Recalled/Assigned: Coyotes recall Tyler Gaudet
- Thread starter Mosby
- Start date
Some posters just do not like DT. It wouldn't matter what he does, they just do not like him. We are all fans and have our own opinions. We all second guess decisions made by coaches, but none of us are anywhere near the team or have a feel for team chemistry etc. etc. etc. It's easy to be a arm chair coach, but coaches have to make a split second decision a lot of the times during the games. Like any organization, some are better than others, and I'm glad we have one of the better ones.
Because two rookies are pulling his team along? Wouldn't that fact make it clear he lost out on potential success by not being more willing to put young players in larger roles in prior seasons?
Some of you are hilarious with the DT devotion.
Because two rookies are pulling his team along? Wouldn't that fact make it clear he lost out on potential success by not being more willing to put young players in larger roles in prior seasons?
Some of you are hilarious with the DT devotion.
roadrunner
Registered User
Feel free to elaborate on what you don't get. Why would a coach get coach of the year because his two rookies pulled the team along at the start of the season? It isn't like we have some well oiled machine of a team. At the start of the season, our offense was Domi, Duke, and Hanzal. That's it. Poor PP, poor PK, and even all the fancy stats were against us.
Because two rookies are pulling his team along? Wouldn't that fact make it clear he lost out on potential success by not being more willing to put young players in larger roles in prior seasons?
Some of you are hilarious with the DT devotion.
There's been plenty of Tippett slamming over the years for not playing the young guys more. Gormley and Rundblad suffered through it. Then they were traded and proved that Tippett was right to not give them the reigns. Turris is really the only young player to develop with another team and he left after Tippett seemed ready to give him a bigger role.
Having Domi and Duclair tear it up doesn't suggest that Rundblad, Gormley, Lessio or Hodgman deserved more playing time.
That's not how it (it being development) works. Believing it to be that way is what shields Tippett from criticism when in some cases it's fully warranted.
Turris still has some shift to shift inconsistency in his own zone. He's a top 6 player but has never reached expectations as a whole.
We currently have 6 rookies on the roster. I think Tippett has exceeded expectations thus far this season. Both in overall team points and rookie development.
Because two rookies are pulling his team along? Wouldn't that fact make it clear he lost out on potential success by not being more willing to put young players in larger roles in prior seasons?
Some of you are hilarious with the DT devotion.
You mean like Runblad/Gormley playing more last year? Runblad should be flourishing in Chicago with guys like Keith/Seebrook/Chalmerson carrying the load and the fact that they are a high possession team. Chicago fans hate Runblad, he just is not a good player. Gormley couldn't crack the Colorado line up, a team with the 6th worst GAA per game this year.
I think the Tip hating is more hilarious. 5-4-1, 7 road games, predicted to be last in the NHL. So far this year, Tip is getting more out of less, and he deserves some credit for that.
The original comment inferred that if the team kept up it's play (at that point they had earned 11 points in 9 games) DT could be in the running for the Jack Adams and then you posted about how the team was being pulled along by two rookies which you claimed is proof of why rookies in previous years didn't work out. Then of course was the snarky and somewhat ironic quip about OP's devotion to DT. Do you really think the people nominating coach of the year are thinking "yeah but he needed rookies and he didn't use other rookies from the past, so that's proof he's not a good coach"? That's why I posted the not sure if serious because it sounded more like you just were just trying to get your hater on regardless if it made sense to or not.
Anyway it's pretty straight forward, when a team that most expected to finish last makes it into the playoffs, that coach is almost always up for the Jack Adams. There's really nothing more to it and that's all OP was inferring.
Now will Tippet actually take the Coyotes to the playoffs, almost certainly not so the debate is moot. haha
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RABBIT
wasn’t gonna be a fan but Utalked me into it
I've been a pretty consistent Tippett slammer for a couple years now, but i will say this. I do, as of right now, admit I've been wrong about some of the decisions he's made.
1. I was very high on both Gormley and Rundblad. I was convinced they'd be top 2 defensemen for us. Both have struggled tremendously so far, even with other clubs (Rundblad more than Gormley to this point.) Now, people will make arguments that Tippett's choice not to play them may have stunted their growth, but i highly doubt that. They still practiced with the team every time, and i highly doubt any of us went to every practice to see if he was actually playing well enough to get a spot in the lineup. Sometimes, prospects just don't work out. Even bona-fide players faceplant. Check out Cheechoo, Gomez and Heatley. Their games didn't translate to the newer, faster NHL. Cheechoo kind of has an excuse, but still. Same with prospects, in every sport really. Gormley and Rundblad remind me a lot of Matt Leinart. They looked badass in College/Juniors before the draft, and they were good, just never quite as good as they needed to be in the big leagues. After finally accepting that Gormley and Rundblad just aren't good enough for the big leagues, i have officially taken the loss to Tippett in this scenario.
