Crosby vs Ovechkin

[Hank Plank]

Another caveat to the argument for Ovi, if not already mentioned: he strikes me as a Jagr type who won’t quit playing hockey until nobody wants him anymore. And with his playing style and body, he will for sure last into his 40’s.

Crosby on the other hand, while he loves the game and may want to play as long as he can too, is softer and has a concussion history which will likely result in him retiring at least 5 years earlier than Ovi will, mark my word.

This is where Ovi will really pass Crosby. He’ll smoke him in career goals and points, and probably even assists as well. And that’s more time too to add to his already impressive trophy case.

This is hilarious.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

This is hilarious.

-The best thing I read on here all day is Ovi is going to pass Jagr in points. He's 800 points behind Jagr!!!!! ROFL at Capital fans. Simply ROFL

 

[Varan]

I'm glad Ovechkin finally won a cup. It was long overdue.

But let's not pretend one cup suddenly makes them equals.

And here's the simplest and most powerful argument for it.

What do actual NHL players think?

Best player in the NHL?

A:
Sidney Crosby 70%
Alex Ovechkin 0%

Most overrated player in the NHL?

A:
Alex Ovechkin 2nd 8%
Sidney Crosby 0%

That's according to actual NHL players that play against both of them.

Hockey is a 200 foot game. Scoring goals and blasting one timers is exciting but it's not "hockey", it's part of hockey.

What I was most impressed with about OV this year is that he actually played some semblance of defense. I've seen tons of games against my Pens and he never saw his own goalie, let alone blocked a shot or attempted anything that would resemble defense.

The fact that he played closer to a 200 foot game is a testament to why they finally won.

In 10 years both these guys will be retired and we'll be talking about how great it was to watch both of them.

just have a question. if you had swapped current 2018 OV with peak OV (07-10) in these playoffs, would they have still won the cup?

 

[illpucks]

just have a question. if you had swapped current 2018 OV with peak OV (07-10) in these playoffs, would they have still won the cup?

It depends if Barry Trotz trusts peak OV as a leader. He did this season and it was clear. I'd argue last couple of seasons he didn't and that's why they brought in Williams. The big questions are if Trotz trusts him as a leader and if he can be a leader to the caliber he is now.

 

[Varan]

It depends if Barry Trotz trusts peak OV as a leader. He did this season and it was clear. I'd argue last couple of seasons he didn't and that's why they brought in Williams. The big questions are if Trotz trusts him as a leader and if he can be a leader to the caliber he is now.

I mean it's not like OV has had trouble listening to his coaches in the past, he's done everything asked of him by whoever the coach is. So I believe whatever Trotz asked him to do, he would follow suit don't you think?

 

[illpucks]

I mean it's not like OV has had trouble listening to his coaches in the past, he's done everything asked of him by whoever the coach is. So I believe whatever Trotz asked him to do, he would follow suit don't you think?

Ya but its little things like not putting him on the ice in the last few minutes of a one goal game when there is EN is saying "I don't trust your defensive skill as much as I do some other players". It's better now but even game 5 Ovi sitting on the bench during last minute or two.

So if Trotz thinks there are better leaders than Ovi then he won't be looked to as the leader. Which is tough when he's captain and best player on team.

 

[Varan]

Ya but its little things like not putting him on the ice in the last few minutes of a one goal game when there is EN is saying "I don't trust your defensive skill as much as I do some other players". It's better now but even game 5 Ovi sitting on the bench during last minute or two.

So if Trotz thinks there are better leaders than Ovi then he won't be looked to as the leader. Which is tough when he's captain and best player on team.

but do you think that is generally true? the best player on a team HAS to be the leader. I'm not saying OV isn't the leader or a leader, it's just weird to concur best player = best leader.

for example: The Golden State Warriors. the best player depending on your preference is either Steph Curry or Kevin Durant. However majority of the fans of the Warriors and NBA in general would say the leader is Draymond Green. He is constantly seen getting in the faces of the Warriors to fire them up during timeouts or during half-time.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

-The best thing I read on here all day is Ovi is going to pass Jagr in points. He's 800 points behind Jagr!!!!! ROFL at Capital fans. Simply ROFL

Not a Caps fan. I can’t see Ovie passing Jagr in points and I have never heard any Caps fan expressing that point of view.

I don’t even think Crosby would be able to do that, either.

 

[JeremyTB]

-The best thing I read on here all day is Ovi is going to pass Jagr in points. He's 800 points behind Jagr!!!!! ROFL at Capital fans. Simply ROFL

There is a chance he won't even pass Thornton in points. He's 305 points behind Jumbo and Thornton's career is not over yet.

 

[Corto]

Not a Caps fan. I can’t see Ovie passing Jagr in points and I have never heard any Caps fan expressing that point of view.

I don’t even think Crosby would be able to do that, either.

I think it's borderline funny how most fans today have no idea of how dominant peak Jagr was.

Peak Jagr was a superior to both Crosby and Ovechkin.
But the "newer" fans only remember the post-2005-lockout Jagr (who still put up more points than either Sid or Ovie ever did).

Peak Jagr > peak Ovie and Crosby.
Career Jagr > career Ovie and Crosby.

 

[daver]

I think it's borderline funny how most fans today have no idea of how dominant peak Jagr was.

