Crowdsourcing the 2016-2017 Opening Night Roster - Poll #9, #3LD

[BigRangy]

23 men will be tasked with traveling to Edmonton and giving the grease a beatdown in their new dome, but it's up to us to decide who gets to go! Let's see what HFFlames thinks the opening night roster should look like.

We'll pick a 23 man roster (for convenience, 14F, 7D, 2G). There will be several key assumptions:

1. Gaudreau is re-signed and will play on the 1st line.
2. Monahan and Gaudreau will play together.
3. Elliott will start, Johnson will back up.
4. Sam Bennett and Mikael Backlund will both play center in the top 9.
5. Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton will all play in the top 4.

I feel that all of these assumptions are 100% likely to be valid, barring injuries of course. If you disagree, post in the thread. If you think more assumptions can be made, post in the thread as well, as it will cut down the # of polls required.

The Roster

Gaudreau-Monahan-Brouwer
Shinkaruk-Backlund-Frolik
#3LW-Bennett-#3RW
#4LW-Stajan-#4RW
spare F #1-spare F #2

Giordano-Brodie
Jokipakka-Hamilton
#3LD-Wideman
spare D

Elliott
Johnson

I'll post the polls every day, and we'll have runoffs based on the following rules:

Run-off rules:
• If first and second place are separated by a number of votes less than or equal to the number of votes for third place, a run-off vote will take place.
• If first and third are separated by a number of votes less than the number of all other votes, a three-way run-off vote will take place.
• Rules are subject to change due to common sense at all times.

______________________________________________


The unenviable task of lugging around Wideman will (probably) fall to someone new this year, with Russell still being a free agent (though rumors are swirling that he is waiting for the JG contract to re-sign in Calgary). That being said, I think everyone expects at least a small bounce back from Wideman after the 2015-16 debacle. Smid's injury status is up in the air, Engelland is better suited for the RD position, and none of the kids are proven. Who's it gonna be?

I'm off to Penticton this weekend so there will be no polls Friday through Monday.

Click to read more...

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Kulak

 

[Calculon]

If Wideman's on the third pairing, then really anybody but Engelland or Smid. The Flames really can't afford to ice a bottom pairing that will be good for a goal or more against per game if they want a successful start to the season.

Went with Wotherspoon because of waivers but Kulak would work as well.

 

[Otzelor]

If he signs a cheap 1yr deal: Russell, otherwise Kulak/Engelland

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

For the love of God, please be Kulak or Spoon, or give Smid abilities he hasn't had in half a decade.

Anybody but Engelland.

 

[Skobel24]

I'd like to see Engelland - Wideman given another chance under a (hopefully) better system.

I went with Engelland. Russell would be my preference, but Bobby Mac has said he's signing in Toronto.

I apparently misunderstood that interview. I'd say Russell - Wideman, especially given their chemistry from the previous season, and a new coach.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'll go with Dyrek Engallend.

 

[Volica]

Spoon for me. Engelland should be our 7th. Or when we need more physicality vs the Widedog being in.

Give Wotherspoon a chance, because he had skills that if developed would be a major improvement over Engelland.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Spoon for me. Engelland should be our 7th. Or when we need more physicality vs the Widedog being in.

Give Wotherspoon a chance, because he had skills that if developed would be a major improvement over Engelland.

That's how I would like to see it too, but man....8 mill wasted on 6th & 7th D is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Lunatik]

Wotherspoon is not even in the same stratosphere as Engelland. Wotherspoon has potential but until he starts making better decisions he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL, let alone a regular.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Wotherspoon is not even in the same stratosphere as Engelland. Wotherspoon has potential but until he starts making better decisions he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL, let alone a regular.

Seeing the stratosphere is the lowest atmospheric level, I'd say that's pretty fitting when describing Engelland/TSpoon & Wideman.

 

[Lunatik]

Seeing the stratosphere is the lowest atmospheric level, I'd say that's pretty fitting when describing Engelland/TSpoon & Wideman.

Sorry I'm no science major but it's amazing how you can understand that but not understand Wotherspoon struggles to much in the AHL to be an NHL regular.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Seeing the stratosphere is the lowest atmospheric level, I'd say that's pretty fitting when describing Engelland/TSpoon & Wideman.

What if he was talking about the hotel in Las Vegas?

 

[InfinityIggy]

Wotherspoon is not even in the same stratosphere as Engelland. Wotherspoon has potential but until he starts making better decisions he doesn't deserve to be in the NHL, let alone a regular.

I am curious to see how Wotherspoon does in camp/preseason. I can certainly see a situation where he makes it into our top 6. I am not that high on him but I also wouldn't count him out.

 

[Anglesmith]

Seeing the stratosphere is the lowest atmospheric level, I'd say that's pretty fitting when describing Engelland/TSpoon & Wideman.

The troposphere (where we live) is the lowest level. The stratosphere is above that, where the ozone layer sits. From the Earth's surface to the stratosphere is about 8 km.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Sorry I'm no science major but it's amazing how you can understand that but not understand Wotherspoon struggles to much in the AHL to be an NHL regular.

Oh I understand that TSpoon is not an NHL regular yet, but I also understand that Engelland/Wideman is wasted salary. It really wouldn't be hard to find an upgrade on them. Tspoon is just 1 possibility.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

The troposphere (where we live) is the lowest level. The stratosphere is above that, where the ozone layer sits. From the Earth's surface to the stratosphere is about 8 km.

Well then ofcourse they are not in the same stratosphere - they're in the same troposphere!

