Crosby's struggles part II

[Czech Your Math]

I'm not so sure. More than Crosby, a lot of his injuries have been ones where he both misses time and plays through nagging problems, so his numbers look worse those years. Crosby's major injuries have been more ones where you miss games until you're almost back to 100%, so his per game numbers aren't as affected.

This... not sure why most people don't see the difference.

 

[daver]

I'm not so sure. More than Crosby, a lot of his injuries have been ones where he both misses time and plays through nagging problems, so his numbers look worse those years. Crosby's major injuries have been more ones where you miss games until you're almost back to 100%, so his per game numbers aren't as affected.

I don't think it is as black and white as this save for Crosby's concussion/neck issue. And I think Malkin should be viewed more in the injury-prone category rather than the what if he didn't play through nagging injuries category. He has played only one season of 70 or more games since 2009. I don't think you can say with the same certainty as Crosby that he puts up more Art Ross winning seasons if not for his injuries as he has had some mediocre, injury-free partial seasons (2011, 2013), and he simply hasn't been able to play full seasons for quite awhile.

Don't want to turn this into a Crosby vs. Malkin thread, I just disagree with the assertion that Malkin's legacy gets unfairly penalized due to his injuries compared to how Crosby's legacy is viewed.

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

Crosby has turned to perimeter player, even if he starts producing more points it will not be the Crosby we know, on the other hand Ovie is playing as good as ever, my point is in couple of seasons it will not be even a question who is better overall, for now Crosby's PPG from the good old days still keep him in the conversation

I love how people act like they know what will happen in a few years lol. I call this argument when this whole thread and HFboards does it the "Momentum Ad Infinitum," argument. When a player sucks he will suck forever and if a player if playing elite he will play elite forever. There is no way Ovechkin will ever go -35 again. The Caps will stay in elite form with all of the same players until Ovechkin retires. Not even a bead of sweat of worry. Lol.

 

[ForzaItalia]

Maybe that goal from last night will get him going from here on in.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Crosby has turned to perimeter player, even if he starts producing more points it will not be the Crosby we know, on the other hand Ovie is playing as good as ever, my point is in couple of seasons it will not be even a question who is better overall, for now Crosby's PPG from the good old days still keep him in the conversation

You realize he had the highest PPG% in the league as recently as last season right? You might want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There's probably a bigger chance that Crosby is the better player in 2-3 years as he is not as dependent on his physical game as Ovechkin is.

 

[Syckle78]

You realize he had the highest PPG% in the league as recently as last season right? You might want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There's probably a bigger chance that Crosby is the better player in 2-3 years as he is not as dependent on his physical game as Ovechkin is.

Yea that just isn't true. Ovie will be an effective difference maker for as long as he decides to stay in the league. That shot and awareness to know know where to be isn't going anywhere.

 

[Fergus]

There's probably a bigger chance that Crosby is the better player in 2-3 years as he is not as dependent on his physical game as Ovechkin is.

How exactly is Ovechkin physical other than hits? He doesn't go to corners at all to take abuse like Crosby used to do.

 

[crawz87]

Slap silly Sidney. So he can wake up already.

 

[SEALBound]

I love how people act like they know what will happen in a few years lol. I call this argument when this whole thread and HFboards does it the "Momentum Ad Infinitum," argument. When a player sucks he will suck forever and if a player if playing elite he will play elite forever. There is no way Ovechkin will ever go -35 again. The Caps will stay in elite form with all of the same players until Ovechkin retires. Not even a bead of sweat of worry. Lol.

Remember from 2012 to 2015 when Ovechkin was all but irrelevant when talking about elite players in the league. I do. But then again I remember things about hockey and the league beyond a single season...or heck the week using recent HF poster standards.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Remember from 2012 to 2015 when Ovechkin was all but irrelevant when talking about elite players in the league. I do. But then again I remember things about hockey and the league beyond a single season...or heck the week using recent HF poster standards.

This smug, condescending post would carry more weight if you didn't start by saying Ovy was irrelevant from 12-15 (he won the Hart in 2013) then go on to talk about how good you are at remembering stuff.

