Coyotes still owe rent for 2019/2020 UPD - Post #217 (Reconciled)

[Ernie]

According to Katie Strang:



Not a great sign. Also from Elliotte Friedman's 31 thoughts:

18. These jobs are coveted, but Arizona’s situation scared some candidates. The late per diems during the playoffs. Delayed bonuses. (Some clarity here: Instead of direct deposit, the Coyotes asked players for addresses to mail the cheques. That wasn’t received very well, seen as a pure delay tactic, with the NHL/NHLPA eventually stepping in.) That situation didn’t get attention until Sept. 1, when several NHLers were affected, but it first came up in July when the organization was late with a $45,000 bonus due to AHLer Tyler Steenbergen. Originally, he was told the cheque had been mailed, before the money was deposited two weeks later. Last week came an arena lease dispute with ASM, which manages the facility. It claims the Coyotes owe rent, although a couple of sources indicate the team wants to either re-negotiate the lease or wait until closer to next season to pay. Whatever the case, it’s a lot to absorb. Armstrong, however, was not deterred. He refused to back away from the challenge.

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[Llama19]

 

[Mightygoose]

I know things have not been easy re Covid, but come on now. How can a billionaire be behind in this type of expense? Most of the ticket and game related revenues would have been collected for the regular season before the pandemic happened.

Yes it looks like Meruelo wants to renegotiate the lease but rent was supposed to be for this season.

Meruelo is looking more like Melnyk west by the day. Can't the league help out like they did in 'Arizona East'?

 

[Bondurant]

I know things have not been easy re Covid, but come on now. How can a billionaire be behind in this type of expense? Most of the ticket and game related revenues would have been collected for the regular season before the pandemic happened.

Yes it looks like Meruelo wants to renegotiate the lease but rent was supposed to be for this season.

Meruelo is looking more like Melnyk west by the day. Can't the league help out like they did in 'Arizona East'?

Meruelo is trying to sift through the mess he probably didn't realize he was buying into. Uncle Gary swindled him. Things will get better once the new GM comes in and all of the execs can get shit together. I think so, anyway. We shall see.

 

[Mightygoose]

If Gary and co. really did misrepresent the state of the franchise then it's very concerning. Covid will expose any inefficacy with any business and this team is no exception.

The pandemic costed them, 8 home games and they we're not likely to make the playoffs anyways. If that caused them to issues to not make rent and want to renegotiate, what will happen is there will likely more than 8 games lost and with no/few fans next year? How can he make it a go plus finance a new arena down the road with such a thin margin or error?

Question about the lease, the Coyotes have an auto renewal to act or not act on by the end of the year. Does ASG have the same clause if they're not satisfied? ASG can opt out of their contract with Glendale so they don't have to take a wash on this.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

This team has not had a proper owner in a long time. People can hold out hope that one will come and bring stability but let's be honest, if a good owner like that did exist then they are not buying a hockey team in the desert because they don't find it viable and they're correct. They'll buy a baseball team or a football team but they probably recognize that hockey is not working there and that's why the team has not found a good owner in the past 15 years even though the franchise has been on sale for what you'd consider a discount price to other NHL teams.

At this point, it's Bettman's pride which is keeping them there.

 

[TheLegend]

If Gary and co. really did misrepresent the state of the franchise then it's very concerning. Covid will expose any inefficacy with any business and this team is no exception.

The pandemic costed them, 8 home games and they we're not likely to make the playoffs anyways. If that caused them to issues to not make rent and want to renegotiate, what will happen is there will likely more than 8 games lost and with no/few fans next year? How can he make it a go plus finance a new arena down the road with such a thin margin or error?

Question about the lease, the Coyotes have an auto renewal to act or not act on by the end of the year. Does ASG have the same clause if they're not satisfied? ASG can opt out of their contract with Glendale so they don't have to take a wash on this.

ASM Global had a clause in their original contract with the city allowing them to back out of their management agreement if the Coyotes left.

There's been an extension of that contract since then, but I don't know if that clause is still in there.

As for the auto renewal part of the lease with the Coyotes I believe ASM Global does have to ability to terminate the renewal clause.

 

[Mightygoose]

ASM had a clause in their original contract with the city allowing them to back out of their management agreement if the Coyotes left. (still edititing)

Yes, that was the part I was missing. So worst case scenario, if ASM and the Coyotes can't come to terms, I don't see any risk on the operator's part. If the Coyotes leave then they can part ways with Glendale.

Glendale would no longer have tenant and would need to seek a new arena operator. At the same time would be virtually zero chance of a 3rd arena they would need to compete with.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, that was the part I was missing. So worst case scenario, if ASM and the Coyotes can't come to terms, I don't see any risk on the operator's part. If the Coyotes leave then they can part ways with Glendale.

