Current State Of NYI, From An Old Skool Fan's Perspective

[tailgunner]

you say you were born in 82 and you were 3years old when the isles won their 4th cup? how is that possible? isles won their 4th cup in 83 so you were 1 years old? unless my math stinks because I am Rangers fan and i'm trolling

 

[MJP]

No doubt about it Vanek is the way more skilled player of the two, and I was pretty excited about the trade. That being said, Joe is right, there is just no chemistry there and its getting painful to watch. Besides being a righty and recieving alot of JT's passes on his backhand, he also is looking to make the extra pass whereas Moulson would have just taken the shot. Yes, Moulson doesn't have as good a shot as Vanek, but at least he got them on net.

Vanek doesn't skate and over the past couple of games ive watched him turn the puck over a LOT, which puts more burden on our terrible D. In the grand scheme of things, the real problem is Wangs lack of spending. I feel confident in saying that on a good team, 60% of our roster would be on their AHL squad. I haven't been watching quite as long as Joe, I was born in 86, but i've never seen a situation in such a debacle like this one, including Milbury's time here.

I just don't understand as an owner why Wang is fine with losing money every single year without attempting to make adjustments to diminish those losses. Just sell already, bring back laviolette, draft Ekblad, sign a big name dman FA, bring up strome, and get one of Anahiems goalies. Gotta spend money to make money. Business 101. **** you Islanders

 

[enigmatic]

rabble rabble rabble!!!!

the 2nd/3rd/4th lines started to suck, our goalies still suck, and we had a few unfortunate injuries (bounces) occur when vanek was acquired......the only logical thing to do? blame Vanek!

he is not the problem, more like PART of the solution....if he doesnt want to resign (and why would he) then dish him for a top 4 dman

has vanek been playing his best hockey? probably not....but he still is making the 1st line a better line.....though i find it funny that JT never gets any of the blame....its all him when the line is producing, but when it is not....VANEK SUCKS!

 

[scott99]

That 1st line has been struggling for a while now. Even during the nice run last year, a lot of the scoring was coming from other places than the 1st line.

I'm wondering how long it takes before the sharks start to circle on Tavares.

True, during the first 2 or 3 games of THIS SEASON the 1st line was struggling as well. The 2nd line was scoring like crazy. Then that moron Cappy decides to take Grabner off of the 2nd line, and all of a sudden the 2nd line struggles. The first line started to click after Moulson's slow start, and we traded him RIGHT when he started scoring. It was bad timing. BUT, I agree, everyone wanted a star on Tavares' wing, but IMHO not neccessarily at the expense of Moulson. After PAP and Boyes, I know I wished there was a star added to the Tavares-Moulson line to replace PAP and Boyes, not to replace Moulson.

That being said, I was fine with the trade, was worried about the chemistry, as well as with signing Vanek, but I was fine with what we gave up. I compare Vanek with Nash, statistically they are very similar, so what we gave up was similar to what the Rangers gave up for Nash. the key is signing him, OR trading him for good value, there is no in between, you can't go the PAP and Blake route. They need to set a deadline, and either get him signed, or trade him to the highest bidder. WE CAN NOT lose him without a huge return (or absolutely NO return).

I really think they are going to trade him. He wanted to leave Buffalo because of the losing, and the Isles are losing MORE than Buffalo. Plus, he is not meshing as well with Tavares as I hoped he would. A few glimpses of that possibly happening, but not enough. Ideally I'd like to get Vanek signed and give the two more time to work on it, but I don't see it happening.

Joe the Jerk, no need to leave. Everyone has an opinion here and yours is as good as everyone's here. Some of the people here can be harsh, but it's a good community. Also, you've been a fan for almost 30 years, so I consider you an oldtimer as well as some of us older folks.

 

[12Dog]

We gave up future draft picks. Possibly good future defense-men. We gave this up for a guy who plays like hes 50 years old. On a team that skates like their 20 years old.

It was a risky dumb trade, do not fix it if it aint broke.

If we does not re-sign it was all for nothing. We are renting a boulder who can screen the net. Wow, should have just re-signed Trevor Gillies, he was good at that too.

Gillies also would have knocked Crosby on his pretty boy face the other night
(Just kiddin about signing Gillies)

If it ain't broke? Moulson was such a liability 5v5 that even the genius that is Capuano could see it and dropped him from Tavares' line in the playoffs and again this year. You slam Vanek's skating, and neglect the fact that Moulson couldn't out skate Nystrom, not even today. And that's Bobby not Eric old school.