 

[Syckle78]

Remember from 2012 to 2015 when Ovechkin was all but irrelevant when talking about elite players in the league. I do. But then again I remember things about hockey and the league beyond a single season...or heck the week using recent HF poster standards.

What?

 

[Plural]

Remember from 2012 to 2015 when Ovechkin was all but irrelevant when talking about elite players in the league. I do. But then again I remember things about hockey and the league beyond a single season...or heck the week using recent HF poster standards.

This is one of the most hilarious posts I've ever seen on this site. Yeah, dude. You totally have great memory.

 

[Acallabeth]

It was a sarcastic post.

 

[armyjoe]

Yeah he only reminded how people were treating ovie back then in this same forum.

 

[Plural]

Ahh...makes sense. Seems like my meter was way off.

 

[NeilYoung]

Remember from 2012 to 2015 when Ovechkin was all but irrelevant when talking about elite players in the league. I do. But then again I remember things about hockey and the league beyond a single season...or heck the week using recent HF poster standards.

Man Ovechkin must really be amazing if he won the hart in 2013 and was still "irrelevant"

Glad your memory is so"great" though

 

[Shrimper]

Hopefully Crosby can get a two point night against the Sharks tonight and start streaking.

 

[Regal]

I don't think it is as black and white as this save for Crosby's concussion/neck issue. And I think Malkin should be viewed more in the injury-prone category rather than the what if he didn't play through nagging injuries category. He has played only one season of 70 or more games since 2009. I don't think you can say with the same certainty as Crosby that he puts up more Art Ross winning seasons if not for his injuries as he has had some mediocre, injury-free partial seasons (2011, 2013), and he simply hasn't been able to play full seasons for quite awhile.

Don't want to turn this into a Crosby vs. Malkin thread, I just disagree with the assertion that Malkin's legacy gets unfairly penalized due to his injuries compared to how Crosby's legacy is viewed.

I don't think it's black and white, and Crosby deserves credit for not missing a beat really when he's played shortened years, but while Malkin may not have been an Art Ross winner, I can't see him not turning it around and still being among the leaders in any of the shortened seasons. But instead of getting "what ifs" like Crosby, he usually just gets the "bad season" label. That's partly on him for not putting up the numbers in the shortened time, but I think his legacy would still be higher is he had played them out.

 

[ForzaItalia]

Hopefully Crosby can get a two point night against the Sharks tonight and start streaking.

Pens schedule gets tougher from here on out. Crosby threw away a good potential to stockpile points versus some weaker teams in the first 20 games so far.

 

[daver]

I don't think it's black and white, and Crosby deserves credit for not missing a beat really when he's played shortened years, but while Malkin may not have been an Art Ross winner, I can't see him not turning it around and still being among the leaders in any of the shortened seasons. But instead of getting "what ifs" like Crosby, he usually just gets the "bad season" label. That's partly on him for not putting up the numbers in the shortened time, but I think his legacy would still be higher is he had played them out.

It's not so much this, it's that Makin seems to be more deserving of the 'injury-prone' label rather than having bad luck with injuries. He can't seem to play a full season as of late.

 

[Midnight Judges]

How exactly is Ovechkin physical other than hits? He doesn't go to corners at all to take abuse like Crosby used to do.

Well, first of all, yes he does, difference being he is much harder to abuse than Crosby. Secondly, he also goes to the net and parks himself and battles with defenseman fairly often. He also frequently drives the net very hard.

 

[hockey4sale]

I feel like if Malkin can stay healthy for full season he will win Art Ross every year, unlike Crosby he is almost the same player as 6 years ago, the problem is the last time Malkin played all 82 games was in 08/09 season, and when he could play at least 75 games like in 2011/12 he won Art Ross

 

[ForzaItalia]

Well, first of all, yes he does, difference being he is much harder to abuse than Crosby. Secondly, he also goes to the net and parks himself and battles with defenseman fairly often. He also frequently drives the net very hard.

 

[Classicnamesup]

You guys realize Crosby has never once in his career played a full 82 game season, right? Malkin has twice

 

[spiny norman]

At 1000 posts, on to part III.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1986359