News Article: Custance On Trading Green - Don't Count On a First Rounder

[TCNorthstars]

You're probably right, though I'm sure if a legit contender made a good offer for Nyquist he would waive it.

I think NMC/NTC's are easier to deal with then some think. What they do, is they protect a player from being moved to a team they don't want to go to, or waking up one day and seeing you have been traded. Outside of Joe Thornton and Dion Pheneuf at the expansion draft, I can't remember a player refusing to move anywhere.

It definitely complicates things, but when you are a team like the Wings sitting at the bottom of the standings, I don't think its a hard sell to convince a player to go to a contender. I'm sure it's different with every player, but I dont think its the massive hurdle some make it out to be.

Filppula refused a trade to Toronto last year.

 

[Henkka]

Do NTCs ever end up mattering for TDL rentals, at least non-superstars? Going from out of the playoffs to playoffs or even contender is something 90% of players would happily do. Not like we’re talking about trading a long-term deal to Arizona.

^This.^

[/END OF DISCUSSION]

 

[Winger98]

Unless the signs point green not wanting to stay. There’s no reason to trade him for a late second round pick.

1st round pick or high level prospect.

You can get a late second just for his rights if a team wanted him.

who was the last player whose rights were moved for a 2nd after the season? We're looking at a fourth or fifth rounder at that point. If Holland wants to re-sign Green, and Green won't re-sign before the TDL, Holland needs to move him.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

who was the last player whose rights were moved for a 2nd after the season? We're looking at a fourth or fifth rounder at that point. If Holland wants to re-sign Green, and Green won't re-sign before the TDL, Holland needs to move him.

Depends who the team is. But yes if holland doesn’t even get close to signing him green should be dealt

 

[kliq]

Filppula refused a trade to Toronto last year.

Ya that will happen, but I mean players rarely refuse to be moved all together. He did agree to be moved to Philly though.

 

[Wings4Life]

They've got to get a 1st back. Even if it's 30th overall. Retain 50%, do whatever it takes, but the first must come back our way.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

who was the last player whose rights were moved for a 2nd after the season? We're looking at a fourth or fifth rounder at that point. If Holland wants to re-sign Green, and Green won't re-sign before the TDL, Holland needs to move him.

Brent Burns?

 

[Winger98]

Brent Burns?

I think he still had a year left on his deal. Just looking back at guys like Yandle and Goligoski, they got 4th and 5th rounders.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Howard -

I don't see them exploring a Howard trade until next season when his actual salary drops to $4.25M and no longer has any trade limitations.

Plus, I doubt they want to enter the offseason facing a situation where Machovsky is the only goalie on their depth chart at the pro level and they need to sign a #1, a #2 and a #3, since they likely aren't qualifying Mrazek, Coreau is a Group VI UFA and McCollum is a UFA who also can't even handle a #2 job in the AHL...

 

[Winger98]

I don't see them exploring a Howard trade until next season when his actual salary drops to $4.25M and no longer has any trade limitations.

Plus, I doubt they want to enter the offseason facing a situation where Machovsky is the only goalie on their depth chart at the pro level and they need to sign a #1, a #2 and a #3, since they likely aren't qualifying Mrazek, Coreau is a Group VI UFA and McCollum is a UFA who also can't even handle a #2 job in the AHL...

Holland deals Howard, I think he's then definitely qualifying Mrazek. If he thinks he can swing the salaries, I think he qualifies Mrazek regardless. Until then just have both guys on the market and see what you can get.

I doubt Coreau would be a hard sign and there'll almost definitely be a few goalies available during the summer to bring in at least as a 1B with whoever we have.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Holland deals Howard, I think he's then definitely qualifying Mrazek. If he thinks he can swing the salaries, I think he qualifies Mrazek regardless. Until then just have both guys on the market and see what you can get.

I doubt Coreau would be a hard sign and there'll almost definitely be a few goalies available during the summer to bring in at least as a 1B with whoever we have.

The way they've handled Mrazek this season, it's nearly open and shut that he likely doesn't get that QO. That trial was probably held when they decided to expose him to Vegas and the jury is sticking with their verdict. With Mrazek's numbers the past 2 years, he would probably struggle to get 1/3rd of that $4.15M on the open market anyway. Qualifying Mrazek at that price would rank up their with the Abdelkader, Helm and Ericsson extensions on Hollands list of blunders.

Also, no way Holland carries $10M in goalies for another year after he took heat for it the last two and has cheaper and better (at least in Mrazeks case) options on the UFA market. He likely grabs one at $1.XM and rides that guy and Howard until the 2019 deadline. He probably also wants that space to sign some vets on the UFA market as well...