Peak Jagr was a superior to both Crosby and Ovechkin.
But the "newer" fans only remember the post-2005-lockout Jagr (who still put up more points than either Sid or Ovie ever did).

Peak Jagr > peak Ovie and Crosby.
Career Jagr > career Ovie and Crosby.

The older fans don't have too high an opinion of Jagr's ability to play a solid all around game, be a good leader or have a great individual Cup run.

Crosby has already surpassed Jagr's career and OV is right behind him.

You may want to check this thread out for some actual well thought out discussion:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/where-does-ovie-now-rank-all-time.2500955/page-13

 

[Corto]

Crosby has already surpassed Jagr's career and OV is right behind him.

That's hilarious.

Neither ever came remotely close to how Jagr dominated in the late 90s/early 2000s.

 

[daver]

That's hilarious.

Neither ever came remotely close to how Jagr dominated in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Sorry, I didn't realize that they didn't come "remotely close". Can you express that in terms of Art Rosses, Rocket Richards, Harts, Lindsays, playoff runs, and Conn Smythes?

I am sure that these will clearly show how Crosby and OV are not "remotely close",

And why should we limit a player's career to less than half of the seasons they played? A better use of the descriptor "remotely close" would be applied when comparing the first four years of Jagr and Crosby.

 

[Corto]

Sorry, I didn't realize that they didn't come "remotely close". Can you express that in terms of Art Rosses, Rocket Richards, Harts, Lindsays, playoff runs, and Conn Smythes?

I am sure that these will clearly show how Crosby and OV are not "remotely close",

They will.

First off, lets scratch team success off of comparing individual players. It's utterly ridiculous.
Put Crosby or AO on the 1998 or 99 Penguins, they probably don't even make the playoffs, let alone knock off first seed Devils.
Put peak Jagr with Malkin on the Pens, they likely win more Cups.

Second, Jagr won 5 Art Rosses, more than the other two combined, missing as much as 19 games in one of those seasons.
He also missed an almost-peak year of hockey due to lockout, and when the lockout ended, still nearly won another Art Ross on a team predicted to be dead last.

Third, and I cannot stress this enough... Watch the actual games. Jagr was Crosby and Ovie in one. The speed, the strength, the talent, the puck control, the moves, the backhand, the passing... The only thing he was missing from his game was a slap shot which he only really started working on in DC.

The man was scoring more points in the middle of the dead puck era than Sid or Ovie after the lockout with a million PPs per game.
And more importantly, he was above his peers, constantly, regardless of injuries, and with inferior teams. Above players like Sakic, Yzerman, Fedorov, Bure, Forsberg, etc.
At the same time, Sid and Ovie get constantly outscored and outperformed by one player or the other... Sedins, Kane, Malkin, etc.

Harts and Lindsays? Jagr was pretty much robbed of two Harts (one went to Pronger, one to Thornton), and lost twice to historic seasons by Hasek.
Meanwhile, it's not like Sid and Ovie are Ronaldo and Messi and the award bounces between the two of them.
They've been outperformed by numerous players, Kane, St. Louis, McDavid, Price, Peryy, Sedin #1, Sedin #2, etc.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Jagr was an amazing player. Till he got to the Caps that is, got a boatload of money to pay his gambling debts and admitted he didn’t put in full effort.

 

[Hippasus]

Its not even about points

Crosby is an all-time great at WINNING, he can will his team onto victory, and is a master at center ice

Mc David, and I don't think he gets enough flack for this, did nothing but shrug his shoulders as his team went down the tubes, the only time he started playing with passion is when he publically admitted he was playing for the Art Ross, THEN he started trying...

...WTF was that??

So far, Mc David hasn't proved himself worthy of carrying Sid's jock strap

BS. McDavid was one of the best and hardest working Oilers all season.

 

[Hippasus]

"and players still see him still in his prime"

This obviously shows that Crosby's career is being considered, not just his 16/17 season; that Crosby was the best/co-best with OV for ten years, and he is still going strong. There is nothing there to indicate that his 44 goal seasons moved him up a level from what he was over the previous ten years which was an all around offensive force.

They were judging on the basis of 16-17.

 

[sovietsanta87]

just have a question. if you had swapped current 2018 OV with peak OV (07-10) in these playoffs, would they have still won the cup?

Depends. Do they still have the straw that stirs the drink aka Kuznetsov?

 

[Spirit of 67]

can one really say that Crosby has outperformed Ovechkin thus far?

Yes.

Easily.

 

[sovietsanta87]

the “I’ll take the guy with more goals” crowd is hysterical.

If Sidney Crosby was concerned purely on scoring goals he would shoot the puck more. Ovechkin has led the league in shots 11 of his 13 years in the league. The fact that Crosby has still won two rocket Richards is astounding.

We talk so much about “peak ovechkin” yet leave out that Crosby was quality over quantity during that time. He outscored OV by 1 goal in 09-10 and everyone screams “OV played less games!!!” True. But he still finished with 70 more shots than Crosby. Again, if goal scoring was Crosby’s number 1 concern instead of winning, he would lead the league in goals. But since he’s a more dynamic player, he takes his shots when they’re available but also has the ability to find his teammates and make them better.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Wait. I'm SURE I've seen this thread before. If only there was a search button where I could check ...