Coyotes Town Hall @ The Ice Den (Jul 7 - 7PM)

[Dirty Old Man]

Those poor millionaire professionals.

Hey, Moss didn't check out

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Hey, Moss didn't check out

Did he ever actually check in?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Did he ever actually check in?

Just in time to wreck the tank right?

 

[rt]

Moss shows up big when the games are meaningless and played at half speed. He's not the as Sultan of scrimmage. The Prince of practice. The Pharoah of friendlies.

 

[cobra427]

If Tip plays the rookies and they don't make the playoffs, that's not bad coaching that's just growing pains and if we want him to progress as a coach, he needs that flexibility. Demanding playoffs with this squad is unreasonable and it's how you end up with guys like Moss playing ahead of guys like Domi. IMO the only thing Tip needs to do this season is play the kids, show some patience when they inevitably do some dumb things and otherwise let the chips fall where they may.

I think Tip is going to play more kids this year because they are more ready and they deserve it. If DM tells Tip or if Tip thinks, play the kids and if our record is poor, that is fine. I disagree with that and hear is why. Every player has to be accountable to the same standards. If rookies are making mistake after mistake, and Tip keeps them in the line up because they were a high draft pick or we have high expectations, that is a mistake. That is exactly how you lose the room by not making them accountable. The vets have the same standard but a little more leeway because they have a proven track record. It is a fine line.

I am not ok with playing youth and then using it as an excuse for a poor record. TGO/Barnett and the Oilers went that route, doesn't work.

 

[Sinurgy]

I think Tip is going to play more kids this year because they are more ready and they deserve it. If DM tells Tip or if Tip thinks, play the kids and if our record is poor, that is fine. I disagree with that and hear is why. Every player has to be accountable to the same standards. If rookies are making mistake after mistake, and Tip keeps them in the line up because they were a high draft pick or we have high expectations, that is a mistake. That is exactly how you lose the room by not making them accountable. The vets have the same standard but a little more leeway because they have a proven track record. It is a fine line.

I am not ok with playing youth and then using it as an excuse for a poor record. TGO/Barnett and the Oilers went that route, doesn't work.

It's not an excuse, playing the rookies is almost certainly going to help them on their way to a poor record but at some point you need to let the Domi's and the Duclair's of the world cut their chops. It doesn't mean you let them be complete idiots and get away with it but you accept they're going to make a good amount of mistakes that will lose you games. I'll say it again, I think it's cheesy for people to clamor for Tip to play the kids (not that you were one of those) and then ***** when the team doesn't do well. This is the first season after the start of a true rebuild, there's going to be growing pains. Anyone expecting to compete for playoffs this season needs harbor much more realistic expectations.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I'll say it again, I think it's cheesy for people to clamor for Tip to play the kids (not that you were one of those) and then ***** when the team doesn't do well.

I'm fairly sure most around here will have enough self-awareness to understand the trials and tribulations of a young team cutting their teeth in the league.

*****ing about last season's team was a whole different ballgame, because the kids needing to cut their teeth were held out in favor of some truly underwhelming veteran players - in that case, complaining about the poor quality of play was almost a necessity.

 

[XX]

I think it's cheesy for people to clamor for Tip to play the kids (not that you were one of those) and then ***** when the team doesn't do well.

When did this happen?

 

[cobra427]

It's not an excuse, playing the rookies is almost certainly going to help them on their way to a poor record but at some point you need to let the Domi's and the Duclair's of the world cut their chops. It doesn't mean you let them be complete idiots and get away with it but you accept they're going to make a good amount of mistakes that will lose you games. I'll say it again, I think it's cheesy for people to clamor for Tip to play the kids (not that you were one of those) and then ***** when the team doesn't do well. This is the first season after the start of a true rebuild, there's going to be growing pains. Anyone expecting to compete for playoffs this season needs harbor much more realistic expectations.

If Domi and Duclair as an example, play as well as Reider did last year or better, that would make the team better, not worse. Tip is going to expect at least that level of play from them to get meaningful minutes. We should be better because of them, not playoff team better, but better. So I disagree in that we shouldn't accept that we will lose more games then we would have by playing kids.

 

[roadrunner]

Yeah Rieder's play is an intersting way to look at who crashes the camp in a cpl months. That's the standard.

 

[lanky]

Yeah Rieder's play is an intersting way to look at who crashes the camp in a cpl months. That's the standard.

If I remember correctly Rieder didn't perform that well in camp and he got cut. He did well in Portland and earned a callup early then never let go of his spot.

