Crosby vs Kucherov: whos IQ is better?

[Offtheboard412]

When I notice that a lot of people on this site post some bullshit like this as examples of great hockey iq, I realize that these people seem have no idea what this term is mean

Please great grand wizard of hockey, show me your big brain hockey I Q. So I can understand like you do. Teach me "what this term is mean."

Explain how that isn't an example of smarts. He realized he couldn't touch the puck or it would be blown dead, saw that he could position himself in a way that he could get the defender to touch the puck without being able to just take it off his stick with full possession and head the other way, and also realized that Lundqvist would probably be caught off guard by a shot at that moment.

Seems like a good example of hockey I Q. to me, considering the examples I see in this forum are usually a player making a nice stickhandling move and then... passing the puck to an open player.

 

[Beau Knows]

I didn't say anything about plus minus.

given how often opposing teams score

That is where half of the plus/minus rating comes from...

If goals against = how good an individual player is at defense. Does that mean goals for = how good they are at offense?

 

[bobbyking]

you never saw peak Crosby play. the d is pure trash today that's why goals are up and players look better then they are

 

[CanMerc]

Crosby in his prime, but Kutcherov now

 

[GlitchMarner]

Crosby had great physical skills and attributes to complement his IQ. He was strong as hell on his skates, had tremendous lower-body strength and was a great skater in his prime.

Kucherov is a player who has to rely on his vision, timing, anticipation etc to score at absurdly high levels. His skills are pretty good, but his attributes (size, strength etc) aren't anything special compared to numerous other highly productive players (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, MacKinnon etc).

Not that that automatically makes him the answer.

 

[Sky04]

Crosby had great physical skills and attributes to complement his IQ. He was strong as hell on his skates, had tremendous lower-body strength and was a great skater in his prime.

Kucherov is a player who has to rely on his vision, timing, anticipation etc to score at absurdly high levels. His skills are pretty good, but his attributes (size, strength etc) aren't anything special compared to numerous other highly productive players (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, MacKinnon etc).

Not that that automatically makes him the answer.

This is a good description of both, but the biggest thing that differentiates them is risk analysis, which I'd argue is part of IQ. Crosby is probably one of if not the lowest risk player in the league, yeah he has his fairshare of highlights but the majority of his playmaking game is smart, accurate passes that make him look "boring" while Kucherov will take absurdly high risks to make a play that probably only he can see which leads to some brutal turnovers or highlight of the week. Obviously these pan out more than not but there's definitely a level of risk that's higher with his type of playmaking.

you never saw peak Crosby play. the d is pure trash today that's why goals are up and players look better then they are

You obviously never saw Crosby play considering the defense he played against his first 3 years were some of the leagues worst, half those guys could barely skate under the new rules. This is probably one of the most ironically dumb statements I've ever seen.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That would be ovechkin

Ovechkin was on the ice for 97 goals against this season?

Nope. That would be Crosby.

In fact Ovechkin has never been on the ice for that many goals against in a season in his entire career.

 

[Realgud]

Kucherov but the actual answer is Lidstrom.

 

[authentic]

Very debatable if Crosby is a better stickhandler than Kucherov, and as far as their shots go, Kucherov has the better wrist shot and one timer.

Also, Kucherov's linemates >>> Crosby's for basically all of their prime seasons, other than Malkin on the powerplay (which arguably doesn't help Crosby as much as the set up Kucherov has in Tampa anyway where everything runs through him and he has two one timer options and a big blast from the point in Hedman). I think Kucherov's IQ is top notch don't get me wrong, but he does not quite score those points on most other teams in the league. Put both in identical situations at their peak and prime and I find it hard to believe Crosby doesn't outscore him.

Kucherov outscored prime McDavid, and not once but twice. Given McJesus has infinitely better hockey tools it means Kucherov >> him when it comes to IQ, and McDavid's IQ isn't that low...

McDavid's IQ is ridiculously high lol

Put it this way, McDavid for an entire two months this season when he wasn't injured had more assists than Kucherov had points, and Kucherov was still scoring at his 140+ point pace during that time frame.

 

[Kshahdoo]

McDavid's IQ is ridiculously high lol

Put it this way, McDavid for an entire two months this season when he wasn't injured had more assists than Kucherov had points, and Kucherov was still scoring at his 140+ point pace during that time frame.