 

[MJP]

I swear to god if we send him to Minnesota and reacquire Nino I'll lose my ****. Something that will make us look incredibly stupid is highly likely, so that's my worry. I would like Brodin though.

 

[scott99]

No doubt about it Vanek is the way more skilled player of the two, and I was pretty excited about the trade. That being said, Joe is right, there is just no chemistry there and its getting painful to watch. Besides being a righty and recieving alot of JT's passes on his backhand, he also is looking to make the extra pass whereas Moulson would have just taken the shot. Yes, Moulson doesn't have as good a shot as Vanek, but at least he got them on net.

Vanek doesn't skate and over the past couple of games ive watched him turn the puck over a LOT, which puts more burden on our terrible D. In the grand scheme of things, the real problem is Wangs lack of spending. I feel confident in saying that on a good team, 60% of our roster would be on their AHL squad. I haven't been watching quite as long as Joe, I was born in 86, but i've never seen a situation in such a debacle like this one, including Milbury's time here.

I just don't understand as an owner why Wang is fine with losing money every single year without attempting to make adjustments to diminish those losses. Just sell already, bring back laviolette, draft Ekblad, sign a big name dman FA, bring up strome, and get one of Anahiems goalies. Gotta spend money to make money. Business 101. **** you Islanders

I guarantee you Wang isn't losing money. He CLAIMS he is, but nobody loses 10-20 million dollars a year and keeps that business. He isn't a billionaire for nothing. Between the cable contract, ticket sales, concessions, I'm sure he's making plenty of money. What he ISN'T doing, is putting money back into the product. Think of it this way, you have a GREAT restaurant that everyone loves, why ? because they use the BEST ingredients, they hire the best chefs, THEY PUT MONEY BACK INTO THEIR PRODUCT. Now think of some bad restaurants you've been to. The place is a mess, the food tastes like ****, and they refuse to put money back into their product. The Isle's are the 2nd one.

 

[Strummergas]

I swear to god if we send him to Minnesota and reacquire Nino I'll lose my ****. Something that will make us look incredibly stupid is highly likely, so that's my worry. I would like Brodin though.

Why in earth would you think the Isles would try to reacquire Nino with the way he was dealt off during the summer? They completely washed their hands of him, and clearly wanted no part of him. And aside from that, would MIN even want to part with him at this point? He seems to be doing ok for them.

 

[Strummergas]

The overall confidence of the team has dwindled. On both ends of the ice.

Maybe the team DOES in fact miss Matty Moulson?
How is that so hard to believe? Why is it so hard to believe ONE players absence can disrupt the entire flow of a hockey team?

Your defense-men need to trust their front line. Right now defense is shaky. Alot of that has to do with bad give-aways, leaving defense-men out of position. Away from the red line. You have to trust your front men are not going to give up blind pass give aways and create opposite end odd man rushes.
(Which is exactly what is happening right now)

In fact, im fairly certain that the entire 1st line has a negative +\- rating. Which that line was in top 5 in the league last year.

I understand different perspectives here. But im not gonna just agree with everyone here and change my mind. I see things perfectly clear.

I see a hockey team pressing and not gelling or trusting each other anymore.

As far as the other lines performance. It has to go back to them pressing too hard.

Look at Grabs. Cant score because he is trying too hard.

These young guys are hockey players. This isnt the NFL. They eat,sleep,travel and play together.
If your really convinced that emotions do not play a role in how a professional team performs then you need to step away from your computer, slap on skates, grab a stick and go join a summer league.

Youll learn quickly how emotions n psychology play a defining role in a sports team.

Stuff you wont learn from posting 5k times in a forum. Or winning a fantasy division.

The loss of Vis, Strait and definetly Mouslon have affected this team.
Removing Moulson from this team will affect JT for years to come.

Maybe one day you will realize this, 2 years from now when JT has yet to put up another 25 goal season.

Lets hope im wrong though.

I don't participate in fantasy sports, so you can stop using that as an argument against my points.

Look, you make a lot of suppositions about why you think this team went into the *******, but I'm sorry, none of it is tangible. Admittedly, I'm doing the same, but I'm at least making my guesses by watching the games and looking at the trends. Maybe I'm not right, but all you're doing is making statements without anything to prove why you might be right aside from "I play hockey, so I know" and "I was born in '82". Those arguments are as valid as someone claiming to know all about the game because they crunch stats together and don't need to watch the games to know what's going on with the team. Neither is. Honestly, it's cool that you play, but ultimately it doesn't mean anything because you can still lace up skates and not know a damn thing about the ins and outs of the game.

