The Athletic Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 1 Buffalo Sabres' future looks bright

[MarkusKetterer]

If you're looking for tough prospects, Nadeau, Kozak and Novikov might be more liable to play the body. As far as fighting, who knows because even bigger guys don't drop the gloves at the NHL level any more

Exactly. Brendan Lemieux led the entire NHL this past season with a staggering 97 PIMs.

Obviously it woulda been higher if he played more than 50 games, but still…

 

[MOGlLNY]

I'm happy that Pronman has us at #1 again? Maybe?

But holy hell do I take umbrage with some of the specifics within his ranking of our system:

1.) Dahlin with "below average" compete? Seriously? And "doesn't look like a player you'll be projecting to take tough minutes"????? Seriously? I mean....did he watch Dahlin at all????
2.) Cozens over Power? Hmmmmmmmm.
3.) Power with "average" skating and "average" puck skills? Hmmmmmmm.
4.) Ostlund looks like a "potential 3rd line center"........dude, 3rd line center is like is floor, not his potential.
5.) Johnson over Cobra?
6.) Johnson with "below average" puck skills?????
7.) Cobra a "sure-fire 3rd pairing NHLer"....and only a top 4 if his offense clicks? Dude, he's a top 4 NOW and if his offense really clicks, he's a top-pair guy.
8.) Rosen behind Lindgren and Nadeau? Can I have what he's smoking?
9.) Speaking of smoking -- how do Bloom, Poltapov and Kisakov not rank?
10.) Portillo at 17 and a "likely backup"????

I know he can't watch every prospect in every system...........but man is he off on a LOT.

I agree with most of your points but pump the breaks on this, you're sounding like a Ranger fan.

 

[brian_griffin]

Exactly. Brendan Lemieux led the entire NHL this past season with a staggering 97 PIMs.

Obviously it woulda been higher if he played more than 50 games, but still…

Heck, in the 1970s, that was a 2-week road trip for some guys.

 

[Jim Bob]

He was a little more complimentary to Dahlin and Power in the podcast.

 

[TehDoak]

While it is nice to see, this remains, essentially, a meaningless award to teams that pick early and often. It doesn't translate to on ice success.

 

[Jim Bob]

While it is nice to see, this remains, essentially, a meaningless award to teams that pick early and often. It doesn't translate to on ice success.

It doesn’t translate to immediate success in the NHL. But it certainly should point to a bright future if the team does a solid job developing the high quality young players that they have.

 

[flashsabre]

So one guy ranks 20+ players on 32 teams. There is just no way he has watched enough of these players to make accurate assessments. Take these rankings with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Reddawg]

I wonder where we would rank if you remove Dahlin and Cozens from the equation. To me, they are no longer prospects, especially Dahlin.

Every team has that boost though. Carolina isn’t as high as they are without Svechnikov making it under the 23yo barrier, same for Ottawa with Brady Tkachuk. It’s an assessment of the young core of every team, not just inexperienced prospects.

 

[buffalowing88]

I've said it time and again -- whenever I really watch Cozens, I see Jeff Carter v2.0. He's played in 2 All-Star games in his career and has always been right around that level.

I think that aspect Pronman has right.

I've also said time and again that Power to me reminds me very much of Jay Bouwmeester.....who was also a 2-time all star.

I don't agree with Pronman putting Cozens ahead of Power.................but there's a coherent argument for it, especially with Pronman's logic.

I appreciate and understand it more with your rationale provided.

I still don't think it makes a ton of sense but I also don't think Cozens will equal Jeff Carter. If he does, that is grand and I see the comps skill-wise. I just think Carter had a much better shot and was in much better situations which didn't hurt, either.

Bouwmeester is a solid comp for Power but I think Power has more offensive ability. That said, so did Bouwmeester which I think gets lost in looking at the back-half of his career. He simply sacrificed offensive rushes and that's fine but I'd like to think Power has a couple 60 point seasons in him.

