Friedman: Could the Leafs target Seth Jones?

[ManofSteel55]

Nope. Haven't read the rest of the thread.

If we're flipping Marner it should be for a player like Vince Dunn.

Better hit, term and player.

They should flip Woll for Shesterkin too while you're at it. Maybe trade Domi's contract rights for Matthews.

 

[ITM]

They should flip Woll for Shesterkin too while you're at it. Maybe trade Domi's contract rights for Matthews.

Qualifying “better player” for our needs.

I like Dunn. He fits our needs. But he is nowhere near Marner in outright talent or production.

Marner would Seattle’s best player by a fair margin.

What reasonable Leafs fans are after is a maximized fit according to need, and absent that, if Marner walks and all we’re left with is $11M dollars to spend, the. We still win the offset.

 

[ITM]

Why would Seattle trade its #1 defender and best player locked in at nice contract for next 3 years for Mitch Marner?

He wasn’t the same player after his big contract. But he’s still a nigh 100 point producing forward which places him in rare company. And he would be by far Seattle’s most talented player were he to be traded there.

Fishbowl Toronto aside, the sample size favours Marner.

It just so happens Seattle has the room and in my humble opinion, would have its first bona fide star in Marner…who will succeed, but unlikely in Toronto.

Toronto is too comfortable for Marner. It’s a distraction. A focused Marner is a dangerous player. But it requires discomfort. Moving Marner from Toronto - I suspect - will bring out the best in him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Qualifying “better player” for our needs.

I like Dunn. He fits our needs. But he is nowhere near Marner in outright talent or production.

Marner would Seattle’s best player by a fair margin.

What reasonable Leafs fans are after is a maximized fit according to need, and absent that, if Marner walks and all we’re left with is $11M dollars to spend, the. We still win the offset.

Seattle wouldn't trade their #1D who is on a bargain contract for the forseeable future for a guy you guys are looking to dump because he is overpaid and doesn't bring it in the playoffs. You'll be lucky to get much of anything for him given his cap hit and UFA status a year from now. There's nothing reasonable about asking for a #1D for what is basically an overpaid rental that everyone knows you want to trade.

 

[Magic Man]

Jones (at 8M per for 6 years) + 2025 1st rd. pick (Leafs pick) for Mitch Marner (extended at 11.5M per for 8 years)

Pretty simple framework to build on. Jones with retention is a good target and the Leafs own 1st is an easy second piece.

 

[ITM]

Seattle wouldn't trade their #1D who is on a bargain contract for the forseeable future for a guy you guys are looking to dump because he is overpaid and doesn't bring it in the playoffs. You'll be lucky to get much of anything for him given his cap hit and UFA status a year from now. There's nothing reasonable about asking for a #1D for what is basically an overpaid rental that everyone knows you want to trade.

Of course there is, because Marner is a premier player.

Dispense with the idea that Toronto is hamstrung because of optics, because what has been speculated already is that teams - plural - are interested. One reporter with a stellar reputation believes the number will greatly exceed a list put forth by Marner IF he (and his agent) agree.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Panarin, Matthews and Pastrnak are the only players who have scored more than Marner in the last five years.

He's not overpaid. He's underperforming in the playoffs certainly, but you can say the same about Tavares and to an extent Matthews himself. The argument is there that it's a problem with composition and support. Marner is not THE reason Toronto hasn't advanced past the first round with regularity.

What is germane in any speculation is this: Marner is simply the easiest of the four to move given his impending contract status, age, production, etc.

The expectation in Toronto prior to Nylander's contract was that his worth in trade talks started with a number one defenseman in return. I prefer Nylander (I'm on record on the Leafs boards) to Marner, but I don't look at Marner the player with diminished value so much as misplaced value in Toronto.

And if you were familiar with the player's past, his value as a point-producer, and avoided recency bias for the plague it is, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Marner for Dunn.

And as for overpaid rental, again, whether its just a general unfamiliarity with how these things work, if Marner and his agent get that list of teams and it's narrowed down, the idea is to sign with that team; All of the details will be worked out. Marner's valuation is a known quantity and there are clubs out there who have the space.

He's not going to be traded as a rental.

And as for wanting to trade Marner, again, context: If Toronto wasn't bound by cap, if we could spend our way to a properly structured defence and any number of reasonable ifs, its unlikely Mitch Marner would be bandied about in rumour mills.

There's Toronto's structural needs, but then there's the need for franchises across the league to obtain one of the top ten best point producing players in the league, playoffs warts and all.

 

[AcerComputer]

Why would McDavid want to go to Toronto?

If McDavid leaves Edmonton, it'll be to a team with Norris caliber defender, and a Vezina caliber goalie.

Because it's his hometown and he was devastated when the Leafs didn't win the lottery to draft him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Of course there is, because Marner is a premier player.

Dispense with the idea that Toronto is hamstrung because of optics, because what has been speculated already is that teams - plural - are interested. One reporter with a stellar reputation believes the number will greatly exceed a list put forth by Marner IF he (and his agent) agree.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Panarin, Matthews and Pastrnak are the only players who have scored more than Marner in the last five years.

He's not overpaid. He's underperforming in the playoffs certainly, but you can say the same about Tavares and to an extent Matthews himself. The argument is there that it's a problem with composition and support. Marner is not THE reason Toronto hasn't advanced past the first round with regularity.

What is germane in any speculation is this: Marner is simply the easiest of the four to move given his impending contract status, age, production, etc.

The expectation in Toronto prior to Nylander's contract was that his worth in trade talks started with a number one defenseman in return. I prefer Nylander (I'm on record on the Leafs boards) to Marner, but I don't look at Marner the player with diminished value so much as misplaced value in Toronto.