People are just looking for places to point fingers because they don't understand wth happened.

Thank you and goodnight! This is it in a nutshell. We're despondent because we all thought the team was actually, finally going to amount to something this year. So much for that. We're all mortified. Maybe we should've known better? Anyway, it's easy to try and pinpoint "the ONE thing" that caused the ship to sink, but in reality, it's a bunch of factors.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Exactly. Were some people expecting someone better then a player of Vaneks skill ? We all got what we wanted and unfortunately the team is playing like dog ****. Has NOTHiNG to do with Vanek. This happens every year. This falls on PMB, Regin, grabner, bailey and of course Cappy, snow, wang. This team just doesn't have the core we all thought. If we were playing how we were late last year and then got Vanek we would be borderline unstoppable. People are just looking for places to point fingers because they don't understand wth happened.

I agree with you guys on this. I stopped reading at the Moulson = fast part of te original opening dialogue. This looks more like a common poster logging in under a different name and throwing comments out just to cause a post war. I could be wrong of course, but have strong doubts about that.

I get unhappiness about the situation. I am extremely unhappy about the way this season played out. But blaming the collapse on the Moulson deal because it huwt their feewings? That is about as ignorant a suggestion as I have heard yet.

I hope they can get a good return for Vanek. That's as far as I will go with this.

 

[Strummergas]

This looks more like a common poster logging in under a different name and throwing comments out just to cause a post war. I could be wrong of course, but have strong doubts about that.

Gee, ya think? I can narrow it down to 2 posters. There are a few who aren't happy about the deal, but I can think of only 2 that would stoop to that level and go out of their way to create another user name just to harp on and on about the same thing over and over again in an attempt to bring everyone over to their side. Neither of whom are not kids and can be considered "old skool".

That's why I'm such a sucker. I know the score and yet I can't help myself from falling into the trap.

 

[MJP]

Why in earth would you think the Isles would try to reacquire Nino with the way he was dealt off during the summer? They completely washed their hands of him, and clearly wanted no part of him. And aside from that, would MIN even want to part with him at this point? He seems to be doing ok for them.

It was a joke, but would I be surprised if it happened....not at all, thats how dumb of a GM we have.

 

[MJP]

I guarantee you Wang isn't losing money. He CLAIMS he is, but nobody loses 10-20 million dollars a year and keeps that business. He isn't a billionaire for nothing. Between the cable contract, ticket sales, concessions, I'm sure he's making plenty of money. What he ISN'T doing, is putting money back into the product. Think of it this way, you have a GREAT restaurant that everyone loves, why ? because they use the BEST ingredients, they hire the best chefs, THEY PUT MONEY BACK INTO THEIR PRODUCT. Now think of some bad restaurants you've been to. The place is a mess, the food tastes like ****, and they refuse to put money back into their product. The Isle's are the 2nd one.

Computer Associates doesn't hurt either

 

[Isles Fan]

I guarantee you Wang isn't losing money. He CLAIMS he is, but nobody loses 10-20 million dollars a year and keeps that business. He isn't a billionaire for nothing. Between the cable contract, ticket sales, concessions, I'm sure he's making plenty of money. What he ISN'T doing, is putting money back into the product. Think of it this way, you have a GREAT restaurant that everyone loves, why ? because they use the BEST ingredients, they hire the best chefs, THEY PUT MONEY BACK INTO THEIR PRODUCT. Now think of some bad restaurants you've been to. The place is a mess, the food tastes like ****, and they refuse to put money back into their product. The Isle's are the 2nd one.

Wang lost $1.2 Mil last year according to Forbes.

 

[Strummergas]

It was a joke, but would I be surprised if it happened....not at all, thats how dumb of a GM we have.

OK, gotcha.

 

[Frankie41987]

Thank you Scott.

Obviously someone pays attention to this team.

Doesnt just pretend too because they have Vanek on their Fantasy Squad

Moulson and Tavares did have great chemistry, especially on the power play. But it wasn't the type of grinding cycling chemistry that really relieves pressure off the defense. That first line was always (especially last year with boyes) a defensive liability because their play was dependent on one player carrying the puck, digging it out of corners and getting it to the net so that moulson could deflect/hammer home rebounds. There was a reason moulson's even strength goal scoring last year and this year was so low, and it was because that line was never really able to keep sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Vanek does not have that kind of chemistry with JT but if you watch the games I don't know how you can't see that the top line now maintains pressure (KO helps this) and is just as productive (maybe more) than when moulson was here, and that pressure does help relief defensive pressure. And FYI, i didn't like this trade because we lost trade chips for a d man.