I think every Red Wings fans knows deep down that Holland(or whoever in the FO gets his job) will kick that "trade Howard can" as far down the road as possible.

 

[ShelbyZ]

double post

 

[Redder Winger]

Qualifying Mrazek at that price would rank up their with the Abdelkader, Helm and Ericsson extensions on Hollands list of blunders.
.

Not if you move Howard.

A one-year commitment, even if Mrazek sucked, is nothing.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Not if you move Howard.

A one-year commitment, even if Mrazek sucked, is nothing.

Willingly paying $4.15M to a goalie that's put up a sub .900 for the past two seasons would be a bad signing. Especially when you could get 3 or 4 goalies with similar numbers on the open market with that money...

 

[kliq]

Willingly paying $4.15M to a goalie that's put up a sub .900 for the past two seasons would be a bad signing. Especially when you could get 3 or 4 goalies with similar numbers on the open market with that money...

IF you think that is what he is, then 100% yes.
IF you think he is capable of much more, then its not a big deal especially if its a 1 year contract.

The big question with Mrazek is what will he end up being.

As much as Jimmy has earned playing time over Mrazek without a doubt, it does make more sense for us to trade Jimmy and keep Mrazek IF we feel Mrazek can turn it around.

If he's just a goalie version of of the fringe NHLers that we have dumped off over the last few years, good riddance.

 

[BinCookin]

IF you think that is what he is, then 100% yes.
IF you think he is capable of much more, then its not a big deal especially if its a 1 year contract.

The big question with Mrazek is what will he end up being.

As much as Jimmy has earned playing time over Mrazek without a doubt, it does make more sense for us to trade Jimmy and keep Mrazek IF we feel Mrazek can turn it around.

If he's just a goalie version of of the fringe NHLers that we have dumped off over the last few years, good riddance.

I think it is pretty clear we have closed the door on Mrazek. Howard is playing about as much as Lundqvist right now.

 

[Redder Winger]

Willingly paying $4.15M to a goalie that's put up a sub .900 for the past two seasons would be a bad signing. Especially when you could get 3 or 4 goalies with similar numbers on the open market with that money...

Right - it's not a good signing.
But the risk is low.
Because it's one year. A year when the team isn't going to be good anyway.

And it's a risk worth considering because Mrazek has show the ability to be much better than a .900 goalie.
And if he can regain that form now you have a 26 year old goalie who could be here for 8 years. Or you have an asset you can move.

For very little risk.

 

[Redder Winger]

I think it is pretty clear we have closed the door on Mrazek. Howard is playing about as much as Lundqvist right now.

Howard since nov. 19
6 wins
14 losses
.900 sv pct

Mrazek all season
4 wins
7 losses
.894 sv pct

What are we really talking about here?
Mrazek's numbers aren't really much worse than Howard's, even though Mrazek doesn't have the luxury of getting into any kind of rhythm.

If you want to say that Howard was better than Mrazek for the first six weeks of the season - that's fair.
But for the last two months there really hasn't been any good reason to stick to Howard the way Blashill has.

But Blashill keeps saying Howard is "elite," so...

 

[kliq]

I think it is pretty clear we have closed the door on Mrazek. Howard is playing about as much as Lundqvist right now.

You're right, over the past 2 seasons Mrazek has pretty much played himself out a job here in Detroit.

Personally I would like to move Howard if he can bring us a good return as Mrazek is worthless right now, then I would give Mrazek next season to either turn it around, or be cut loose.

 

[kliq]

Right - it's not a good signing.
But the risk is low.
Because it's one year. A year when the team isn't going to be good anyway.

And it's a risk worth considering because Mrazek has show the ability to be much better than a .900 goalie.
And if he can regain that form now you have a 26 year old goalie who could be here for 8 years. Or you have an asset you can move.

For very little risk.

Since its only 1 year I tend to agree with you on this one. But for the record, I dont think Mrazek is owed anything. (I only say this because its a common sentiment among a lot of Wings fans).

 

[Ezekial]

Howard since nov. 19
6 wins
14 losses
.900 sv pct

Mrazek all season
4 wins
7 losses
.894 sv pct

What are we really talking about here?
Mrazek's numbers aren't really much worse than Howard's, even though Mrazek doesn't have the luxury of getting into any kind of rhythm.

If you want to say that Howard was better than Mrazek for the first six weeks of the season - that's fair.
But for the last two months there really hasn't been any good reason to stick to Howard the way Blashill has.

But Blashill keeps saying Howard is "elite," so...

