CXLVIII - NHL BOG approves sale and relocation of Coyotes to Ryan Smith, league announces establishment of franchise in Utah

[sneakytitz]

And this is why I think expansion is happening sooner than later. There was urgency to resolve the Mullett Arena situation and that urgency was driven by Atlanta and Houston.

Houston could certainly be a factor but at the time it was definitely SLC and Atlanta. Obviously SLC is better positioned than Atlanta to host a team right now, which is why they are - also because Smith didn't care how he got his team - but Atlanta is going to need a dance partner to enter the league and Arizona could function as that partner if Houston never materializes.

 

[Llama19]

Meruelo stated he spent $7 million on the Tempe campaign?

He stated that, do you believe it?

NOPE...not according to the campaign filings...

Coyotes concede defeat after Tempe voters reject hockey arena deal

To quote:

"On one side, opposition group Tempe 1st levied charges of corruption against Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo, arguing that the city was being ripped off. The campaign worked to see the deal defeated on a budget of just $35,000.

The Coyotes' Tempe Wins campaign, supporting the plan, raised roughly 35 times more cash than that — the vast majority of which came from Meruelo's development company. It spent more than $700,000."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/05/16/tempe-election-results-arizona-coyotes-arena-deal/70219695007/

So...that other $6,300,000 must have been his under-the-table expenditures...

 

[Tawnos]

Houston could certainly be a factor but at the time it was definitely SLC and Atlanta. Obviously SLC is better positioned than Atlanta to host a team right now, which is why they are - also because Smith didn't care how he got his team - but Atlanta is going to need a dance partner to enter the league and Arizona could function as that partner if Houston never materializes.

The news that Fertitta was in talks with the NHL again came out in late-February. What I was saying was less about the specifics of each scenario than it was about the reason for urgency to make this change with the Coyotes. Mullett needed resolution before there could any serious consideration of other expansion sites, no matter where they were.

 

[LadyStanley]

Looks like Vegas loses Utah territory but gets Arizona (until/if Coyotes return)

Nope just SLC. Cedar City is south end of state. About 3 hours on I15 NB.

 

[GreenHornet]

And this is why I think expansion is happening sooner than later. There was urgency to resolve the Mullett Arena situation and that urgency was driven by Atlanta and Houston.

Not to mention that Bettman, Daly and the BoG REALLY want to collect that sweet expansion money before having to renegotiate the CBA with the players in 2026.

 

[awfulwaffle]

There is a difference in not wanting to be out front vs being destructive to your brand when you speak.

Ok? That's exactly why AM doesn't usually speak publicly. Didn't really have a choice here......

 

[Melrose Munch]

Ok? That's exactly why AM doesn't usually speak publicly. Didn't really have a choice here......

Can we stop making excuses for the guy? It's obvious all the rumors are true at this point.

 

[sneakytitz]

The news that Fertitta was in talks with the NHL again came out in late-February. What I was saying was less about the specifics of each scenario than it was about the reason for urgency to make this change with the Coyotes. Mullett needed resolution before there could any serious consideration of other expansion sites, no matter where they were.

Ah, gotcha!

Meruelo is driving the bus for 35/36, in my eyes. If he gets his arena, the NHL is likely going to be thrilled that they've got to figure out who to pick for 36, whether its San Diego, Kansas City, QBC, whoever. Great problem to have and I think that's why Arizona is not part of the equation for 33/34 - you can't announce one team while the other promised activation is still in development, and you don't want to scramble to fill the void.

I still don't know Meruelo's intentions at this point but I have to imagine if he drops $100 million on the auction to win it, he's really in. You don't toss away 10% of your money just to maintain an illusion.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Can we stop making excuses for the guy? It's obvious all the rumors are true at this point.

Excuses in what form? Are you sitting there telling me that no other owner or CEO has other people that might be the spokesperson or main person out front?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Excuses in what form? Are you sitting there telling me that no other owner or CEO has other people that might be the spokesperson or main person out front?

I'm telling you that everyone else knows that he handled this poorly from the communications to everything else, and he is the main reason the team is gone.

 

[GKJ]

Not to mention that Bettman, Daly and the BoG REALLY want to collect that sweet expansion money before having to renegotiate the CBA with the players in 2026.

The new teams will not have to make the payment before then. It won’t be a factor. Players will never see a cut of expansion fees. They’re going to get the increase in jobs instead. In fact they pushed Seattle back a year specifically because of the CBA.

 

[awfulwaffle]

I'm telling you that everyone else knows that he handled this poorly from the communications to everything else, and he is the main reason the team is gone.

Per Gary, the league approached him, and he originally said no.

 

[aqib]

A couple of things I wonder about:

1) Gary Bettman is about to turn 72. No one knows how long he plans to stay around but if you figure it takes 2 years to build an arena in Arizona (based on Glendale and Footprint's original construction time) He will be 75 by the time AM needs to to break ground. Will the next commish be as committed to work through the issues

2) Delta Center will need 2 summers after this one to be NHL ready. Houston's arena is basically NHL ready now. Why wouldn't they have picked Houston?

