Value of: Cost of a Marcus Pettersson type to NJD? (provide examples of guys)

[Forge]

Okay then the Penguins aren't going to trade Pettersson to you.

The point is that the Penguins aren't going to trade Pettersson in the division without a massive overpayment.

I don't believe as a blanket statement. There are certain teams that I think likely won't work often together (devils / rangers, Calgary / Edmonton), but I don't know that Pens / Devils are one of them. Fitz clearly hasn't had an issue with trading inside the division (including Pitt previously) and Dubas hasn't shown a predisposition to avoiding trades within the division as far as I am aware (and obviously just moved Guentzel to the Hurricanes)

IF the trade makes sense for both sides, and the Devils were to have the best offer, I don't think there's much more to it than that.

 

[molon labe]

Yes, John Marino has struggled this year. Hence why I think NJD should be trying to upgrade his partner to get him a defensively minded vet to be paired with again so he can get back to his previous success/role, instead of covering for kids making rookie mistakes.


My hope would be he'd be an undervalued asset (because he's an LD without a big name factor and low point totals) that NJD can target and get on somewhat of a bargain trade/contract. But I think he's worth a TON, and would fit perfect.

Pettersson is very under the radar for flashy/fancy names in the household but I'm pretty sure every professional front office has a bead on that guy.

If he somehow survives the Summer here and is with us next season - there will be plenty of talk there. I think for that reason Dubas should work the phones on him this Summer where a gaining team can get a solid contract on him before any sort of hype builds and he's both hard to trade and hard to retain. Get a solid deal in place for both sides.

Though then again - next Summer's FA class is a doozie.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, John Marino has struggled this year. Hence why I think NJD should be trying to upgrade his partner to get him a defensively minded vet to be paired with again so he can get back to his previous success/role, instead of covering for kids making rookie mistakes.

I don't think Pettersson in any viewings of the Penguins covers up Marino's flaws.

He doesn't cover up the offensive limitations of Marino.

He similarly is not a great net front defenseman or below the circles guy.

He's a skinny player who easily gets worked physically.

Marino and Pettersson are actually very similar players with the same limitations which is why the Penguins moved on from Marino.

I would definitely not recommend NJ targetting him.

 

[dgibb10]

I don't believe as a blanket statement. There are certain teams that I think likely won't work often together (devils / rangers, Calgary / Edmonton), but I don't know that Pens / Devils are one of them. Fitz clearly hasn't had an issue with trading inside the division (including Pitt previously) and Dubas hasn't shown a predisposition to avoiding trades within the division as far as I am aware (and obviously just moved Guentzel to the Hurricanes)

IF the trade makes sense for both sides, and the Devils were to have the best offer, I don't think there's much more to it than that.

Fitzgerald also likely still has some ties to the Pitt organization from his 8 years working for them (although who knows how much has changed with Dubas)

Fitz was the Assistant GM for the Pens when they drafted Pettersson.

 

[Forge]

He's under contract for another year, so, depends what you mean there.

The good/great defenders with term are usually not remotely close to available.

Just gives an idea of value. Rental market is fairly static and often capped, if we are being honest. Doesn't change much on "high end" pieces being moved, it's usually the amount of fluff that's included. He's probably not going to return Mercer, or #10 overall, for example.

The trade probably looks closer to Noah Hanafin's than it does some crazy return.

 

[molon labe]

Just gives an idea of value. Rental market is fairly static and often capped, if we are being honest. Doesn't change much on "high end" pieces being moved, it's usually the amount of fluff that's included. He's probably not going to return Mercer, or #10 overall, for example.

The trade probably looks closer to Noah Hanafin's than it does some crazy return.

A first is not unreasonable for him because he's only making 4M. It's not just that he's a really good defender who's shown he can anchor high-danger defense partners - it's that he brings a lot for a cheap contract hit. Yeah it's only 1 season but it's still the whole season.

Beyond that? I don't pretend that he's supposed to return several firsts or a ton of high end pieces. I think a solid return is necessary but nothing extraordinary.

I don't even share the whole intra-division thing since he only has 1 more year. If he was on term right now I'd probably not even entertain trading him.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I’d rather trade 10th OA than Casey. But I wouldn’t do that either for one year of Pettersson

Fair. I think

Petts-Nemec
Siegenthaler-Hamilton
Hughes-Marino

Would be sick but also understand NJ rather giving up picks.

 

[Forge]

A first is not unreasonable for him because he's only making 4M. It's not just that he's a really good defender who's shown he can anchor high-danger defense partners - it's that he brings a lot for a cheap contract hit. Yeah it's only 1 season but it's still the whole season.

Beyond that? I don't pretend that he's supposed to return several firsts or a ton of high end pieces. I think a solid return is necessary but nothing extraordinary.

I don't even share the whole intra-division thing since he only has 1 more year. If he was on term right now I'd probably not even entertain trading him.

