Coyotes Hoping For AHL Affiliate In Arizona

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Some people need to just stop throwing stuff against the wall hoping it sticks.... The short answer to this list is no. There are so many holes in making what you propose happen its just ridiculous.

Money is indeed an issue.... To say that teams are benefiting from travel for recalling a player vs. AHL travel within the league is nonsense. It will cost more to operate in the league for everyone after this done. On the surface teams will say they want to have their players closer for recalls, but reality is they want their players closer to save on salary cap dollars. That's where east teams have an advantage.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Money is indeed an issue.... To say that teams are benefiting from travel for recalling a player vs. AHL travel within the league is nonsense. It will cost more to operate in the league for everyone after this done. On the surface teams will say they want to have their players closer for recalls, but reality is they want their players closer to save on salary cap dollars. That's where east teams have an advantage.

Could someone explain to me how having an an affilliate closer to the parent club saves on salary cap dollars? I don't understand that.

 

[adsfan]

Could someone explain to me how having an an affilliate closer to the parent club saves on salary cap dollars? I don't understand that.

I am not usually a fan of "me too" posts. But I am interested in the answer.

I can see how you might save on some team expenses, but not that one.

 

[UticaHockey]

Could someone explain to me how having an an affilliate closer to the parent club saves on salary cap dollars? I don't understand that.

I've seen that mentioned before in other posts but I don't understand how it works either.

 

[Agalloch]

I've seen that mentioned before in other posts but I don't understand how it works either.

Teams want a closer affiliate to expand their brand. That's the biggest reason.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

I've seen that mentioned before in other posts but I don't understand how it works either.

I copied that from another poster...I don't really understand last part either....my bad on this one.

I didn't plagiarize, should have used quote feature.

 

[GindyDraws]

Teams want a closer affiliate to expand their brand. That's the biggest reason.

Pretty much.

You want to tout your future players, but it is more difficult if they are cross-country.

Teams like Buffalo (Rochester and Elmira) and Chicago (Rockford and Indianapolis) will have it easier than teams like San Jose and Vancouver.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Could someone explain to me how having an an affilliate closer to the parent club saves on salary cap dollars? I don't understand that.

Players on Entry Level Contracts can be moved back and forth between the NHL and AHL an unlimited number of times until they have played 60-160 games (depending on their age). Players on ELC's typically get paid less than $100K in the AHL, and roughly 10+ times that amount in the NHL. Since they get paid on a per-day basis, and not a per-game basis, a creative GM could send them down to the AHL on off-days, and in effect cut their NHL salary nearly in half. If you do that for 3 or 4 players, that could save a lot of money over the course of the season.

Edmonton did this a couple of times this past season, where a player was demoted on paper to OKC, but the problem there was that they couldn't practice with either team if they were stuck in Edmonton.

In a place like Toronto or Buffalo, where the AHL franchise is within commuting distance, players would hardly be affected ... they get demoted, stay in their home and simply drive to a different practice.

This explains part of the desire for teams to have their AHL franchise close to the NHL franchise. Obviously, there are other factors at play, but this alone could save a team $1 or 2 million on NHL salaries.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Could someone explain to me how having an an affilliate closer to the parent club saves on salary cap dollars? I don't understand that.

One more potential savings ... NHL teams must keep a roster of 20-23 players. Most currently keep 23, because it is often difficult to recall players in case of an injury. In theory, an NHL team could keep a roster of 20 players, and only recall players from their AHL team when an injury occurs. Obviously, this would depend on the contract status of their players (i.e., they'd only be able to recall certain players without exposing them to waivers), but it's something to consider.

If, for instance, you have a young developing player on an ELC, it would be better to have him playing in the AHL and available as a call-up in case of injury, rather than being on the NHL roster but bouncing in and out of the NHL line-up and thus getting limited playing time. When the AHL franchise is very close to the NHL franchise, this becomes a option.

 

[Avsrule2022]

One more potential savings ... NHL teams must keep a roster of 20-23 players. Most currently keep 23, because it is often difficult to recall players in case of an injury. In theory, an NHL team could keep a roster of 20 players, and only recall players from their AHL team when an injury occurs. Obviously, this would depend on the contract status of their players (i.e., they'd only be able to recall certain players without exposing them to waivers), but it's something to consider.

If, for instance, you have a young developing player on an ELC, it would be better to have him playing in the AHL and available as a call-up in case of injury, rather than being on the NHL roster but bouncing in and out of the NHL line-up and thus getting limited playing time. When the AHL franchise is very close to the NHL franchise, this becomes a option.

Thanks! That does make sense, and could save a considerable amount of money if worked correctly.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

This debate over the need to have the AHL team close to the NHL parent team is completely over blown. Utica and Vancouver has to be one of, if the worst, arrangements in the league for emergency call ups. Hell we don't even have an airport. You have to drive an hour to Syracuse and that airport isn't all that big anyway.