3) would they do staggered expansion if AM within the next few months gets what he needs. It seems like teams that come in on their own are more successful. Not just Vegas and Seattle but even San Jose got better early. Maybe you have Atlanta in 3 years followed by Phoenix in 5.

 

[joelef]

The new teams will not have to make the payment before then. It won’t be a factor. Players will never see a cut of expansion fees. They’re going to get the increase in jobs instead. In fact they pushed Seattle back a year specifically because of the CBA.

That and the rsns money is running out.

 

[GKJ]

That and the rsns money is running out.

That’s an issue across all sports though, except football.

 

[sneakytitz]

Players will never see a cut of expansion fees.

That is immaterial; you don't want that as a potential negotiation tactic/option, as far fetched as it may be. You can lead with that and while it may be shot down, it may only be removed from negotiations in exchange for something else. These tactics/options are pawns (largely inconsequential in the grand scheme but used to position better pieces and scenarios) and, having negotiated big deals before, you want as many pawns off the board before negotiations begin.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I'm telling you that everyone else knows that he handled this poorly from the communications to everything else, and he is the main reason the team is gone.

I dunno - if not him, who else would be running the ship?

I'm certainly not about to defend him, but the NHL didn't exactly have the pick of the ownership litter when he signed up.

 

[GKJ]

That is immaterial; you don't want that as a potential negotiation tactic/option, as far fetched as it may be. You can lead with that and while it may be shot down, it may only be removed from negotiations in exchange for something else. These tactics/options are pawns (largely immaterial in the grand scheme but used to position better pieces and scenarios) and, having negotiated big deals before, you want as many pawns off the board before negotiations begin.

Ok then, why would it change then? Are they gonna cash out in the expansion fees for every market so that they’re never expand again for the next 50 years? Everyone knows the strategy, it’s not going to go away, and the payments still are not going to be made in time.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Per Gary, the league approached him, and he originally said no.

If you believe the "March 6" narrative as presented, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[PredsHead]

Regarding season ticket holders being refunded:

 

[Llama19]

Regarding season ticket holders being refunded:

Damage control...

NHL games in Utah to be shown in Arizona; Coyotes fans unimpressed

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2024/04/19/nhl-games-in-utah-to-be-shown-on-tv-in-arizona/73388349007/

Embedded X/tweet from the article...

 

[Fish on The Sand]

TNSE was overly obsessed with the organic brand they built with the Moose and seemed to be under the mistaken belief that anyone besides them cared more about that than the Jets legacy

I don't think it was that. I think they just didn't want the hassle of acquiring the Jets likeness and trademarks from Arizona.

 

[jkrdevil]

BUT the coyotes would not be an expansion team. Bettman has used the language to avoid saying coyotes 2.0 would be an expansion. They exist, they are inactive. That is different than expansion so the comparison to an expansion fee isn't there. Smith paid an expansion fee for franchise 33.

Exactly. So if Murelon doesn’t have to return the $1 billion in full (except for maybe the Coyotes share of that expansion) to restart the team he got he will essentially he will essentially get paid to continue to be an owner in a way that no other ownership group is getting. Likewise him having to pay more than the $1 billion punishes him for doing what the league wanted him to do and deactivate the franchise while the arena situation gets settled. That’s why that $1 billion to restart is locked in at the number. Allows for continuity.

 

[sneakytitz]

Ok then, why would it change then? Are they gonna cash out in the expansion fees for every market so that they’re never expand again for the next 50 years? Everyone knows the strategy, it’s not going to go away, and the payments still are not going to be made in time.

36 is likely the limit for a long, long time. It's no secret that expansion is about to happen and the next CBA will almost certainly address how expansion fees are distributed if expansions are still taking place (and trust me, if we know about SLC, Houston, Atlanta, etc. - the players union knows double). Expansion fees aren't "hockey related" with the current CBA, so there is no split.

So if you have no plans for expansion after you collect on 33/34 or even 35/36 by the time the current CBA expires, what you offer in the next CBA doesn't really matter, does it? And as I said, you don't even want that on the table if you can avoid it all together but if it comes to that, and you've expanded as far as you're going to for another generation, why does it matter?

As for payments not being made in time, they've got 2 years. We're likely posting in a thread in late June about how the NHL is in the process of collecting payments for 33/34. As for Arizona, there is likely verbiage in that contract with Meruelo and the NHL that is outside of the purview of any future CBA, hence the 5 year timeline. That deal was made prior to the current CBA expiring and it is likely immune. That likely means they have another year to find one more buyer (San Diego, Kansas City, whoever). And if Arizona falls through, at most, they take the hit on one expansion, not 2, and not 4.

 

[eojsmada]

And this is why I think expansion is happening sooner than later. There was urgency to resolve the Mullett Arena situation and that urgency was driven by Atlanta and Houston.

I also think they don't want to give the NHLPA a leverage point in CBA discussions.