Appreciate your perspective though and I'm usually a fan of Pronman but I think I'm just tesy after so many seasons where he (and many other analysts) have said we have this great prospect pool but a lot of guys don't turn out or stick around for it to matter...

My guess is Cozens gets the bump because he’s entering his 3rd NHL season, while Power is entering his first. So it makes sense even if you disagree with it.

Yeah, I understand that. I am just really down on Cozens this year and really high on everyone else so maybe also I'm just projecting.

I just saw a guy with a lot of heart who won a lot of puck battles but who didn't show anything elite in terms of offensive skills and I'm concerned about how that translates the more that we bring skilled guys into full-time roles now.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I'm happy that Pronman has us at #1 again? Maybe?

But holy hell do I take umbrage with some of the specifics within his ranking of our system:

1.) Dahlin with "below average" compete? Seriously? And "doesn't look like a player you'll be projecting to take tough minutes"????? Seriously? I mean....did he watch Dahlin at all????
2.) Cozens over Power? Hmmmmmmmm.
3.) Power with "average" skating and "average" puck skills? Hmmmmmmm.
4.) Ostlund looks like a "potential 3rd line center"........dude, 3rd line center is like is floor, not his potential.
5.) Johnson over Cobra?
6.) Johnson with "below average" puck skills?????
7.) Cobra a "sure-fire 3rd pairing NHLer"....and only a top 4 if his offense clicks? Dude, he's a top 4 NOW and if his offense really clicks, he's a top-pair guy.
8.) Rosen behind Lindgren and Nadeau? Can I have what he's smoking?
9.) Speaking of smoking -- how do Bloom, Poltapov and Kisakov not rank?
10.) Portillo at 17 and a "likely backup"????

I know he can't watch every prospect in every system...........but man is he off on a LOT.

Yeah, I can't take Pronman's opinion on prospects seriously. Even if he really, really tried at it, there aren't enough hours in the day for 1 guy to be personally familiar with every NHL team's prospect pool + the entire upcoming draft class.

 

[K8fool]

If you're looking for tough prospects, Nadeau, Kozak and Novikov might be more liable to play the body. As far as fighting, who knows because even bigger guys don't drop the gloves at the NHL level any more

They did the last ten games and some of the playoffs.. The penguins just watched as trouba cheap shotted syd the old man over and over until he missed a game and syd nor anyone else broke truobas jaw and or aided in improving his dental situation.. Buffalo 2011.. I am thrilled that KA built a team that would destroy trouba after he hit someone cheap and deliberate once. Bravo!

Appreciate the rundown of sabres grit report.. who is going to kick who's ass getting in line behind Samuelson Cozens and okposo..

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'm happy that Pronman has us at #1 again? Maybe?

But holy hell do I take umbrage with some of the specifics within his ranking of our system:

1.) Dahlin with "below average" compete? Seriously? And "doesn't look like a player you'll be projecting to take tough minutes"????? Seriously? I mean....did he watch Dahlin at all????
2.) Cozens over Power? Hmmmmmmmm.
3.) Power with "average" skating and "average" puck skills? Hmmmmmmm.
4.) Ostlund looks like a "potential 3rd line center"........dude, 3rd line center is like is floor, not his potential.
5.) Johnson over Cobra?
6.) Johnson with "below average" puck skills?????
7.) Cobra a "sure-fire 3rd pairing NHLer"....and only a top 4 if his offense clicks? Dude, he's a top 4 NOW and if his offense really clicks, he's a top-pair guy.
8.) Rosen behind Lindgren and Nadeau? Can I have what he's smoking?
9.) Speaking of smoking -- how do Bloom, Poltapov and Kisakov not rank?
10.) Portillo at 17 and a "likely backup"????

I know he can't watch every prospect in every system...........but man is he off on a LOT.

I think some of your umbrage is misplaced. These players are being graded against NHL competition.