And how many times this season did this create a problem for the Canucks? Technically once but in reality zero. All NHL teams have extra players on the roster that are healthy scratches every game. If someone gets hurt or sick on game day you just dress the guy that would normally be sitting in the press box that night. It really doesn't matter if the farm team is 3 hours or 8 hours away. You call someone up and they are ready to play in the following game.

The only exception are goalies because you don't normally have a healthy one sitting in the press box. Luongo did tweek something a couple hours before game time and Vancouver had to use a one day emergency local guy as a back up in Anaheim this year.

I agree with you, but Vancouver 'Says' they like it. And from what I've seen, it worked out well there. But they should've just moved to Abbotsford and Calgary just to Utica, they knew this was going to happen.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Players on Entry Level Contracts can be moved back and forth between the NHL and AHL an unlimited number of times until they have played 60-160 games (depending on their age). Players on ELC's typically get paid less than $100K in the AHL, and roughly 10+ times that amount in the NHL. Since they get paid on a per-day basis, and not a per-game basis, a creative GM could send them down to the AHL on off-days, and in effect cut their NHL salary nearly in half. If you do that for 3 or 4 players, that could save a lot of money over the course of the season.

Edmonton did this a couple of times this past season, where a player was demoted on paper to OKC, but the problem there was that they couldn't practice with either team if they were stuck in Edmonton.

In a place like Toronto or Buffalo, where the AHL franchise is within commuting distance, players would hardly be affected ... they get demoted, stay in their home and simply drive to a different practice.

This explains part of the desire for teams to have their AHL franchise close to the NHL franchise. Obviously, there are other factors at play, but this alone could save a team $1 or 2 million on NHL salaries.

Actually ELCs are not paying their guys $1 mil per year, usually much less. Secondly, if they are recalled and sent back all the time, this will cause a huge disruption to the players development. Sometimes practicing with the NHL team, sometimes the AHL team.

Also, this only applies when both teams are in town. The western situation would not resolve this since the AHL team traveling will still be 5 or 6 hours from their home base. There are many teams within 4 or 5 hours in the east so the AHL team not being home is irrelevant in most cases. Also, there is a penalty for deliberate cap circumvention which is why you do not see NHL teams doing what you indicate for 3 players before and after each game.

One more potential savings ... NHL teams must keep a roster of 20-23 players. Most currently keep 23, because it is often difficult to recall players in case of an injury. In theory, an NHL team could keep a roster of 20 players, and only recall players from their AHL team when an injury occurs. Obviously, this would depend on the contract status of their players (i.e., they'd only be able to recall certain players without exposing them to waivers), but it's something to consider.

If, for instance, you have a young developing player on an ELC, it would be better to have him playing in the AHL and available as a call-up in case of injury, rather than being on the NHL roster but bouncing in and out of the NHL line-up and thus getting limited playing time. When the AHL franchise is very close to the NHL franchise, this becomes a option.

Most teams only keep 20 to 21 players on their roster. This is because if they have someone injured and call a player up, the injured player (short term) does not get removed from the roster or the cap calculation.

 

[wildcat48]

I've seen that mentioned before in other posts but I don't understand how it works either.

Because NHL salaries are calculated on a daily basis, eastern teams can save money because it takes less time to recall and reassign a player than it does for a team in the west. An eastern team can often wait longer before recalling a player, and can send them back right afterward. NHL teams are on the hook for the player’s salary from the moment they submit the recall paperwork to the league office until the player has been reassigned. In the west it’s normally an average of three days, which include a day of travel to recall the player, game day and day of travel to return. It may not be often, but it adds up and I like I’ve said previously there was fix for it during CBA talks. A player’s salary wouldn’t count against the cap until they either practiced or played a game for the NHL club and it would stop counting once the NHL league office received transaction paperwork of a player’s demotion. But, no go.

 

[dotcommunism]

This debate over the need to have the AHL team close to the NHL parent team is completely over blown. Utica and Vancouver has to be one of, if the worst, arrangements in the league for emergency call ups. Hell we don't even have an airport. You have to drive an hour to Syracuse and that airport isn't all that big anyway.

And how many times this season did this create a problem for the Canucks? Technically once but in reality zero. All NHL teams have extra players on the roster that are healthy scratches every game. If someone gets hurt or sick on game day you just dress the guy that would normally be sitting in the press box that night. It really doesn't matter if the farm team is 3 hours or 8 hours away. You call someone up and they are ready to play in the following game.

The only exception are goalies because you don't normally have a healthy one sitting in the press box. Luongo did tweek something a couple hours before game time and Vancouver had to use a one day emergency local guy as a back up in Anaheim this year.