 

[Le Grec]

Whats up guys,

I have been silently trolling these boards since last year. Some of you are not going to agree with me but i feel i need to post this to release some of the stress as a NYI fan.

I was born in 82', i remember at 3 years old my neighborhood block banging pots and pans outside when the isles won their 4th cup, something that molded me into the hockey fan i am today. I grew up in the 90's playing street hockey pick up games, watching the Pierre Turgeon era unfold.

I watched the Dale Hunter hit in the 93' playoffs, i broke my goalie stick outside after it happen. I watched us lose to Montreal that year, i cried. I witnessed in person the Ray Ferraro triple overtime game winner against the Caps. I watched on TV when the islanders finally scored a goal in the 94' playoffs against the Rangers. I started chants of 1940!!! On my elementary school bus every morning.
I watched the rangers sweep the isles and win the cup... Ending the 1940 curse.

I stuck around with them till the Yashin and Peca years. But then i lost interest in this forgotten team. The coliseum became a graveyard, and like many many MANY others fans; i gave up on them.

Until last season...

I started following this team again after the Penguins brawl, because i started to notice a hockey team waking up out of its slumber. Last season gave these guys a chance to prove themselves with the shortened season. Boy did they ever. Chants of "Playoffs, Playoffs" filled the Coliseum; echoing through my TV. It brought back n amazing sense of nostalgia that sent chills down my spine. Even though we lost in 6, what an amazing series.

With young players, lots of speed, confidence from last season; i too expected a decent season for 2014.
The first two weeks showed the Islanders picking up where they left off.
Speed up the ice, well thought out fore checking, solid defense, and plenty of shots on goal.

Until... The Matt Moulson trade.

From my own perspective i always felt Tavares and Moulson were one of the best 1-2 punches in the NHL. They always played with speed and tried to make a play/sog anywhere near the net.

Others on the team emulated the speed and transition of these two players. Neilsen and Grabner especially.

Since the very First Vanek shift i couldnt help but notice the slowdown of our #1 line.
JT has not skated well at all and that bloodhound scent for the puck is non-existant.
The overall confidence and swagger of this NYI team has been completely drained by this Moulson trade.
It is extremely apparent each and every night since the trade that these young guys are playing frustrated, second guessing hockey. (Especially JT).

Look Vanek is a good player, but he DOES NOT fit into the speed philosophy that surged this team last year. He is a rock. A sluggish, slow but strong hockey player who really only has a talent for camping the net. He also is quite skilled into accepting good passes and putting them on the net.
But he OBVIOUSLY is NOT molding well with JT.

I have not seen him put a good feed on JT's stick SINCE he came here.

Moulson may not have the respect from people like Vanek has.
Most anyone would agree Vanek is a better player.
But not here in NY.

Moulson obviously loved playing here. He played hard. He made plays. He complimented JT's skill-set and vise versa. These two forwards fed off each other for years, and finally started becoming a noticeable force in the NHL. And now he is gone.

And in the opinion of this hockey fan. Getting rid of Moulson and picking up a Right handed forward like Vanek was a costly mistake. It broke the hearts of JT, Moulson, and fans all across the board.

JT is going to turn into a PM ***** if he cannot find his way again. The frustration is increasing every game. In conclusion, i feel like JT and Moulson needed each other, and this team and this town needed them. We may never see JT play the same again.

Thanks for reading

Getting rid of Moulson was a huge victory in itself.

I think we've all played the armchair coach game, and make what we think would be the best lineup for the Isles.
And i'm pretty sure most of us realized very quickly, including Snow, Cappy, and Gordo, that you have to keep Moulson on the Tavares line because he's too useless to play on any other line.

He had no work ethic, no stamina, and zero balls.
Most of his goals were finishing someone else's play.

And i get that teams need players to play that role.

I was a fan of Mark Parrish, who played a similar role.
And he scored less than Moulson.

But Parrish didn't fall anytime he got touched. He gave out hits when he could. He was a reasonable penalty killer & a responsible 5 on 5 forward.
These things don't show up on score sheets but are crucial to victories.

So, no. I don't think this slide has anything to do with the Moulson trade.

The question i ask myself is, how bad would this slide be if we still HAD Moulson???