Glendale would no longer have tenant and would need to seek a new arena operator. At the same time would be virtually zero chance of a 3rd arena they would need to compete with.

Depends. ASM Global extended their contract with Glendale and nothing was mentioned if they could still leave if the Coyotes did. If both the Coyotes and ASM Global left, it wouldn't be the factor in the Coyotes building another arena on their own. The fallout from this pandemic is the 800-pound gorilla the room right now.

Coyotes are contracted to pay $500k rent per year to play at the arena and we're talking about at the moment is an installment(s) of it not being paid. No mistaking Meruelo's really juggling his cash flow right now. His wanting to renegotiate the lease is probably motivated from the possibility of the next season starting without fans being able to attend, and I would imagine his position is if they won't need in-game staff (ushers, concessions, security) he shouldn't have to still pay for that part.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

At this point, it's Bettman's pride which is keeping them there.

Do you know how NHL actually works? Because I don't think you do.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

This team has not had a proper owner in a long time. People can hold out hope that one will come and bring stability but let's be honest, if a good owner like that did exist then they are not buying a hockey team in the desert because they don't find it viable and they're correct. They'll buy a baseball team or a football team but they probably recognize that hockey is not working there and that's why the team has not found a good owner in the past 15 years even though the franchise has been on sale for what you'd consider a discount price to other NHL teams.

At this point, it's Bettman's pride which is keeping them there.

Are you just not familiar with Alex Meruelo, his business history, or anything he's done at the head of the Coyotes organization over the past year. I highly suggest you read about him, you definitely need it.

What is keeping them there is the potential to become a team like Dallas, where they are a fairly popular team in a huge metro area. An organization like that makes more money than any Canadian hockey market not named Toronto or Montréal. That isn't Bettman's pride. That is realizing market potential. Alex Meruelo saw it and is well on his way to fulfilling it.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Depends. ASM Global extended their contract with Glendale and nothing was mentioned if they could still leave if the Coyotes did. If both the Coyotes and ASM Global left, it wouldn't be the factor in the Coyotes building another arena on their own. The fallout from this pandemic is the 800-pound gorilla the room right now.

If I recall correctly, AEG acknowledged (post-extension) the provision remained but it didn't factor (matter) in their decision to extend.

 

[Fatass]

If the owner wants to move his team to Quebec City is there a fee he has to pay to the league?

 

[Habby4Life]

When is the NHL going to declare the Arizona move a failure? I feel bad for Yotes fans continually dealing with this mess year after year.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The NHL needs to either let them move to another market or contract them. What's happening in Arizona is beyond an embarrassment for the league. It's been tried and hockey simply doesn't work in the desert. That's the reality. People can try to justify keeping the team there (the amount of money invested in the club, the players like it, etc...) but hockey is not successful and it's cost some people everything they have ever owned. If the NHL is intent on keeping them out west, why not move them to Utah? There's a history of hockey there, so why not put a pro club there?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

The NHL needs to either let them move to another market or contract them. What's happening in Arizona is beyond an embarrassment for the league. It's been tried and hockey simply doesn't work in the desert.

Vegas says hi. And it's less than half as big as greater Phx.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The NHL needs to either let them move to another market or contract them. What's happening in Arizona is beyond an embarrassment for the league. It's been tried and hockey simply doesn't work in the desert. That's the reality. People can try to justify keeping the team there (the amount of money invested in the club, the players like it, etc...) but hockey is not successful and it's cost some people everything they have ever owned. If the NHL is intent on keeping them out west, why not move them to Utah? There's a history of hockey there, so why not put a pro club there?

Hockey doesn't work in desert but you want them to move to Salt Lake City?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Let's go through every single ridiculous thing you say:

The NHL needs to either let them move to another market or contract them.

Current owner doesn't want them to move. They have a future in Phoenix. End of story.

What's happening in Arizona is beyond an embarrassment for the league.

How is it embarrassing? They're losing money, but they're also gaining ground. In a very bad year, they lost $15 million last year. Winnipeg, with almost maxed out performance, lost about $8 million.

It's been tried and hockey simply doesn't work in the desert. That's the reality.

Vegas is in the desert? It's not working there? The highest priced ticket and also one of the quickest to sell out in the league?

People can try to justify keeping the team there (the amount of money invested in the club, the players like it, etc...) but hockey is not successful and it's cost some people everything they have ever owned.

Who has it cost? I can't think of anyone who has lost everything they have ever owned because "hockey isn't successful in Arizona."

If the NHL is intent on keeping them out west, why not move them to Utah? There's a history of hockey there, so why not put a pro club there?