I'm going to preface this by saying I was hoping to see Mrazek get the nod last night and disappointed he didn't. There's many factors involved as to why.

But, I can choose a range to fit an argument that would say Jimmy Howard should start.

Since December 11 Howard has a .928, a 2.33 GAA and is 5-5-2. Going into last night he had a .934 and 2.18 in his prior 11 starts.

If you want to drag Howard's good starts recently down with his rough stretch that's fine, but don't act like he never found his way back.
Playing I told you so doesn't count when you got proven wrong for 2 weeks.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm going to preface this by saying I was hoping to see Mrazek get the nod last night and disappointed he didn't. There's many factors involved as to why.

But, I can choose a range to fit an argument that would say Jimmy Howard should start.

Since December 11 Howard has a .928, a 2.33 GAA and is 5-5-2. Going into last night he had a .934 and 2.18 in his prior 11 starts.

If you want to drag Howard's good starts recently down with his rough stretch that's fine, but don't act like he never found his way back.
Playing I told you so doesn't count when you got proven wrong for 2 weeks.

Go look at his month by month stats. Howard hasn't been exceptional outside of October. He had a good close to December keeping that month from being an outright disaster and the slight carry over in January should help similarly to this month. But that is really it, he played a solid few games around new years that really helped his number.

He is very likely in my opinion with 4 (likely starts given Blashill's usage of him) left in the month to crater below the .910 mark again this month.

Mrazek had a shutout and looked really confident in Chicago. He should have got the net last night, it was a mistake that he didn't get the chance. Howard has not played well enough to block that opportunity.

Given his injuries it is also reckless to play Howard this much in my opinion.

Whomever starts in goal is going to feel the downgrade of a Green trade though. But it needs to happen nonetheless. Hopefully we do get good value out of him.

 

[Ezekial]

Go look at his month by month stats. Howard hasn't been exceptional outside of October. He had a good close to December keeping that month from being an outright disaster and the slight carry over in January should help similarly to this month. But that is really it, he played a solid few games around new years that really helped his number.

He is very likely in my opinion with 4 likely starts left in the month to crater below the .910 mark again this month.

Mrazek had a shutout and looked really confident in Chicago. He should have got the net last night, it was a mistake that he didn't get the chance. Howard has not played well enough to block that opportunity.

Given his injuries it is also reckless to play Howard this much in my opinion.

I agree, maybe if Howie had a good game in Pitt, but he didn't. It's so dumb that they never give Pete a start if it's not a back to back, like you said Jim's injury history alone should scare them into giving a start from time to time, not to mention he could increase his value.

Still, the span I just gave you was a month. he's been pretty good for 2.5 months this season and bad for a month. The 10 games before Pitt he was back to his early season form at .938 and 2.00. He's inconsistent, he's always been. Maybe Pete getting a start after a few good games by Howard could keep both of them in good form, and vice versa.
I don't get the riding of Jimmy Howard the way they do, he's about to surpass the total of each of his numbers of starts from the past 2 seasons. He's rested enough apparently. It's only a matter of time I think before we have a Jensen runs into him situation or he leaves practice one day.

They aren't looking at Jimmy Howard's since November whatever, they looked at the recent 10 game sample. Maybe they thought since he'd only played one game in the past 11 days and we'd have another 4 days until he could get into another that he should get it. .
Start Mrazek Saturday.

 

[Red Stanley]

When we talk about goalie inconsistencies we often forget the team they play for .... And by "we" I mean people who keep harping on losses as if they're solely on the goaltender or throwing out stats without context. That is to say that Howard has been exceptional all things considered and Mrazek can't truly be evaluated until he gets a clean start on a team with actual defensive structure. The Wings may have their reasons for giving up on him, but talent isn't one of them. More on topic, I like both our goalies and would like to see them move on to better circumstances with us getting some assets in return. It would be the best for all parties. Green needs to be converted into as many picks/prospects as possible that are as high as possible.

 

[Redder Winger]

I'm going to preface this by saying I was hoping to see Mrazek get the nod last night and disappointed he didn't. There's many factors involved as to why.

But, I can choose a range to fit an argument that would say Jimmy Howard should start.

Since December 11 Howard has a .928, a 2.33 GAA and is 5-5-2. Going into last night he had a .934 and 2.18 in his prior 11 starts.

If you want to drag Howard's good starts recently down with his rough stretch that's fine, but don't act like he never found his way back.
Playing I told you so doesn't count when you got proven wrong for 2 weeks.

The point is that he was good. He was awful. he was good. And now he's been a little mediocre for a few games.

But during those awful stretches, Blashill never waivered.

It's a pretty easy point to understand.