OT: Could Bobby Orr still dominate in the league today?

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Another question i find interesting is would a team of 5 orr's beat a team of 5 gretzky's... or 5 howe's...

Who is the games most complete player of all time if you could clone just one single player and go head to head.

My money is on a team of orrs being the best ever

 

[kytem2]

Another question i find interesting is would a team of 5 orr's beat a team of 5 gretzky's... or 5 howe's...

Who is the games most complete player of all time if you could clone just one single player and go head to head.

My money is on a team of orrs being the best ever

What about 5 Coffeys ?

 

[Strange Universe]

Another question i find interesting is would a team of 5 orr's beat a team of 5 gretzky's... or 5 howe's...

Who is the games most complete player of all time if you could clone just one single player and go head to head.

My money is on a team of orrs being the best ever

For me this is a little easier and I will say Orr because he was complete in every aspect of the game.
He could play fantastic D and he could kill penalties, play the power play and was a natural forward if he wanted to be one as we all witnessed his capabilities up front with his end to end rushes.
The other two would have a tough time on D and this gives Bobby a huge edge in my book.
Did I mention that Bobby Orr is my idol....

 

[What The Puck]

Another question i find interesting is would a team of 5 orr's beat a team of 5 gretzky's... or 5 howe's...

Who is the games most complete player of all time if you could clone just one single player and go head to head.

My money is on a team of orrs being the best ever

Somebody load up NHL15 and get back to us.

 

[Strange Universe]

What about 5 Coffeys ?

Too much caffeine.

 

[bobbyorr04]

What about 5 Coffeys ?

Is that with one ORR two sugars?

 

[kytem2]

Paul Coffey was very close to being just as good as Bobby Orr. Just look at the top 10 in this list.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-points-in-one-season-by-nhl-defensemen.html

 

[PIMsCup]

I've heard this clone team thought experiment before. I think a team of five Lemeiux's would win this contest.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Thanks for posting. Oh man, why'd the Bs give up on MacLeish & Leach?

Not to mention Bernie Parent.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Paul Coffey was very close to being just as good as Bobby Orr. Just look at the top 10 in this list.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-points-in-one-season-by-nhl-defensemen.html

coffey had a more limited overall game than orr but in terms of pure offensive talent coffey probably ranks a close second among all time dmen.

of course coffey like orr played in an era where coaches didn't know how to defend against this type of player. both coffey and orr would be shut down by the trap system and would have to adjust their style of play if they were around today.

id argue that some of todays dmen skate better/shoot harder than eiher orr or coffey did just due to improvements in equipment/training but like orr, I think coffey would have adjusted to the new equipment better training.

definitely a great talent but the single biggest disappointment to me of any player to ever wear our uniform. it made me sick when we picked coffey up at the end of his career {and considering we also had kovalenko here and mcsorely that's saying something to be number 1 on my hate list}

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Not to mention Bernie Parent.

ken Dryden was our property origionally too...

can you imagine a goalie tandem of Dryden/parent with that orr/Esposito team in front of it?

 

[kytem2]

Not to mention Bernie Parent.

And Ken Dryden. Expansion happened, and players had to move on.

 

[kytem2]

it made me sick when we picked coffey up at the end of his career {and considering we also had kovalenko here and mcsorely that's saying something to be number 1 on my hate list}

Coffey was 39, in his 21st season when he played with the Bruins.
Phil Esposito was considered old at 33 when he was traded away, just to keep things in perspective.

Coffey is just a step down from Orr as the most offensively talented defenseman ever to play. There is no way that either would be putting up 100 point seasons in this era.

I was at the Bruin / Sen game on Thursday, and saw Karlsson make several astounding plays in the offensive zone, and he got nothing out of it because all they resulted in was a teammate receiving a pass only to be met by "waves" and "layers" of Bruins being ready to attack that player. There was no give and go opportunity available.

Coffey had Gretzky, Orr had Esposito, both Gretzky and Esposito were required in order for these crazy point totals to be put up.

 

[Fenway]

And Ken Dryden. Expansion happened, and players had to move on.