Because Salt Lake City doesn't have anyone able/willing to buy a team, it is likely too small to have a NBA team and NHL team, the arena situation doesn't work, and hockey history doesn't mean a NHL team is deserved. Saskatoon has had a longer hockey history, that doesn't mean they're more capable of having a team than Phoenix.

 

[Llama19]

Glendale officials: Arizona Coyotes owe more than $500K to arena manager; city waiting on its cut of revenue

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2020/09/17/az-coyotes-behind-payments-city-hasnt-seen-its-share-money/3480642001/

 

[Mightygoose]

Glendale officials: Arizona Coyotes owe more than $500K to arena manager; city waiting on its cut of revenue

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2020/09/17/az-coyotes-behind-payments-city-hasnt-seen-its-share-money/3480642001/

Interesting that it's over 500K they owe. Seems like more than just for the 8 lost games.

Curious to see what happens after the end of October. Until then according to the article, they're not 'late'.

All is well in the world

 

[voyageur]

Let's go through every single ridiculous thing you say:



Current owner doesn't want them to move. They have a future in Phoenix. End of story.



How is it embarrassing? They're losing money, but they're also gaining ground. In a very bad year, they lost $15 million last year. Winnipeg, with almost maxed out performance, lost about $8 million.



Vegas is in the desert? It's not working there? The highest priced ticket and also one of the quickest to sell out in the league?



Who has it cost? I can't think of anyone who has lost everything they have ever owned because "hockey isn't successful in Arizona."



Because Salt Lake City doesn't have anyone able/willing to buy a team, it is likely too small to have a NBA team and NHL team, the arena situation doesn't work, and hockey history doesn't mean a NHL team is deserved. Saskatoon has had a longer hockey history, that doesn't mean they're more capable of having a team than Phoenix.

what's your source on those losses because at first glance Winnipeg more than doubles the Coytoes for gate receipts, in US dollars. Is that after revenue sharing and NHL credit loans?

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale officials: Arizona Coyotes owe more than $500K to arena manager; city waiting on its cut of revenue

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/2020/09/17/az-coyotes-behind-payments-city-hasnt-seen-its-share-money/3480642001/

Clickbait headline.

What the story actually said:

“The NHL team was supposed to pay $500,000 in rent, in addition to other fees, to the arena management company ASM Global, which manages the city-owned venue, by June 30. ASM then shares a piece of that funding with the city.

In two of the past three years, ASM has paid the city by June 30. But Glendale is still waiting. The company has until the end of October to pay the city before it would be considered late per the contract.”

So what we have is.....

Coyotes pay their rent and fees to ASM. Per the contract ASM, ASM pays Glendale for not just the Coyotes, but all other events they book to the arena.

But because ASM hasn’t paid anything to Glendale yet it’s assumed it’s all on the Coyotes (as usual)

Seem to recall not too long ago that there was a dust up about game employees not receiving pay for eight home games lost that the Coyotes has pledged to cover. Coyotes had claimed they had supplied the funds to ASM for that but ASM hadn’t paid the employees.
(I’m at work and not able to dig the article up atm)

So... we really don’t know who is owed what yet. I’m sure the Coyotes are behind getting their rent payment in. But ASM also had to cancel or reschedule a lot of other events they probably had money out for as well.

 

[TheLegend]

Interesting that it's over 500K they owe. Seems like more than just for the 8 lost games.

Curious to see what happens after the end of October. Until then according to the article, they're not 'late'.

All is well in the world

Article doesn’t say that Moose.

You DID read the article didn’t you?? If not I quoted the pertinent part right above.

 

[Stumbledore]

what's your source on those losses because at first glance Winnipeg more than doubles the Coytoes for gate receipts, in US dollars. Is that after revenue sharing and NHL credit loans?

Since the Winnipeg Jets are a private company which does not release a financial statement, we are left with whatever speculation / calculation / divination people are able to find. And as I said in another post somewhere, when someone demands that you "back-up" your figures you should expect them to deny whatever evidence you produce.

Statistica.com said that in 2018/2019 the Jets had a paper loss of about $ 1.6 million US.

The CBC in February, 2020 said that the 2018/2019 Jets "lost as much as a million dollars, American."

Barclay Donaldson, without specifying a season, said that "Winnipeg, with almost maxed out performance, lost about $8 million."

You can believe whoever you want to believe.

I believe I'm going to have a nap.

 

[Stumbledore]

Article doesn’t say that Moose.

You DID read the article didn’t you?? If not I quoted the pertinent part right above.

Err.... I think you're confusing moose with goose.

I'm the silver one; he's the mighty one.

There's other ways to tell us apart, but I'm too modest ....