So if the Leafs manage to win tonight, is it because shots don't matter or Reimer stood on his head?
Any objective observer watching this game would say the difference has been Reimer. You can't argue the Leafs have any business leading this game.
It's not even the number of saves, it's the type of saves. Unreal. Not even sure who our number 1 is and don't care as long as they keep playing like this
Good point. This season they have the 6th best PK (0.3 % behind 4th) and 5th best power play. So the year they regularly outshot people and lost (going against the odds of Corsi) they had lousy special teams. This season being 7-4-0 despite being outshot regularly (going against Corsi) they have great special teams. Coincidence?
I thought the discussion was about how Leafs were getting their goals (shot differential and SH%), not about how they were letting them in?
Assuming the former, looked like good passing plays to me. The relatively lower number of shots that were taken looked to be very high percentage shots to me.
I didn't see any luck in the the Leafs' scoring in this game.
I don't mean to be an ******* but maybe you need to find out what Corsi is before you come into a thread about it? When people talk about possessions stats, they're usually talking about ES play. The Leafs' special teams have nothing to do with Corsi.
So yeah, they're 7-4-0 despite being outshot partially because they have great special teams. But those alone aren't enough when you're doing as badly in possession as the Leafs are.
And nothing will be determined one way or another 15 or even 20 games in. The notion that a game against the Penguins proves that possession stats are wrong, or that a game against somebody else proves that they are right, is ridiculous. Get to a 40-50 game mark and then maybe we can talk but ideally we'll be having this discussion at the 82 game mark.
I do understand what Corsi is but special teams are a crucial part of the game, obviously it has nothing to do with Corsi but it does have to do with the games itself. Goaltending and special teams can single handily win you games. That was my point. They can also cost you games. That's why I don't agree with Corsi.I don't mean to be an ******* but maybe you need to find out what Corsi is before you come into a thread about it? When people talk about possessions stats, they're usually talking about ES play. The Leafs' special teams have nothing to do with Corsi.
So yeah, they're 7-4-0 despite being outshot partially because they have great special teams. But those alone aren't enough when you're doing as badly in possession as the Leafs are.
And nothing will be determined one way or another 15 or even 20 games in. The notion that a game against the Penguins proves that possession stats are wrong, or that a game against somebody else proves that they are right, is ridiculous. Get to a 40-50 game mark and then maybe we can talk but ideally we'll be having this discussion at the 82 game mark.
There was no luck in the Leafs scoring and they won the 3rd, but Reimer made several unreal saves in the 2nd that were the difference in the game. Fleury made one big save that I can remember.
The situational numbers suggest that one way to lower your Corsi and raise your shooting percentage is to consciously choose defense over offense. But it can also happen randomly, because opportunities are random. Every player, every time he has the puck, has to decide whether to shoot or not. Some days, you might have cases where the best option is to shoot. Other days, you might have options where the best option is to pass, in hopes of a better shot.
Imagine a player has the puck. If he shoots, he has a 5% chance of scoring. If he gets the puck to his teammate on the other wing, the chance goes up to 10%. Should he pass? If he does, there's the risk that the defense will intercept the pass and take over. Given these numbers, he should only choose the pass if there's a better than 50/50 chance it'll get through the defense.
Now, options like that present themselves all the time, with different probabilities. Sometimes, you have only a 15% chance of completing a pass (across the slot through a bunch of legs, say), but, if it works, there's an 80% chance of the shot going in. Sometimes, it turns out nobody is open, and the 4% wrist shot from a bad angle is your best option.
All that, to a certain extent, is random. Perhaps one day, by chance, everything is a shot. You may take 60 Corsi shots, at 5% each. Your shooting percentage will average 5% -- 3 goals in 60 shots.
The next day, randomly, everything is a 50/50 pass to a 10% shot. You'll make 60 passes. 30 of them will be intercepted, and 30 of them will turn into Corsi shots. Your shooting percentage will average 10% -- 3 goals in 30 shots.
Corsi will think your first day was a much better day: you had twice the shots! But ... it wasn't. One day you had more low-probability shots, and one day you had fewer high-probability shots.
Wait? So Corsi is subject to randomness, but goals are somehow less so? If you dont see how that statement makes absolutely no sense then you should probably stick to posting on the leafs board.
You certainly aren't making any sense to me so I guess I'm good to stay.
What I gathered from that "article" was that corsi is subject to randomness? duh, of course it is. But actual goals are subject to much more randomness since it is such a limited sample compared to shots.
No player is conciously thinking about raising or lowering his corsi. Corsi is just a by product of having puck possession and creating scoring chances.
Discussing situations from a single game and trying to apply it to some grand theory is indeed trolling. That is akin to saying "Crosby scored a goal tonight so I believe he will score 82 goals this season"
By the way do you think Colorado has also figured out the secret to getting outshot and winning?
This just isn't true at all... Pittsburgh dominated the 2nd, but the Leafs played a great game, probably their best all year and completely shut them down. They dominated the 3rd and played well in the 1st as well.Any objective observer watching this game would say the difference has been Reimer. You can't argue the Leafs have any business leading this game.
I don't mean to be an ******* but maybe you need to find out what Corsi is before you come into a thread about it? When people talk about possessions stats, they're usually talking about ES play. The Leafs' special teams have nothing to do with Corsi.
So yeah, they're 7-4-0 despite being outshot partially because they have great special teams. But those alone aren't enough when you're doing as badly in possession as the Leafs are.
And nothing will be determined one way or another 15 or even 20 games in. The notion that a game against the Penguins proves that possession stats are wrong, or that a game against somebody else proves that they are right, is ridiculous. Get to a 40-50 game mark and then maybe we can talk but ideally we'll be having this discussion at the 82 game mark.
And nothing will be determined one way or another 15 or even 20 games in. The notion that a game against the Penguins proves that possession stats are wrong, or that a game against somebody else proves that they are right, is ridiculous. Get to a 40-50 game mark and then maybe we can talk but ideally we'll be having this discussion at the 82 game mark.
Go back a Couple pages. After losing 3 of 4 it started.See, this is where some people are losing me. I wish the people who were predicting the Leafs to fail last year because they were being out shot, who predicted they'd fail this year because last year they were outshot and who are predicting that they will fail this year because they are currently being outshot will give me a general time table for when they are going to fail. They've been saying it for 60 games now and for 60 games you've been wrong.
Sure, at some point they will be bad and you can all say "See, we were right!" It's like the possession stat freaks are NEVER wrong, it's "eventually" we will be right, and until then we can just keep on saying that. But I'm sure the moment they go on a losing streak it will be "See, we were right!" not "Well we need more time before we can say."
I wish any time I was wrong I could just say "At some undetermined point I'll be right" and whenever it looked like I was right I could just definitively say, "I'm right."
See, this is where some people are losing me. I wish the people who were predicting the Leafs to fail last year because they were being out shot, who predicted they'd fail this year because last year they were outshot and who are predicting that they will fail this year because they are currently being outshot will give me a general time table for when they are going to fail. They've been saying it for 60 games now and for 60 games you've been wrong.
Sure, at some point they will be bad and you can all say "See, we were right!" It's like the possession stat freaks are NEVER wrong, it's "eventually" we will be right, and until then we can just keep on saying that. But I'm sure the moment they go on a losing streak it will be "See, we were right!" not "Well we need more time before we can say."
I wish any time I was wrong I could just say "At some undetermined point I'll be right" and whenever it looked like I was right I could just definitively say, "I'm right."