I remember this classic game as a youngster. Of note is who the Montreal goalie was that night in 1968 - Tony Esposito.

 

[Strange Universe]

Coffey was 39, in his 21st season when he played with the Bruins.
Phil Esposito was considered old at 33 when he was traded away, just to keep things in perspective.

Coffey is just a step down from Orr as the most offensively talented defenseman ever to play. There is no way that either would be putting up 100 point seasons in this era.

I was at the Bruin / Sen game on Thursday, and saw Karlsson make several astounding plays in the offensive zone, and he got nothing out of it because all they resulted in was a teammate receiving a pass only to be met by "waves" and "layers" of Bruins being ready to attack that player. There was no give and go opportunity available.

Coffey had Gretzky, Orr had Esposito, both Gretzky and Esposito were required in order for these crazy point totals to be put up.

Espo had Orr.
Any player from that era will tell you that Orr made each and everyone of those players that much better just because how he was able to control the game and set up plays that only he could make.
The players new Orr's abilities and pounced on every opportunity he would set them up with,
BTW, I saw the game as well and let me tell you that Karlsson is an exceptional D man with many natural abilities but Orr had and would still have today the upper hand all D men in the league today including Karlsson and Orr would still be a 100 pt D man no ifs or butts.

As far as Coffey goes he was also a brilliant skater and play maker but his overall abilities on ice were still not at the same peak of Orr's but Coffey was a beautiful player to watch as well.
An extremely smart D man that knew how to use all his resources (team players)

 

[Habs killer]

coffey had a more limited overall game than orr but in terms of pure offensive talent coffey probably ranks a close second among all time dmen.

of course coffey like orr played in an era where coaches didn't know how to defend against this type of player. both coffey and orr would be shut down by the trap system and would have to adjust their style of play if they were around today.

id argue that some of todays dmen skate better/shoot harder than eiher orr or coffey did just due to improvements in equipment/training but like orr, I think coffey would have adjusted to the new equipment better training.

definitely a great talent but the single biggest disappointment to me of any player to ever wear our uniform. it made me sick when we picked coffey up at the end of his career {and considering we also had kovalenko here and mcsorely that's saying something to be number 1 on my hate list}

I just looked at coffey's number, had multiple 40+ goal seasons in the 80's, thats insane. didnt gretzky score 90 something. I know goalies had brown burlap koho pads, seemed players scored with ease 30+ft out with boomers all the time. not diminishing the skill, those oiler teams were stacked. must have been like playing AHL caliber teams during those early 80's for the oilers going up against certain opposition.

 

[jgatie]

I just looked at coffey's number, had multiple 40+ goal seasons in the 80's, thats insane. didnt gretzky score 90 something. I know goalies had brown burlap koho pads, seemed players scored with ease 30+ft out with boomers all the time. not diminishing the skill, those oiler teams were stacked. must have been like playing AHL caliber teams during those early 80's for the oilers going up against certain opposition.

Coffey made Karlsson look like a defensive stalwart. John Muckler called Coffey "a defensive liability" and Muckler was Coffey's coach at the time. I used to say that Coffey was a great skater, but only going forwards.

 

[Strange Universe]

Watch Karlssons two goals against the Scabs (5-2 Win OTtawa Yeah!!) tonight and this would be what Orr would be doing on a more consistent rate.
I saw the high lites knowing Erik had scored two goals because I do not watch the scabs unless they are playing Boston.
I just feel better emotionally when I do not watch the habs.
That display of scoring by Karlsson was a thing of beauty......
So beautiful to watch especially against the Habs.

 

[jgatie]

Watch Karlssons two goals against the Scabs (5-2 Win OTtawa Yeah!!) tonight and this would be what Orr would be doing on a more consistent rate.
I saw the high lites knowing Erik had scored two goals because I do not watch the scabs unless they are playing Boston.
I just feel better emotionally when I do not watch the habs.
That display of scoring by Karlsson was a thing of beauty......
So beautiful to watch especially against the Habs.