2. Sending Max Domi back to juniors, and seeing how much respect Max had for Dave and his decision to do so (they way Tip went about it) absolutely seems now like it was the right choice. Max Domi puked on the ice twice during preseason last year, and looked a helluva lot more shaky then he did this year. His physical maturity was there, but maybe they saw that he just didn't seem to be fully prepared mentally to take on a full-time roster spot, and so they sent him back to gain some confidence as the team captain in a spot where he's very comfortable being. Seems to be working out great. Tie Domi made a comment that Shane Doan told Tie that Max looks comfortable, more comfortable than he's ever seen. His stats and his ice time back that up.
I'll have to admit i was scared Domi and Duclair were going to get sheltered minutes like we've seen in the past, but so far, that doesn't look to be the case. I'm very happy to see that this early on into their careers. Proud of Tippett too. He gives credit to young guns when credit is due.
I think "hype" may have played a big role into my dislike towards Tippett. The prospects that i deemed him responsible for ruining all had a lot of hype attached to them. Gormley had the hype because he "fell" so far in the draft and the Coyotes were lucky to grab such "an absolute steal" on the draft floor. Well, he may have fallen for a reason, who knows now. Rundblad had hype from Ottawa fans because they traded a high draft choice for him and they were afraid they were going to get burned, so they hyped him up as the next Swedish defense God. Then that hype carried over and multiplied when he was traded yet again, because Coyotes fans knew what they were losing in Turris, and were upset about it, so when that stinging grew heavy the week that we lost him, we did the same thing Ottawa fans did, we hyped up Rundblad, when we should've really been paying attention to the blarong red flag attached to the fact that he had already been traded twice in a very young career.
A lot of Blues fans kept it real on HF when Rundblad was traded to Ottawa, they didn't see the hype that everyone else did. Same with some of the Ottawa fans. You'd see 10 comments in a row about how "Phoenix stole a blue chip prospect" followed by one or two Ottawa fans that claimed "good riddance."
Last but certainly not least, the Tippett name has hype to it. Dude is one of the most winningest coaches since the 2004 lockout. No matter what he was fired in Dallas for, and no matter what he's accused of here, the dude knows how to coach. Dallas wasn't necessarily a star-studded team when he got them so many wins, and people seem to forget (including me) how he took a very dusty and underwhelming team to it's first playoff berth in years, and the farthest this team has ever gone in the playoffs in franchise history. There's no coincidence there. I have to keep reminding myself that.
TOO LONG, DON'T READ....but I'll take the loss on those two opinions. I still dislike him for certain reasons, but the two I've been wrong about are pretty big and blaring reasons. So I've backed off. I've learned to do my own research on players more often than coming to HFboards, a place for fanboys who usually have a tendency to blow things out of proportion, and it's keeping my expectations way more realistic. I salivated at the idea of Miele, the goal scoring of Arcobello, the long term domination of Brygalov, the consistent 30 goal scoring Mikkel Boedker, the potential of Bill Thomas and Jeff Taffe...i could go on and on. None of those ever really came to fruition, and most of those were tainted thoughts influenced by HFboards. I'm not going to blame the coaches for bad players, I've been a fan too long to just now realize that tenured coaches and management usually have more stock in their arguments over floppy players. Give me a Melrose/Stamkos situation and I'll run Tippett out of the town with fire, but with every situation we've faced with Tippett, none of them have been that black and white.
So I'll hold my judgment a little bit longer. With all that said, i don't care who he is, he better be in the hot seat now. After 3 mediocre years, you better have him sweating.
AGAIN, TOO LONG, DON'T READ. JUST MINDLESSLY FLOWING/VENTING WORD VOMIT.
1. I was very high on both Gormley and Rundblad. I was convinced they'd be top 2 defensemen for us. Both have struggled tremendously so far, even with other clubs (Rundblad more than Gormley to this point.) Now, people will make arguments that Tippett's choice not to play them may have stunted their growth, but i highly doubt that. They still practiced with the team every time, and i highly doubt any of us went to every practice to see if he was actually playing well enough to get a spot in the lineup. Sometimes, prospects just don't work out. Even bona-fide players faceplant. Check out Cheechoo, Gomez and Heatley. Their games didn't translate to the newer, faster NHL. Cheechoo kind of has an excuse, but still. Same with prospects, in every sport really. Gormley and Rundblad remind me a lot of Matt Leinart. They looked badass in College/Juniors before the draft, and they were good, just never quite as good as they needed to be in the big leagues. After finally accepting that Gormley and Rundblad just aren't good enough for the big leagues, i have officially taken the loss to Tippett in this scenario.