Exactly. Injures negated his tools, and his IQ wasn't high enough to compete vs Kucherov.

 

[authentic]

Exactly. Injures negated his tools, and his IQ wasn't high enough to compete vs Kucherov.

That’s a weird conclusion to draw from that. McDavid outscores Kucherov massively almost every season, and had more assists than he had points for 2 months this season while still not able to shoot like he normally does.

 

[General Fanager]

Yea Ill go with Crosby for sure.....

 

[Beau Knows]

Ovechkin was on the ice for 97 goals against this season?

Nope. That would be Crosby.

In fact Ovechkin has never been on the ice for that many goals against in a season in his entire career.

Yet he still managed to end up with a brutal -22, putting him in the top 40 for the green jacket. Does that mean he was terrible at even strength?

 

[Kshahdoo]

That’s a weird conclusion to draw from that. McDavid outscores Kucherov massively almost every season, and had more assists than he had points for 2 months this season while still not able to shoot like he normally does.

With his tools advantage over Kucherov he must outscore Kucherov every season, but he doesn't.

 

[authentic]

With his tools advantage over Kucherov he must outscore Kucherov every season, but he doesn't.

Last season when both were healthy and Kucherov didn't score 14 empty net points McDavid outscored him by 40 points.

I will say though, that Kucherov is not a wrong answer for best hockey IQ, but it's not drastically better if at all than players like McDavid and Crosby IMO, but maybe it is by a bit. He has deception, timing, vision, slowing the game down to an exact science it seems but he's also helped tremendously from the chemistry he's developed with an elite cast of linemates who compliment his game perfectly.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

IQ isn't about vision, it's about doing right things at the right time. And when you score 144 points while not having Ovechkin's shot, McDavid's speed and puck skills, Malkin's physical tools etc it means you do those right things at the right time very-very often, almost always.

Or you just are talented and abandon any defensive responsibilities

 

[Kshahdoo]

Or you just are talented and abandon any defensive responsibilities

Fairy tales about two-way monsters McDavid and MacKinnon are, well, fairy tales.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Crosby.

Kucherov had the a better vision

 

[Michael Farkas]

Kucherov outscored prime McDavid, and not once but twice. Given McJesus has infinitely better hockey tools it means Kucherov >> him when it comes to IQ, and McDavid's IQ isn't that low...

This is specious reasoning.

 

[Kshahdoo]

This is specious reasoning.

Nah, it's pretty reasonable reasoning.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Nah, it's pretty reasonable reasoning.

It's quite illogical. I think you know this, so I won't go too deep into it. I think you're just having a piss.

McDavid isn't "infinitely better" at hockey than Kucherov. And "tools" and "IQ" are not the only factors that determine raw season point totals. It's a long way to go to try to account for 12 points in five additional games.

Your hypothesis and/or "process" are not valid. So, it's unlikely that you'll end up with a valid result.

 

[Turin]

If Kucherov had Crosby's hockey IQ it wouldn't have taken him a few years to become an elite player after playing in mens leagues previously. Crosby as a teenager went from playing against QMJHL players to NHLers and was a top 10 player in the NHL immediately at 18. By the time Kucherov had his first 100 point season Crosby had never paced for less than 100, had won a Cup, a scoring title, Hart, lead the playoffs in points and goals and had scored 50 goals.

IQ isn't about vision, it's about doing right things at the right time. And when you score 144 points while not having Ovechkin's shot, McDavid's speed and puck skills, Malkin's physical tools etc it means you do those right things at the right time very-very often, almost always.

Kucherov has elite passing skills, shooting skills and puck handling skills and is very agile and light on his feet. What are you talking about? No he's not the best passer of all time or the best shooter of all time, but yes he is elite at both of those things.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Crosby in his prime, but Kutcherov now

IQ deteriorates?

 

[Mike C]

Probably two smartes players in post-Gretzky era, but who of them is smarter?

That's like trying to compare Page and Blackmore. Who's better? Either will do just fine

I'll call it a tie

 

[killa3312]

Or you just are talented and abandon any defensive responsibilities

MacKinnonn sucks defensively.