OT: Covid-19 (Part 47) Who Can It Be Now?

[ECWHSWI]

It's the question I want to ask my brother. He claims to respect data, then links me to the VAERS site. He believes its numbers – totally unvetted and inflated – represent the tip of a much bigger iceberg of adverse reactions. Evidence? None. But if he claims to be objective, then he has to accept some standard where the vaccine is the logical choice.

On the other hand, I asked the same question to my lady-friend (stupid term, I know, I just have no idea what to call her), my lizard-stripper connection who's a full-blown conspiracy theorist: "What data would you like to see to take the vaccine?". She flat out said, "Nothing! I know!". Discussion is useless.

Youre a perfect example of why we cant just say "too bad for them, ill do my things". And why we should refrain from calling them crazies

I mean, you, fully vaccinated, are clearly bothered by this.

 

[Doublechin]

For those who haven't been vaccinated...

... what data would you need to see in order to get the vaccine?

No data will get them to reconsider. Reason being everything is fake and this is a massive international conspiracy which clearly involves every scientist, every doctor, every nurse, oh but Trump that bragged about pushing the vaccines in order to be released and often refers them as his vaccines, he's against vaccines.

They live in their own miserable bubble, full of conspiracy theories and paranoia, the amount of mental illness that will come from this cult will be something special

 

[Forum93]

It's the question I want to ask my brother. He claims to respect data, then links me to the VAERS site. He believes its numbers – totally unvetted and inflated – represent the tip of a much bigger iceberg of adverse reactions. Evidence? None. But if he claims to be objective, then he has to accept some standard where the vaccine is the logical choice.

On the other hand, I asked the same question to my lady-friend (stupid term, I know, I just have no idea what to call her), my lizard-stripper connection who's a full-blown conspiracy theorist: "What data would you like to see to take the vaccine?". She flat out said, "Nothing! I know!". Discussion is useless.

Some can be convinced and eventually come around, others like your lady friend reptile stripper can't be reached, like talking to a brick wall.

My niece is another hard head. She's sure the vaccine will give her some terrible side effects and maybe even kill her, because she's read somewhere it's happened to some others, while ignoring serious side effects are extremely rare and the vast majority hospitalized with covid are unvaccinated. It's exasperating trying to reason with her.

 

[Lshap]

Youre a perfect example of why we cant just say "too bad for them, ill do my things". And why we should refrain from calling them crazies

I mean, you, fully vaccinated, are clearly bothered by this.

Thanks – I'd say I'm pretty good, if not "Perfect".

Seriously, you're missing the point here. The issue is data and facts, not people's feelings – I'm not "Bothered" and I didn't call my brother or that woman "Crazy". They're wrong about the vaccine; that doesn't mean our relationships have suffered (other than they can't join me at restaurants). And in the woman's case, she believes the hospital numbers are fake, the reported deaths are fake, and that there are microchips implanted in the vaccine. Really. She is a hardcore conspiracy theorist.

 

[Lshap]

No data will get them to reconsider. Reason being everything is fake and this is a massive international conspiracy which clearly involves every scientist, every doctor, every nurse, oh but Trump that bragged about pushing the vaccines in order to be released and often refers them as his vaccines, he's against vaccines.

They live in their own miserable bubble, full of conspiracy theories and paranoia, the amount of mental illness that will come from this cult will be something special

Yeah... that's exactly why I want to ask my brother what data he'll accept in order to take the vaccine. I'm calling his bluff – we both know it's not really about data. But at least he'll listen.

As for that woman, she sees this as a battle against authority, instead of a battle against a virus. I lost it a few weeks ago and let it fly – "You're in a cult!" "You're living in a fantasy world!", and "Your whole argument comes down to 'Don't tell me what to do!'" She said even worse things to me. It accomplished nothing. Shaming/insulting just makes people more entrenched in their positions. Now I'm just presenting info when it comes up, without selling it.

 

[dcyhabs]

Youre a perfect example of why we cant just say "too bad for them, ill do my things". And why we should refrain from calling them crazies

I mean, you, fully vaccinated, are clearly bothered by this.

There are lots of things where no one would or should question what you do. Go ahead and yell whatever you want in the street or at city hall but don't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. Do what makes you happy if it's not hurting anyone even if everyone else in the world thinks you're crazy, live it, enjoy it.

When what you are doing is quite literally killing people, maybe not at an individual level, but as a part of society, anti-vax is quite literally killing people, maybe you should stop telling people you're so right and talk to your doctor and see if there is anything you may not fully understand.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Thanks – I'd say I'm pretty good, if not "Perfect".