 

[Strummergas]

Moulson and Tavares did have great chemistry, especially on the power play. But it wasn't the type of grinding cycling chemistry that really relieves pressure off the defense. That first line was always (especially last year with boyes) a defensive liability because their play was dependent on one player carrying the puck, digging it out of corners and getting it to the net so that moulson could deflect/hammer home rebounds. There was a reason moulson's even strength goal scoring last year and this year was so low, and it was because that line was never really able to keep sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Vanek does not have that kind of chemistry with JT but if you watch the games I don't know how you can't see that the top line now maintains pressure (KO helps this) and is just as productive (maybe more) than when moulson was here, and that pressure does help relief defensive pressure. And FYI, i didn't like this trade because we lost trade chips for a d man.

Excellent points and fair criticism of the trade as well. The line really does dominate at times in the offensive zone. I went to the game in Carolina back in Nov. (1-0 L) and that line was toying with the Carolina defense all night. No, they didn't score, and that remains a bit of an issue (or, at least maybe they should be scoring more), but I'm hoping that it's only a matter of time before they start buying more chances. Of course, secondary scoring would help them as well so the opposing coach wouldn't have such an easy time matching lines, but that's another issue altogether.

 

[scott99]

Wang lost $1.2 Mil last year according to Forbes.

Yet WANG claims he's losing 10-20 million a year. So what and who are we supposed to believe ? If you think Wang doesn't cook the books, you're just naive. Let's not forget his business partner whom he bought the Isles with, wound up in prison for embezzling. This is not a trustworthy or believable man, this is a cut throat businessman who will do anything for a buck, including lie.

 

[scott99]

Moulson and Tavares did have great chemistry, especially on the power play. But it wasn't the type of grinding cycling chemistry that really relieves pressure off the defense. That first line was always (especially last year with boyes) a defensive liability because their play was dependent on one player carrying the puck, digging it out of corners and getting it to the net so that moulson could deflect/hammer home rebounds. There was a reason moulson's even strength goal scoring last year and this year was so low, and it was because that line was never really able to keep sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Vanek does not have that kind of chemistry with JT but if you watch the games I don't know how you can't see that the top line now maintains pressure (KO helps this) and is just as productive (maybe more) than when moulson was here, and that pressure does help relief defensive pressure. And FYI, i didn't like this trade because we lost trade chips for a d man.

Sometimes chemistry isn't just ON the ice. It effects the locker room as well. I remember the 2009 Yankees, they won with Melky Cabrera, Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui. They gladly let all three go in free agency or in trades, brought in Curtis Granderson via a trade, a way superior player to those three mentioned, yet the following year, they were lost without the leadership and chemistry lost by letting those guys go. Chemistry goes a long way when it comes to winning.

 

[12Dog]

Chemistry goes a long way when it comes to winning.[/QUOTE]

So does talent and coaching, maybe more? Using your Yankee analogy, the Billy Martin/Reggie Jackson teams had no love for each other and had pretty good success.

 

[The Lighthouse]

Regardless of chemistry, this team wasn't doing all that well before the Moulson trade either. Whether Moulson, Vanek, or neither plays here, the defense sucks.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

You were born in 82 but 3 when they won their last cup...

Otherwise, do agree that they worked fast in tight.

 

[frankieboy]

I read the thread subject and thought...OK, someone has some ideas about what is wrong and what needs to change. Then, after reading the original post, I realized it was another anti-Vanek thread. Moulson is no where near the player that Vanek is. I'd much rather have Vanek. Now, if we don't sign him, whether we won the trade or lost it depends upon what we get it return. In my opinion, it is doubtful we recoup full value if we can't sign him. I have no idea what he is thinking, but I'd say that it is looking less likely he'll resign the more we lose.

 

[Hipietro]

Oh look, another blame Vanek thread.

Yes, its Vanek's fault that Grabner, Bailey, Regin, Bouchard, and Martin can't produce offensively if their lives depended on it. Its Vanek's fault Visnovsky got hurt and the entire defense is horrendous and we have the 2nd most goals allowed in the NHL. Its Vanek's fault we have below average goaltending. Its Vanek's fault our coach is a moron and refuses to play rookies that earn their spots over ****** vets, and bases his coaching decisions off of superstition. Its Vanek's fault our owner doesn't care about winning.

If you're gonna blame the Isles' struggles on team chemistry being lost, then none of the guys on the team should be playing professional sports. If they're so godamn butthurt because one of their pals got traded then they should all find a new profession. Its the ****ing NHL, you don't get sad and decide to stop producing just because someone was traded. Jesus Lord.