I think a first would definitely be on the table. Don't think it's a 24 first from the Devils given where they are drafting, but 25 could definitely be on the table. Shouldn't be a major issue for the Pens unless they get a predraft offer on him from elsewhere; otherwise a deadline move would only include 25 picks or later anyway.

 

[dgibb10]

I don't think Pettersson in any viewings of the Penguins covers up Marino's flaws.

He doesn't cover up the offensive limitations of Marino.

He similarly is not a great net front defenseman or below the circles guy.

He's a skinny player who easily gets worked physically.

Marino and Pettersson are actually very similar players with the same limitations which is why the Penguins moved on from Marino.

I would definitely not recommend NJ targetting him.

From 2019-2022 Pettersson and Marino played 1500+ minutes together.

Over that time frame, they ranked 12th and 23rd respectively among dmen in terms of fewest xGoals/60 allowed.

Sounds absolutely perfect for a shutdown pair to protect leads with.

 

[Zbynek]

Pettersson likely has little value.

He's for some reason anoited as this amazing defenseman by Penguins fans because of charts, but anyone that has paid attention he had a pretty medicore finish.

He's a decent # 3, probably ideally a # 4, and his offensive abilities have improved. He's probably worth a 2nd and a decent prospect. He'll probably get under 6 million in UFA.

Lol wtf? He had a couple of rough games in the final stretch (which you can count on your hands) but is still, by leaps and bounds, the best actual defenseman for the Pens. He's a top-2 LD and he will get more than 6 mil for sure with term. Go check the UFAs for LD next summer, it's slim pickings. He will be one of the best d-men on the market at the TDL.

Also I don't read the charts, I watch the games. Dude is a defensive d-man stud.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Thankfully NJDs need is at LD rather than RD, so there is a bit more of a surplus there.

Well I don't know, there are more RD's availabe in the UFA market than LD's. For instance, DeMelo would be a perfect target if he was a LD. Pesce is another interesting name, as are Montour, Roy and Walker. Not to mention the trade market.

Sometimes I've been thinking that it is a myth that it's harder to find a right handed defensemen than left handed defensemen.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Casey’s stock and development has only continued to climb since he was drafted. He’s also more of a sure thing and closer to being NHL ready than whatever 18 year old they would take at 10th OA. It’s not like Casey has a super low ceiling either. 10th OA is a high pick, but they’re still outside the “cream of the crop” range.

As I said earlier though, rather not do either. But I’d rather trade 10th OA for immediate help than Casey.

I agree that he is closer to being NHL ready than whoever they might select this year. But other than that, Casey doesn't have similar value than the 10th OA pick. If there was a re-draft, Casey wouldn't be a top 10 or even top 15 pick.

 

[dgibb10]

Well I don't know, there are more RD's availabe in the UFA market than LD's. For instance, DeMelo would be a perfect target if he was a LD. Pesce is another interesting name, as are Montour, Roy and Walker. Not to mention the trade market.

Sometimes I've been thinking that it is a myth that it's harder to find a right handed defensemen than left handed defensemen.

I'd be open to a Marino swap for an LD and then bring in an RD if there is better value to be had.

The current free agency market favours righties, but if you look at the rosters, a LOT more teams need righties.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I'd be open to a Marino swap for an LD and then bring in an RD if there is better value to be had.

The current free agency market favours righties, but if you look at the rosters, a LOT more teams need righties.

Marino to the Sabres (or somewhere else) and Pettersson and DeMelo to the Devils. Yeah, not going to happen, but that would be the ideal outcome.

If I'm the Devils, I probably target Hague out of Vegas for Bahl or Holtz over Zadorov.

Hughes, Hague, Siegs is a nice LHD to compliment Hamilton Marino Nemec.

If Hague is available, he would be a very interesting option for the Devils.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I agree that he is closer to being NHL ready than whoever they might select this year. But other than that, Casey doesn't have similar value than the 10th OA pick. If there was an re-draft, Casey wouldn't be a top 10 or even top 15 pick.

Probably not, but the team has had enough lottery scratch offs. Given where the team is at, I think Casey holds more value as a hopefully soon to be rostered player than the 10th OA. Sure, Mikko Rantanen was taken 10th overall in the deepest draft of all time. Evan Bouchard and Owen Tippet at 10th as well. But so were Tyson Jost, Nick Ritchie, Podkolzin, and Tyler Boucher. Maybe Casey only has an NHL impact similar to the latter players there, or even worse. But I think right now he has a good chance of not only playing some NHL games, but being a bonafide NHLer with top 4 potential.

I haven’t followed much about the draft this season because 1.) I was initially expecting the Devils to make the playoffs and 2.) eventually started assuming they’re trading the pick anyway. But I haven’t got the sense that this is viewed as a super deep draft or anything.

 

[Gurglesons]

From 2019-2022 Pettersson and Marino played 1500+ minutes together.

Over that time frame, they ranked 12th and 23rd respectively among dmen in terms of fewest xGoals/60 allowed.

Sounds absolutely perfect for a shutdown pair to protect leads with.

xGoals is an absolutely flawed statistic especially with the Penguins.