2. Sending Max Domi back to juniors, and seeing how much respect Max had for Dave and his decision to do so (they way Tip went about it) absolutely seems now like it was the right choice. Max Domi puked on the ice twice during preseason last year, and looked a helluva lot more shaky then he did this year. His physical maturity was there, but maybe they saw that he just didn't seem to be fully prepared mentally to take on a full-time roster spot, and so they sent him back to gain some confidence as the team captain in a spot where he's very comfortable being. Seems to be working out great. Tie Domi made a comment that Shane Doan told Tie that Max looks comfortable, more comfortable than he's ever seen. His stats and his ice time back that up.
I'll have to admit i was scared Domi and Duclair were going to get sheltered minutes like we've seen in the past, but so far, that doesn't look to be the case. I'm very happy to see that this early on into their careers. Proud of Tippett too. He gives credit to young guns when credit is due.
I think "hype" may have played a big role into my dislike towards Tippett. The prospects that i deemed him responsible for ruining all had a lot of hype attached to them. Gormley had the hype because he "fell" so far in the draft and the Coyotes were lucky to grab such "an absolute steal" on the draft floor. Well, he may have fallen for a reason, who knows now. Rundblad had hype from Ottawa fans because they traded a high draft choice for him and they were afraid they were going to get burned, so they hyped him up as the next Swedish defense God. Then that hype carried over and multiplied when he was traded yet again, because Coyotes fans knew what they were losing in Turris, and were upset about it, so when that stinging grew heavy the week that we lost him, we did the same thing Ottawa fans did, we hyped up Rundblad, when we should've really been paying attention to the blarong red flag attached to the fact that he had already been traded twice in a very young career.
A lot of Blues fans kept it real on HF when Rundblad was traded to Ottawa, they didn't see the hype that everyone else did. Same with some of the Ottawa fans. You'd see 10 comments in a row about how "Phoenix stole a blue chip prospect" followed by one or two Ottawa fans that claimed "good riddance."
Last but certainly not least, the Tippett name has hype to it. Dude is one of the most winningest coaches since the 2004 lockout. No matter what he was fired in Dallas for, and no matter what he's accused of here, the dude knows how to coach. Dallas wasn't necessarily a star-studded team when he got them so many wins, and people seem to forget (including me) how he took a very dusty and underwhelming team to it's first playoff berth in years, and the farthest this team has ever gone in the playoffs in franchise history. There's no coincidence there. I have to keep reminding myself that.
TOO LONG, DON'T READ....but I'll take the loss on those two opinions. I still dislike him for certain reasons, but the two I've been wrong about are pretty big and blaring reasons. So I've backed off. I've learned to do my own research on players more often than coming to HFboards, a place for fanboys who usually have a tendency to blow things out of proportion, and it's keeping my expectations way more realistic. I salivated at the idea of Miele, the goal scoring of Arcobello, the long term domination of Brygalov, the consistent 30 goal scoring Mikkel Boedker, the potential of Bill Thomas and Jeff Taffe...i could go on and on. None of those ever really came to fruition, and most of those were tainted thoughts influenced by HFboards. I'm not going to blame the coaches for bad players, I've been a fan too long to just now realize that tenured coaches and management usually have more stock in their arguments over floppy players. Give me a Melrose/Stamkos situation and I'll run Tippett out of the town with fire, but with every situation we've faced with Tippett, none of them have been that black and white.
So I'll hold my judgment a little bit longer. With all that said, i don't care who he is, he better be in the hot seat now. After 3 mediocre years, you better have him sweating.
AGAIN, TOO LONG, DON'T READ. JUST MINDLESSLY FLOWING/VENTING WORD VOMIT.
Good post. I agree with what you said except your last paragraph. I blame the ownership (NHL, BK) for the problems in years past. Even this year we have the lowest payroll, and just recently, I think the last two years, the ownership has give DM money for more scouts etc. We have not being on the same level playing field, ever, and in fact we are still behind. As in any business, the employees need tools to work with, it all starts at the top. I think we are heading in the right direction, but it takes time.
Great post Rabbit. My opinion on Tipp is changing too. It's pretty undeniable this season that he is either a changed man, or we truly just didn't have the talent before to push him to give kids decent minutes. We will never know if this is something management has told him he has to do or if he has always been this way. I do remember this past offseason reading an interview where he decided he would stay in AZ and had a long talk with Maloney and ownership (?) about what needs to change going forward and that he would make adjustments. I should try to dig that up.
This season was going to be my "prove it to me" season with Tipp and so far he has. It's easy to point at Rundblad and Gormely, but during those years he also developed Stone and Murphy. Sometimes picks bust, and sometimes lower picks surprise. Only 1/8th through the season but right now I'm happily surprised on how he has coached the team. He could have ended the Boeds experiment a little bit sooner, but at the same time he gave him a fair shot at it. Maybe Boeds kept on asking to stay on the point in hopes that it would improve.