And if you were familiar with the player's past, his value as a point-producer, and avoided recency bias for the plague it is, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Marner for Dunn.

And as for overpaid rental, again, whether its just a general unfamiliarity with how these things work, if Marner and his agent get that list of teams and it's narrowed down, the idea is to sign with that team; All of the details will be worked out. Marner's valuation is a known quantity and there are clubs out there who have the space.

He's not going to be traded as a rental.

And as for wanting to trade Marner, again, context: If Toronto wasn't bound by cap, if we could spend our way to a properly structured defence and any number of reasonable ifs, its unlikely Mitch Marner would be bandied about in rumour mills.

There's Toronto's structural needs, but then there's the need for franchises across the league to obtain one of the top ten best point producing players in the league, playoffs warts and all.

It isn't optics. It's finances.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Jones (at 8M per for 6 years) + 2025 1st rd. pick (Leafs pick) for Mitch Marner (extended at 11.5M per for 8 years)

Pretty simple framework to build on. Jones with retention is a good target and the Leafs own 1st is an easy second piece.

No thanks sir

 

[ITM]

It isn't optics. It's finances.

It's not finances in isolation, its chemistry as well.

Marner and Tavares both come up in a year. Toronto could simply wait it out, wait until Tavares contracts come off the book and offer Nylander's term and hit to Marner with another $11M to address needs on D.

And by that time, the club should have another two or three (i.e. Niemela, Minten, Cowen) ELCs kicking in.

The club knows that even in moving Marner, it's unlikely Tavares moves, and so only a portion of the problem is solved.

Toronto's next real window to take a run, isn't next year with a moved Marner. It's in two years when Tavares' albatross is gone.

 

[ManofSteel55]

It's not finances in isolation, its chemistry as well.

Marner and Tavares both come up in a year. Toronto could simply wait it out, wait until Tavares contracts come off the book and offer Nylander's term and hit to Marner with another $11M to address needs on D.

And by that time, the club should have another two or three (i.e. Niemela, Minten, Cowen) ELCs kicking in.

The club knows that even in moving Marner, it's unlikely Tavares moves, and so only a portion of the problem is solved.

Toronto's next real window to take a run, isn't next year with a moved Marner. It's in two years when Tavares' albatross is gone.

No, it's finances. It's a huge contract and a NTC. That essentially eliminates any negotiating power the Leafs have.

 

[ITM]

No, it's finances. It's a huge contract and a NTC. That essentially eliminates any negotiating power the Leafs have.

Hardly eliminates negotiating power and it is about chemistry.

Toronto would be within their right to inform Marner's camp that he'll sit in a contract year.

Once that reality sets in, a list will be offered.

When the list is offered, negotiations will begin with the club who will sign him to his asking price.

The compromised negotiating power may be in the piece they want vs the piece(s) they're able to get. But there will be competition if that's the road Toronto chooses to go down.

And the reason that road would be travelled down is because of chemistry; Marner simply doesn't fit in Toronto. But he is - and his agent will remind - a top ten forward in the league according to production.

 

[Mr Positive]

Hardly eliminates negotiating power and it is about chemistry.

Toronto would be within their right to inform Marner's camp that he'll sit in a contract year.

Once that reality sets in, a list will be offered.

When the list is offered, negotiations will begin with the club who will sign him to his asking price.

The compromised negotiating power may be in the piece they want vs the piece(s) they're able to get. But there will be competition if that's the road Toronto chooses to go down.

And the reason that road would be travelled down is because of chemistry; Marner simply doesn't fit in Toronto. But he is - and his agent will remind - a top ten forward in the league according to production.

A lot of people are talking about sitting Marner to force him to waive his NMC. Utterly ridiculous. When has this ever happened?

 

[John Mandalorian]

His contract has so much term.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Hire Gallant and find a way to ship out Tavares.

 

[sxvnert]

His contract has so much term.

and hes massively overrated. Hawks can keep him until they really need the cap space.

 

[MK9]

Said somewhere else that he was 'tired of losing'. If that's the case, he's probably gonna be a bit pissed when it comes to the post season if he gets traded to Toronto.

 

[John Mandalorian]

and hes massively overrated. Hawks can keep him until they really need the cap space.

Perhaps. But with so much term, Toronto isn’t accomplishing much by doing this. The one caveat is if Jones flips a switch. But that’s a big risk with so much term.

I’ve been saying Marner for Gibson makes some sense.

 

[Drumman44]

Perhaps. But with so much term, Toronto isn’t accomplishing much by doing this. The one caveat is if Jones flips a switch. But that’s a big risk with so much term.

I’ve been saying Marner for Gibson makes some sense.

Gibson is an even bigger reclamation project than Jones

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lol the rumors are starting early this year.

Not really. Last year Nylander's contract was pending, so the rumors were about him.

 

[13pacheco31]

Ah... well then.

Doesn't Jones also have no trade protection? Is he really going to want to come here? I have my doubts, even though he did live here and is familiar with TO from when his dad was on the Raps.

Also, the on-ice fit I'm even less sure of, and that contract could choke a horse.

As far as waiving is no trade clause, I don't see why he would be opposed to playing here. I'm pretty sure he lived in Toronto for a couple years when his dad played for the raptors

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Not really. Last year Nylander's contract was pending, so the rumors were about him.

Very different when he's your own player though. This is just Toronto media trying to keep Toronto fans engaged right now.

 

[Fatass]

Marner (with retention) for Seth Jones works for both clubs. Fair trade.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Gibson is an even bigger reclamation project than Jones

Less term and lower salary.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Marner (with retention) for Seth Jones works for both clubs. Fair trade.

Don’t need retention if there would ever be a trade