 

[hbk]

If I remember correctly Rieder didn't perform that well in camp and he got cut. He did well in Portland and earned a callup early then never let go of his spot.

No. He played well; especially in Kraft hockey vile game. It was between him and Hodgson for opening day roster.

 

[Jakey53]

It's not an excuse, playing the rookies is almost certainly going to help them on their way to a poor record but at some point you need to let the Domi's and the Duclair's of the world cut their chops. It doesn't mean you let them be complete idiots and get away with it but you accept they're going to make a good amount of mistakes that will lose you games. I'll say it again, I think it's cheesy for people to clamor for Tip to play the kids (not that you were one of those) and then ***** when the team doesn't do well. This is the first season after the start of a true rebuild, there's going to be growing pains. Anyone expecting to compete for playoffs this season needs harbor much more realistic expectations.

Good post. That is how a rebuild works. But I guarantee, there will be people calling for a coaching change because of our record.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm fairly sure most around here will have enough self-awareness to understand the trials and tribulations of a young team cutting their teeth in the league.

*****ing about last season's team was a whole different ballgame, because the kids needing to cut their teeth were held out in favor of some truly underwhelming veteran players - in that case, complaining about the poor quality of play was almost a necessity.

I disagree, I don't think the kids were ready last year, and most aren't this year. Like DT said, you have to be ready mentally and physically. You get to cut your teeth, as you say, when you are ready.

 

[Jakey53]

I think Tip is going to play more kids this year because they are more ready and they deserve it. If DM tells Tip or if Tip thinks, play the kids and if our record is poor, that is fine. I disagree with that and hear is why. Every player has to be accountable to the same standards. If rookies are making mistake after mistake, and Tip keeps them in the line up because they were a high draft pick or we have high expectations, that is a mistake. That is exactly how you lose the room by not making them accountable. The vets have the same standard but a little more leeway because they have a proven track record. It is a fine line.

I am not ok with playing youth and then using it as an excuse for a poor record. TGO/Barnett and the Oilers went that route, doesn't work.

I agree and disagree. If say Domi and Duclair are ready, which they could be, you let them play, but they will make mistakes because of inexperience. It's if they correct those mistakes, or become accountable or aware of these mistakes it's fine. If they continue to make the same mistakes then they should sit.

 

[cobra427]

I agree and disagree. If say Domi and Duclair are ready, which they could be, you let them play, but they will make mistakes because of inexperience. It's if they correct those mistakes, or become accountable or aware of these mistakes it's fine. If they continue to make the same mistakes then they should sit.

Agreed, and if they make the same mistakes, Tip will sit them out, they won't get a free pass because of expectations. I think it is a process to make it in the NHL, and we have to remember that. Reider was down first and then back up, OEL was up for a while and then back to the AHL. When we see some playing/press box/AHL time for our favorite young players, it is normal, part of the process.

I will say that if Domi/Duclair make the opening roster (I think they will) and stay up for all 82 games, they will be impact players for us. If Tip never sits them or sends them back down to work on their game, they will both have to be at Reiders level or better, and we will all be happy with that.

 

[kihekah19*]

I agree and disagree. If say Domi and Duclair are ready, which they could be, you let them play, but they will make mistakes because of inexperience. It's if they correct those mistakes, or become accountable or aware of these mistakes it's fine. If they continue to make the same mistakes then they should sit.

Correct. Ready means so many things - physically, mentally and ability to adjust to the next level, to name a few.

 

[Jakey53]

Correct. Ready means so many things - physically, mentally and ability to adjust to the next level, to name a few.

Yup.

 

[Sinurgy]

I'm fairly sure most around here will have enough self-awareness to understand the trials and tribulations of a young team cutting their teeth in the league.

That's what I'm hoping.

When did this happen?

It hasn't yet and I'm hoping it doesn't.

If Domi and Duclair as an example, play as well as Reider did last year or better, that would make the team better, not worse. Tip is going to expect at least that level of play from them to get meaningful minutes. We should be better because of them, not playoff team better, but better. So I disagree in that we shouldn't accept that we will lose more games then we would have by playing kids.

Well "better" is a relative term. I still expect them to lose plenty but I expect there will be a lot less complete ass kickings and I hope to see some flashes of brilliance that give us a better hope for the future. I expect a poor record and I don't think Tip's head should roll because of it (unless he once again benches all the kids) unless the wheels come completely off or if he benches the kids a lot.

 

[starman]

Did he ever actually check in?

Yeah, he did, but then he got his glove caught in the door.