Seriously, you're missing the point here. The issue is data and facts, not people's feelings – I'm not "Bothered" and I didn't call my brother or that woman "Crazy". They're wrong about the vaccine; that doesn't mean our relationships have suffered (other than they can't join me at restaurants). And in the woman's case, she believes the hospital numbers are fake, the reported deaths are fake, and that there are microchips implanted in the vaccine. Really. She is a hardcore conspiracy theorist.

Actually, its not at all about facts and numbers, every body have access to their province numbers, every body, yet when you show them the numbers, theres no change of mind, they still dont believe it, they think its fake, and despite all the facts you show them, the needle is not moving, at all.

So if its all about data and cold hard facts, theyre about to get their first dose... Right?

 

[ECWHSWI]

When what you are doing is quite literally killing people, maybe not at an individual level, but as a part of society, anti-vax is quite literally killing people, maybe you should stop telling people you're so right and talk to your doctor and see if there is anything you may not fully understand.

1. Why are you using that logic to covid only ? No courage is my guess.

2. You clearly have no idea what i think, what I understand and what i Do, so why are you making this about me ? Cause outside your mantra you dont have much to say.

 

[Lshap]

Actually, its not at all about facts and numbers, every body have access to their province numbers, every body, yet when you show them the numbers, theres no change of mind, they still dont believe it, they think its fake, and despite all the facts you show them, the needle is not moving, at all.

So if its all about data and cold hard facts, theyre about to get their first dose... Right?

When the weather channel says it's -20C, we accept that data and dress warmly. There are no protesters who believe the government is manipulating the temperature.

When there's a water-advisory, we accept that data and boil our water. People don't accuse the government of using the downtime to inject microchips into the treatment facility.

When there's a global pandemic, suddenly there's a subset of people ignoring the data on hospital beds, healthcare, case numbers, and vaccines. Instead, it's melodrama, spins, alternate realities, excuses... anything to AVOID facts.

So yes, it IS about facts. The subset of the population who refuse to accept them is why healthcare in some cities is hanging by a thread.

 

[dcyhabs]

1. Why are you using that logic to covid only ? No courage is my guess.

2. You clearly have no idea what i think, what I understand and what i Do, so why are you making this about me ? Cause outside your mantra you dont have much to say.

1. Why do you make everything nasty and personal? Is it because you just write random bitter stuff?
2. I know nothing about you. If you’re not vaccinated talk to your doctor and see if he agrees with your decision. If you are, cheers.

 

[ECWHSWI]

When the weather channel says it's -20C, we accept that data and dress warmly. There are no protesters who believe the government is manipulating the temperature.

When there's a water-advisory, we accept that data and boil our water. People don't accuse the government of using the downtime to inject microchips into the treatment facility.

When there's a global pandemic, suddenly there's a subset of people ignoring the data on hospital beds, healthcare, case numbers, and vaccines. Instead, it's melodrama, spins, alternate realities, excuses... anything to AVOID facts.

So yes, it IS about facts. The subset of the population who refuse to accept them is why healthcare in some cities is hanging by a thread.

If that's how you see things, then I humbly suggest you stop talking to them about covid and vaccines. Your mind is set on what the problem and the solutions are. Their mind is set too. They will not budge and you will not either.

You're all wasting your time.

 

[ECWHSWI]

1. Why do you make everything nasty and personal? Is it because you just write random bitter stuff?
2. I know nothing about you. If you’re not vaccinated talk to your doctor and see if he agrees with your decision. If you are, cheers.

you know nothing about me but you know I'm bitter ? (I'm gonna start thinking you're a waflerdave account).

And I guess I was right about #2, outside your mantra, you have nothing to say.

 

[dcyhabs]

you know nothing about me but you know I'm bitter ? (I'm gonna start thinking you're a waflerdave account).

And I guess I was right about #2, outside your mantra, you have nothing to say.

I judge the tone of your posts, I don’t know you. I only have the one account and I’m normally just here for discussions of future hockey with no really good answer; I’m a pessimist so I don’t mind being wrong.

On this subject I don’t have much else to say. A drug trial this unbalanced would bd scrapped because it would be unethical to keep a control group. Most people who aren’t vaccinated aren’t informed and change their minds once they speak to someone with real knowledge. One or two unvaccinated people don’t matter, but the current million or so are dying a little too much for confort.