Except Erik Karlsson is horrible on defense, and Orr could play defense better than 99% of the "defensive" defensemen of his era. Orr didn't get to be #2 on the all time +/- (in half the games as the #1) just because he could score. Can you imagine anyone going an entire playoffs, 1st round to last, playing 30+ minutes a game, and never getting a minus!? Unimaginable today, but Orr did exactly that in '72.

 

[nmbr_24]

Discuss.





Yes, this thread is pointless

He was quite simply the best player I have ever seen. He would have had many benefits today that he didn't have then. He would dominate and he would possibly have been able to have a longer career.

I have never seen such an elusive skater, there have been great skaters since Orr but there was something about him that remains unmatched by anyone to date. There isn't even anyone to compare him to today. He was something else to watch on a regular basis. He also probably had the greatest hockey mind along with Gretzky but Orr had physical tools that Gretzky didn't. He would be able to dominate this league.

 

[DKH]

I can't wait till the 'who is better Connor McDavid or Wayne Gretzky' posts in 10 years followed up in 40 If Connor McDavid could play in 2055

 

[DKH]

He was quite simply the best player I have ever seen. He would have had many benefits today that he didn't have then. He would dominate and he would possibly have been able to have a longer career.

I have never seen such an elusive skater, there have been great skaters since Orr but there was something about him that remains unmatched by anyone to date. There isn't even anyone to compare him to today. He was something else to watch on a regular basis. He also probably had the greatest hockey mind along with Gretzky but Orr had physical tools that Gretzky didn't. He would be able to dominate this league.

Gretzky was amazing but as someone who saw both Wayne and Orr's entire careers- and Gretzky pretty much every game he played in Boston live from the front row thanks to mommy and daddy - not even an argument. Orr was so superior.

But in fairness if I was 40 or younger and never saw Orr as he was playing his career I'd think more along the lines that Gretzky had to be as good or better or maybe Lemieux or even Messier for a time

 

[Number8]

Gretzky was amazing but as someone who saw both Wayne and Orr's entire careers- and Gretzky pretty much every game he played in Boston live from the front row thanks to mommy and daddy - not even an argument. Orr was so superior.

But in fairness if I was 40 or younger and never saw Orr as he was playing his career I'd think more along the lines that Gretzky had to be as good or better or maybe Lemieux or even Messier for a time

I'm with you. As a young boy my family moved to US from England in 1970 so I didn't see Orr's early days (you can't imagine how hard it was to find a decent stream in 1969 ). However, I saw everything from that point on.

People who so haphazardly say "yeah, he was skating against lesser players" can't be criticized for thinking that way. They just didn't have the opportunity to see Orr play. If they did, they wouldn't make that argument.

Simply put, he was extraordinary in every sense of the word. I just wish we'd seen him play longer and on healthy knees.

There is a reason he is considered one of, if not the, best players of all time. And it's not because the competition was somehow lacking.

 

[Pie O My]

all i'm getting out of this thread is that young people sukk. Would he dominate...pffft! please.

He was washed up 3 years before Bourque came in the league. Had he had even the slightest luck with those gimpy knees he would have played right alongside him for a few years. Bourque was his (granted this is a small stretch) contemporary. did RB dominate for 20 years? yes. did he play into the 21st century and dominate even in his last year? yes. Would Orr dominate now? Not only would he dominate but you green behind the ears, "hockey was invented the year i started watching" twerps would be staring blankly at your phones, mouths agape, wondering what just happened.

 

[Strange Universe]

Except Erik Karlsson is horrible on defense, and Orr could play defense better than 99% of the "defensive" defensemen of his era. Orr didn't get to be #2 on the all time +/- (in half the games as the #1) just because he could score. Can you imagine anyone going an entire playoffs, 1st round to last, playing 30+ minutes a game, and never getting a minus!? Unimaginable today, but Orr did exactly that in '72.

I made this point as well in my other threads in reference to Orr's overall play that Karlsson D is weaker than Orr on Defense.
Orr was simply extraordinary amazing in every facet of the game.
I stated last night two goals because there are posters here that think that Orr would be stifled in his play today.

However, Orr would have adjusted and played on a slightly different level where he would have combined all in natural talent and abilities and still be as creative as ever and still rack up 100+ points a year.