Just trust me on this one. Pettersson and Marino isn't a shutdown pair that you want in crucial playoff games.

They've got no weight and will be absolutely abused by the teams like Florida, NYR, etc that you'd be going up against.

 

[Smitty426]

Besides Skjei I'd look at Zadorov, Dillon and Grzelcyk as clear upgrades on the left side. They'll also need a RHD for at least the short term, I'd look at Walker, Roy if giving term or Dumba or Myers on a 1 year.

Fans love to shit on Bahl, he's a good enough bottom pairing guy, he was just forced to play too many minutes. He'll be fine if they need to use him there.

Skjej is a step above those other two
Zads I like the heavy part but this team needs topish D
Why do we need R D? Dougie, Marino and Nemec not working for you?
Bahl is nothing if he doesn't use the size.
I'd move Bahl and add Zads and Skjej.
I like Hattaka better than Bahl honestly

Zadorov might be expensive, but he's better than Smith.

Why not potentially add Trenin and Zadorov ?

The Devils don't really have someone on the backend you really gotta watch out for. Zadorov in 53 gamed with Vancouver would be 2nd on the devils d for hits. He's a solid option and I can't imagine people are willing to give him a long-term contract, so 1, maybe 2 years is something that could potentially be done with him.

If he's like 4 mill for 4 years, then the Devils should pass, but if he's 1, or 2 years at 3...

I'm ok with both I just think our D is not ready to compete and we need top guys. Zads has a place but does he put us over, no way. Does Skjej, more so. I think Zads is preparing to get a bag and it might not be as heavy as he would like

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I’d rather trade 10th OA than Casey. But I wouldn’t do that either for one year of Pettersson

LOL!

 

[Extra Texture]

I have a hunch if Dubas trades Pettersson he will get absolutely fleeced

That's what people said about Guentzel too

 

[My3Sons]

I watched Pettersson and Marino for a long time.

I guess we can pretend Devils fans knew more about Marino then me. Kinda funny how he's gonna through exactly what I predicted.

Except he didn't go through what you predicted. Your take was that he gets beaten up and bullied in the run of play. His struggles this season had nothing to do with that. He made bone headed errors which he didn't the prior season. It wasn't that he was unwilling to engage or getting pushed around and shying away. I think he was just asked to do too much and had to go from being a second pair guy playing middle six competition to a top line guy playing against top six competition. He also had no safety net. If he struggled for any amount of time plan B was a teenage rookie who only turned 20 later in the season. I know you have it in for him but you are the only one who sees it that way. Beyond that he managed to fool everyone for the entire prior year? He's a competent middle pairing defender. A few overly exuberant fans don't represent a hive. mind.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Skjej is a step above those other two
Zads I like the heavy part but this team needs topish D
Why do we need R D? Dougie, Marino and Nemec not working for you?
Bahl is nothing if he doesn't use the size.
I'd move Bahl and add Zads and Skjej.
I like Hattaka better than Bahl honestly

Devils don't necessarily need a RD but if Hamilton reaggravates his injury it's nice to have an NHL level replacement for him instead of overusing Marino and Nemec again. Basically I'd look for cheap and a 1 year deal.
Bahl is a 3rd pairing guy that should play limited minutes, he's better than a lot of people think he is, but he's not good enough that I'd worry about losing him. Hattaka isn't better than he is though, he played well in limited viewings but that's not a full season plus Bahl is super healthy all the time.

 

[dgibb10]

Devils don't necessarily need a RD but if Hamilton reaggravates his injury it's nice to have an NHL level replacement for him instead of overusing Marino and Nemec again. Basically I'd look for cheap and a 1 year deal.
Bahl is a 3rd pairing guy that should play limited minutes, he's better than a lot of people think he is, but he's not good enough that I'd worry about losing him. Hattaka isn't better than he is though, he played well in limited viewings but that's not a full season plus Bahl is super healthy all the time.

My thought process would be to have a cheap LHD as our 7D (it can be bahl). Casey imo would be the hamilton injury replacement if he doesn't spend another year in college. Have him in the AHL and if hamilton or nemec gets injured put him in as an OFD in their place.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

My thought process would be to have a cheap LHD as our 7D (it can be bahl). Casey imo would be the hamilton injury replacement if he doesn't spend another year in college. Have him in the AHL and if hamilton or nemec gets injured put him in as an OFD in their place.

Casey isn't good enough to take Hamilton's place yet. He could get there but he's not there yet.

 

[dgibb10]

Casey isn't good enough to take Hamilton's place yet. He could get there but he's not there yet.

Oh certainly not. But neither would a random 2 million dollar 1 year UFA RD. Best case we can find for that money would be Colin Miller back (which I wouldn't be opposed to).

My thought process is Casey is a better option than any of our LD prospects, and so use the 7D (non waiver exempt) spot on a lefty.

Then you have a guy to be a replacement on the left, and casey to be an injury replacement on the right