 

[Lshap]

If that's how you see things, then I humbly suggest you stop talking to them about covid and vaccines. Your mind is set on what the problem and the solutions are. Their mind is set too. They will not budge and you will not either.

You're all wasting your time.

The subject will still come up because it's current events, but yeah... you're probably right. I can't give an opinion equal weight when it ignores the vast majority of science, medicine, and numbers, and bases itself on outliers.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The subject will still come up because it's current events, but yeah... you're probably right. I can't give an opinion equal weight when it ignores the vast majority of science, medicine, and numbers, and bases itself on outliers.

Made it clear to everyone that thoses discussions are not welcomed at my house. Did not prevent anyone coming to our place on weekends. So far we're having great weekends (when I dont work obviously)

 

[Crusher117]

Anyone hear about loosening of restrictions being announced soon? Montreal is one of the few vaccinated city where indoor dancing is still not allowed.

Illegal underground parties with 0 measures have increased like crazy in the last week since the cold starting to creep in. I know about quite a few coming up in October.

If they don't allow vaxxed parties soon, they will have a shit storm hit as business owners no longer have government aid and can't make money yet while illegal parties are charging between 40 to 150$ making money au noir.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

For those who haven't been vaccinated...

... what data would you need to see in order to get the vaccine?

For a lot of people its not about data. I know people who seemed to have gotten that precious "we need to see the 10+ year side effects first" while they put nonsense in their body on the regular.

I personally don't get it, it's like putting a line in the stand just to be against the grain and think you're superior to everyone else and 'know something' others don't.

I've heard of a few people willing to lose their job over it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If you read again, I said both things.

If I can't enter Ste-Justine with my child because I'm not vaccinated, yes, I will take it. If not I will wait the longer possible.



I'm not scared. I'm just a waiting kind of guy. I didn't take H1N1 vaccine too and in the end of the day, I didn't needed it.



How can we know about middle/long term effects ? Nothing, until 5 years have passed. For short term, we already know, the risk is really low. Anyway, I'm not your typical complotist guy. It's more of a personal situation. Some people have wrong reasons to not take it, and it's on them, tho.

There are risks in taking the vaccine. But there’s a much greater risk to you in not taking it. Anyways good luck.

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Anyone hear about loosening of restrictions being announced soon? Montreal is one of the few vaccinated city where indoor dancing is still not allowed.

Illegal underground parties with 0 measures have increased like crazy in the last week since the cold starting to creep in. I know about quite a few coming up in October.

If they don't allow vaxxed parties soon, they will have a shit storm hit as business owners no longer have government aid and can't make money yet while illegal parties are charging between 40 to 150$ making money au noir.

This is the kind of thing I wish the Gov would have a damn spine about. Have major crackdowns on things like this. Extremely high fines + jail time. It's absolutely ridiculous that this is taking place. And this might be a bit unpopular, but deportation for non-Canadians (since can't deport Canadians that are reckless).

 

[mitchmagic]

Oh yeah there was a rave a couple of weeks ago that a lot of my 'friends' went to and there was an outbreak at the event. They were all surprised and remorseful that they went. What'd they do two weeks later?

Went to another rave.

It's why I still have such a limited bubble I allow myself to see because even people who I thought were more prudent are making some real asinine decisions.

 

[Kriss E]

Waiting for the vaccine to be approved by Health Canada. Waiting for the long term effects on people (still unknown to this day).

For the best for family and me, I stay home until this pandemic is done.

I love this wait for long term effects argument. If you don't have short term effects from small exposure, you aren't going to suddenly develop some long term ones a year, or two, or 5 down the line.
That's not how things work man.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I love this wait for long term effects argument. If you don't have short term effects from small exposure, you aren't going to suddenly develop some long term ones a year, or two, or 5 down the line.
That's not how things work man.

I guess scientists who take years ro study side effects of meds/vaccines are idiots then.

Whats next ? No need for studies on humans if it worked on the chimp/mouse it will work on humans.

 

[Treb]

I guess scientists who take years ro study side effects of meds/vaccines are idiots then.

Whats next ? No need for studies on humans if it worked on the chimp/mouse it will work on humans.

Name me on side effect from any vaccine that takes more than 1 year to show up.
The trials outcomes about adverse events are done and have been for a while.
There is a pretty big difference between chronic medication and vaccines.

The trials that were done followed the rules, they haven't cut corners.

 

[Treb]

Unrelated to last few posts, but still relevant to something argued earlier in the thread:

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Unrelated to last few posts, but still relevant to something argued earlier in the thread:

Not enough data…