Either way it's been an encouraging season all around. It will be even better if we get another top 4 pick out of it.
This season was going to be my "prove it to me" season with Tipp and so far he has. It's easy to point at Rundblad and Gormely, but during those years he also developed Stone and Murphy. Sometimes picks bust, and sometimes lower picks surprise. Only 1/8th through the season but right now I'm happily surprised on how he has coached the team. He could have ended the Boeds experiment a little bit sooner, but at the same time he gave him a fair shot at it. Maybe Boeds kept on asking to stay on the point in hopes that it would improve.
Either way it's been an encouraging season all around. It will be even better if we get another top 4 pick out of it.
That was a well thought our post, thanks for your comments. I have always thought it is difficult to evaluate Tip or DM with the ownership situation. Because of budget issues, I am not sure if roster decisions by DM were made to save money, meaning not sending a vet down on a one way contract, or able to sign somebody he wanted to at different times. There is always some luck involved with signings, Smith the first time, Bryz, and Whitney signings. DM gets blamed for the Smith signing, but give him credit for passing on Bryz. Obviously Ribs was a mistake.
My view on Tip or any coach is how much does he get out of the talent he has to work with? Does the team over achieve or under achieve? Last year with the roster and the injuries, I can't fault Tip for the results. The year before last, we under achieved. We started out playing well but then Ribs went MIA but we kind of fell apart near the end of that year. Tip couldn't figure out how to get us into the playoffs. Outside of that year, we over achieved as a team 3 years in a row. This year we are clearly over achieving so far. To me, one out of 6 years we under performed, 3 of 6 we over achieved, and one year about right.
Is Tip the right coach moving forward? Tip/DM are looking smart at the moment in the way they have handled young players. Gormley/Runblad were busts, while Reider/Domi/Duclair/Dahlback/Martinook are looking good so far. The knock on Tip handling/playing young guys sure looks like a myth (so far) this season. We are 5-4-1 with 4 rookies getting significant minutes. Who would have thought either of those would be true at the start of the season?
Bottom line is that Tip is doing more with less this season, and doing it with rookies.
Being forced to play rookies because they're carrying the team, as well as having really no other options to replace them, is not a sign of changed ways. There's no evidence for or against so far. No one has ever said that Tippett can't coach, only that he has certain quirks that makes him a bad fit for a rebuilding team. So far, he really hasn't had much of a chance to be hard on Duclair, Domi, or Martinook. They've all been outplaying their veteran counterparts and by a large margin.
Maloney essentially handed Duclair and Domi spots by not signing anybody. You either view that as a preemptive move to force them to get NHL time, or a function of being shut out of the FA market/being cheap. Either way, the organization is benefiting.
He unfortunately hasn't changed his ultra-conservative approach or the rigidity of his system. The entertaining hockey of the first three games was apparently a bizarre combination of sleeping teams and energetic rookies. I would say to wait until more games have been played to really see how things have changed, but small sample sizes seem to be all the rage right now.
Maloney essentially handed Duclair and Domi spots by not signing anybody. You either view that as a preemptive move to force them to get NHL time, or a function of being shut out of the FA market/being cheap. Either way, the organization is benefiting.
He unfortunately hasn't changed his ultra-conservative approach or the rigidity of his system. The entertaining hockey of the first three games was apparently a bizarre combination of sleeping teams and energetic rookies. I would say to wait until more games have been played to really see how things have changed, but small sample sizes seem to be all the rage right now.
Do you mean all the minutes the rookies are getting (is DM forcing those minutes)? Maybe the rookies are actually ready and playing well enough to deserve those minutes, maybe DM saw it, so he didn't sign anyone? Do you mean Tip being ultra conservative by the Z and Elliot pinches that wound up in our net or by playing a forward at the point on the PP and giving up 4 shorties? Those non conservative moves have lead to mistakes in our net, 6 goals that I can think of off the top of my head out of the 28 GA so far this season. Should Tip be more aggressive now or less aggressive?
kihekah19*
Registered User
zerekstar
Registered User
you are right. Tippet has tried some different things that were far away from his normal conservative comfort zone and they have cost the team on the scoreboard. So, he has experimented and where it did not pan out, he moved back to conservative. But he lets the young guys play and he hasn't stifled their game with his conservative coaching. Domi is being allowed to use his flash and I love it. This is all I want or expect this year and as a fan, I'm happy. Next year will be even better and I'm starting to believe Tippet can sail this ship and have success.
Nothing makes XX happy. He hates DM, DT, ownership etc. I would expect that if we were playing like the Habs he would be complaining.
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