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Honestly, I'd rather have Engelland play RD on the 3rd pair over Wideman, and have one of the younger guys in Kulak or Wotherspoon (hopefully) take the #3 LD spot.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Honestly, I'd rather have Engelland play RD on the 3rd pair over Wideman, and have one of the younger guys in Kulak or Wotherspoon (hopefully) take the #3 LD spot.

I agree actually. We have enough offensive firepower on the backend without Wideman honestly.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Balls. Voted Wotherspoon because I didn't see Engelland and forgot about him.

Also is this real life? Not a single vote for Kylington on a CFHF Poll?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Balls. Voted Wotherspoon because I didn't see Engelland and forgot about him.

Also is this real life? Not a single vote for Kylington on a CFHF Poll?

He's just not ready. Nice hair though.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

He's just not ready. Nice hair though.

I don't get the Engelland hate, he was easily our 5th best dman overall last season. No he doesn't provide offence, but he's a decent enough skater, he actually hits and can clear the crease better than anyone else on our backend. He can also fight 2 guys at once.

I don't mind Tspoon, but at this point he's the one that needs to prove himself, not Engelland. Tspoon or Kulak or whoever needs to take a spot from somebody, I don't see Engs losing his job due to the need he fills.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I don't get the Engelland hate, he was easily our 5th best dman overall last season.

For starters, Engelland is a RD. Putting him at LD is a mistake. It's like when we were putting David Moss at #1 centre, it's just asking for trouble. We saw what happens already last year with the Engelland-Wideman pairing, they just don't work together. Two relatively slow RDs with the antithesis of defensive chemistry.

No he doesn't provide offence,

The problem is, when he is on the ice the team's offense drags to a halt. And no, offense isn't everything but you hope to have enough offense to be outscoring the opponent when you're on the ice right? But the team doesn't stop the opponent from scoring when Engelland is on the ice as much as people think they do. Look at the impact on goal differentials:

Player | GF% With Eng | GF% Without Eng
Backlund | 47.4| 51.2
Stajan | 45.5 | 47.0
Monahan | 46.9 | 48.8
Jooris | 33.3 | 52.6
Bennett | 55.0| 47.1

Other than Bennett, everybody else saw the team look worse with Engelland. Okay, I get it. He's a 3rd pair D, they're never going to fair great in a stat like this but you can still shelter your crappy bottom pair and get positive results. For example

Players | GF% C w Sheltered D | GF% C w/o Sheltered D
Toews w Rundblad | 75.0 | 57.1

Backlund w Nakladal | 75.0 | 54.1
Bennett w Nakladal | 50.0 | 48.6
Davidson w Draisaitl | 73.3 | 46.6
Davidson w Hopkins | 66.7 | 41.4

There is a certain element I want from a bottom pair. Play your sheltered minutes and kill time in the offensive zone by pinching well, holding in well, and retrieving clears well. If you score, great, if not, get a few shots through to the net for a freeze in play for a different pair to come on.

Is Engelland horrible at hockey? Maybe not at an AHL level. But at the NHL level he is an inefficiency that other teams look to exploit. Why do we need to actively sabatoge our bottom pair to fit a certain "visual" (Tough, mean grinder who clears the crease)? The best bottom pair we've had in the four years of the Hartley era was...Schlemko-Diaz...By far. An undersized blue liner we signed off a PTO, and a guy we picked up off waivers. Why because they fit a sheltered role and that's not a bad thing because they excelled in that role while Brodie, Russell, and Wideman carried the mail on higher pairings.

Say what you will about Wideman, but we have a legitimate chance to outscore the opponent when he is on the ice in a 3rd pair role because of his offensive capability. Give him a partner who is mobile to play a very tight gap, and is strong on the breakout. Even Kulak can play that role and he doesn't need to defend well in his zone to do it, because he won't be in his zone often.

but he's a decent enough skater, he actually hits and can clear the crease better than anyone else on our backend.

I'll agree with those points. And I'll counter with:

- He can't clear the defensive zone very well, so Stajan, Monahan, etc get hemmed in where their defensive flaws get magnified

- He can't hold the offensive zone remotely well, so Ferland, Stajan, Bennett etc can't get a good cycle going.

- The team is playing 4-on-5 with him on the ice, and we don't have a stacked forward group like Dallas or Pittsburgh to get away with it.


There is exactly one scenario where Engelland is a great fit: if Oliver Kylington makes the team and plays left side, Engelland on Right. Kylington and Engelland have games that actually fit together. But I don't think anyone wants OK on the Flames yet, I don't.

He can also fight 2 guys at once.

I bet so can Conor McGregor. We should sign him. Oh wait not tall enough

 

[Calculon]

It's not really about Engelland, it's the simple fact that a Engelland-Wideman pairing is an absolute horror show which no system can fix, particularly one that emphasizes speed and possession. It's about fit and what will work the most on the ice, not which player has seniority. Or at least that's the way it should be.

I too would rather have Engelland over Wideman as the 3rd RD as the former brings something unique to the group (truculence) while the latter is wholly redundant but that contract is a hard one to move. And I suspect the Flames will keep Wideman in the lineup even when he shouldn't be in a vain attempt to bolster his trade value by the deadline. Hopefully it doesn't handicap Gulutzan too much.

 

[Lunatik]

I'm glad you have a crystal ball Calc. Saying nothing can fix it is ridiculous and I would say completely false. All it will take is for Wideman to bounce back a little and that pairing would look completely different, add in a more responsible system and it could be like night and day. A coach writing it off without them playing together under this new system would be short sighted and irresponsible.