A thing to keep in mind regarding this point is that Buffalo, when they were at home, had to bring in one of their video guys as an emergency backup goaltender (when Miller was traded to St. Louis) and their AHL affiliate is about an hour's drive away

 

[aparch]

A thing to keep in mind regarding this point is that Buffalo, when they were at home, had to bring in one of their video guys as an emergency backup goaltender (when Miller was traded to St. Louis) and their AHL affiliate is about an hour's drive away

Rochester was playing at Chicago the night of the Miller trade.

Also, the Blues were at Anaheim that same night, and they also had to ATO a video coordinator (Anaheim's) for that night as Elliott got the start.

After making the trade official, could Jake Allen have been flown from O'Hare to Anaheim in time for the game? Possibly, with the two hour time gain.

It would have been tougher to get Hackett back East in time for the Sabres game though.


It was just the perfect storm of all four teams playing at the same time.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Rochester was playing at Chicago the night of the Miller trade.

Also, the Blues were at Anaheim that same night, and they also had to ATO a video coordinator (Anaheim's) for that night as Elliott got the start.

After making the trade official, could Jake Allen have been flown from O'Hare to Anaheim in time for the game? Possibly, with the two hour time gain.

It would have been tougher to get Hackett back East in time for the Sabres game though.


It was just the perfect storm of all four teams playing at the same time.

This situation happens more often than you think as the AHL team plays 38 games on the road.....

 

[UticaHockey]

All of this supports my point that having the AHL team close to the NHL parent for easy call ups is overrated.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Actually ELCs are not paying their guys $1 mil per year, usually much less.
Also, this only applies when both teams are in town. The western situation would not resolve this since the AHL team traveling will still be 5 or 6 hours from their home base.

Look at the Leafs. They have three players on ELC, all with cap hits of $890K (give or take). So, yes, not $1 million, but pretty close.

The simple fact of the matter is that for teams close to the cap, moving these players up and down a few times over the course of the season could save enough cap space to make a difference. It's not millions of cap space, but a couple of hundred thousand could make the difference at the trade deadline.

Central to the AHL West proposal is limited - if any - travel to play teams in the East. The AHL schedule is already heavily imbalanced ... as one example, OKC played Texas 11 times in the regular season. So, it's not a huge stretch to believe that a West division team would play 60+ games - if not its entire schedule - in the Western have of North America.

 

[wildcat48]

Look at the Leafs. They have three players on ELC, all with cap hits of $890K (give or take). So, yes, not $1 million, but pretty close.

The simple fact of the matter is that for teams close to the cap, moving these players up and down a few times over the course of the season could save enough cap space to make a difference. It's not millions of cap space, but a couple of hundred thousand could make the difference at the trade deadline.

Central to the AHL West proposal is limited - if any - travel to play teams in the East. The AHL schedule is already heavily imbalanced ... as one example, OKC played Texas 11 times in the regular season. So, it's not a huge stretch to believe that a West division team would play 60+ games - if not its entire schedule - in the Western have of North America.

They are not 890K in the AHL.... They're likely making $65 or 75K while playing in the minors.

 

[MiamiHockey]

They are not 890K in the AHL.... They're likely making $65 or 75K while playing in the minors.

Exactly. That's precisely why NHL teams want to be able to make these transactions - to save on the salary (and make cap room - for those teams close to the cap limit).

 

[Tommy Hawk]

The cap room situation you are referring to can be done as easily on paper as actually movement of the player.

The whole affiliate to NHL team is a nice to have but in reality, as previous stated, vastly overrated. If the NHL teams and the AHL was so absolutely positive that practice time is more important than game time, then they would have dropped the schedule to a European type schedule of 50 to 60 games.

But you also have to prepare these players coming from a 40-50 game schedule to the grueling 82 game schedule f the NHL.

So, for the Coyotes, they need to purchase a team or convince someone who owns a team to either move it or sell it to someone in AZ and since the Yotes financial situation is in the crapper, I doubt they have the financial capability to do any of this at this time.

 

[210]

I think the issue is practice time as opposed to travel time, not games played.

 

[aparch]

This situation happens more often than you think as the AHL team plays 38 games on the road.....

Yep. I looked up the Wolves and Canucks schedule last year and compared them. There were (I forget the exact number) maybe a dozen times tops where the Wolves were not on the road or traveling while neither were the Canucks. The whole "practice time and ease of callups" is just bull**** fed to sucker investors in a market the team wants to be in.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I think the issue is practice time as opposed to travel time, not games played.

As for practice time, not sure how traveling via plane the day before the game after the morning skate and having a morning skate on the road then flying the morning after the game and having an afternoon skate at home is any different than busing 4 hours after morning skate the day of the game and busing home after the game, getting home at 2 or 3 in the morning and then having afternoon skate the day after the game.

 

[210]

A "morning skate" or "afternoon skate" is not a practice.