Morin
Sanheim
Ghost
Hagg


Together

Ghost Off
Provorov Def
Morin Def
Sanheim Off
Sanheim Def
Provorov Off
Ghost Def
Hagg Def
Hagg Off
Morin Def

As you can see Im not huge on the Hagg train, I see him as a bottom pairing at best, I think Id almost rather have Friedman over him, but that's just my gut talking.

 

[Stizzle]

Sweden wouldn't even play Hagg on the powerplay the last 2 years at the World Juniors. Kind of tells you what kind of player they think he is. He's not much a playmaker in the offensive zone.

In Hagg's defense Sweden had barely any good 5 on 5 or PK defensemen last year except Hagg. Hagg had to handle a big workload on that end. But they did have a few offensive defensemen that could handle the PP stuff but not much else. Obviously I'm not saying his offense is great, just that there were mitigating reasons they never used him on the PP.

 

[FLYguy3911]

In Hagg's defense Sweden had barely any good 5 on 5 or PK defensemen last year except Hagg. Hagg had to handle a big workload on that end. But they did have a few offensive defensemen that could handle the PP stuff but not much else. Obviously I'm not saying his offense is great, just that there were mitigating reasons they never used him on the PP.

That could be a reason, but you would think a player of his supposed caliber would have found his way into that role if he was good enough (in his 3rd year). PP minutes aren't exactly the most taxing. That wasn't the most talented blueline we have seen out of Sweden in recent years.

There's no guarantee either guy see's an NHL powerplay consistently, so this could be a pointless argument, but I just think Morin would be more effective if given the opportunity as a specialist of sorts.

PP or no PP, I just want Hagg to be an NHL player.

 

[CoutseysCorner92]

curious as to what you guys think about the floors/ceilings of our top 5 defensive prospects

Provorov - 50% #1D, 90% top 2D, 100% top 4D
Sanheim - 50% #1D, 75% top 2D, 100% top 4D
Morin - 25% #1D, 60% top 2D, 90% top 4D, 100% top 6D
Gostisbehere - 10% #1D, 40% top 2D, 80% top 4D, 100% top 6D
Hagg - 5% #1D, 15% top 2D, 40% top 4D, 75% top 6D