1. Kompeet isn't the first thing I think of with Dahlin, but i'd agree it's not some glaring weakness.
2. That's a defendable take. It could be wrong, I wouldn't have power or cozens as Buffalo's #2.
3. You think he's above average for an NHL player?
4. His floor is a career SHL player
5. Perfectly reasonable. He thinks Johnson's skating is good enough to make him a top 4 guy.
6. It's close If that means worse than 1-3 D on most teams probably true. If it means worse than 3-4 D on most teams, maybe not.
7. Samuelsson has a floor of a 3rd pairing right now. He's not shown much offense to date, outside of a season in the AHL. This is less of a negative than you're making it out to be.
8. This seems reasonable. Nadeau had a great season, and if you like non analytic attributes Lindgren is an insanely good skater.
9. Because Buffalo's U23 pool is incredibly deep. These are the caliber of prospects which round out most teams bottom 10.
10. A likely NHL player for a 22 year old goalie is really good. Portillo is around the top 10 goalie prospects in NHL systems, a group which really falls off after 6. It's unlikely there's currently 10 starting goalies in NHL pipelines.

It's not worthwhile to pour over his attribute scores; but in the main these are decent lists especially given the span of the project.

 

[Matt Ress]

They did the last ten games and some of the playoffs.. The penguins just watched as trouba cheap shotted syd the old man over and over until he missed a game and syd nor anyone else broke truobas jaw and or aided in improving his dental situation.. Buffalo 2011.. I am thrilled that KA built a team that would destroy trouba after he hit someone cheap and deliberate once. Bravo!

Appreciate the rundown of sabres grit report.. who is going to kick who's ass getting in line behind Samuelson Cozens and okposo..

Lol yeah the playoffs are a whole new animal. Unless you have a golden boy (we don't) you have to just fight back in the playoffs

 

[K8fool]

Lol yeah the playoffs are a whole new animal. Unless you have a golden boy (we don't) you have to just fight back in the playoffs

Let's hope we have 4 boys of gold.. who can fight their own battles and those of others .. Dahlin and Power. Thompson and Mitts .. I want all four to drop Their gloves and break trouba s face after he cheap shots okposo. Making him wear a mask the rest of his miserable career..

Hey. I have high expectations.. So does Donny "killer" Granato.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Let's hope we have 4 boys of gold.. who can fight their own battles and those of others .. Dahlin and Power. Thompson and Mitts .. I want all four to drop Their gloves and break trouba s face after he cheap shots okposo. Making him wear a mask the rest of his miserable career..

Hey. I have high expectations.. So does Donny "killer" Granato.

You believe having a skill player fight Trouba will somehow cause him to re-think his ways? I mean even in the heyday of the NHL enforcer it never really prevented players from hitting star players. Plenty of guys hit or tried to hit Gretzky, Lemieux etc. and if they had to drop the gloves later so be it. Did Rob Ray prevent LaFontaine from getting concussed? Maybe if they had Ray they could have prevented the Neil hit on Drury, since Peters presence didn't prevent it? Fighting is a dying part of the game. Honestly even though I thought I'd miss it I really don't, and the fights now are generally just hug fests anyway.

 

[K8fool]

You believe having a skill player fight Trouba will somehow cause him to re-think his ways? I mean even in the heyday of the NHL enforcer it never really prevented players from hitting star players. Plenty of guys hit or tried to hit Gretzky, Lemieux etc. and if they had to drop the gloves later so be it. Did Rob Ray prevent LaFontaine from getting concussed? Maybe if they had Ray they could have prevented the Neil hit on Drury, since Peters presence didn't prevent it? Fighting is a dying part of the game. Honestly even though I thought I'd miss it I really don't, and the fights now are generally just hug fests anyway.

Cherry picking my comments that were more sarcastic than actually defendable.. but sure...

I never once said change ways. You don't change the ways of the elementary school bully.. you fight the bastard and keep getting up and he won't mess w you or your team if he's fckd up..

You repeat trouba who is not a bully.. He's a coward that waits for and times a sneaky elbow to a jaw , especially when you are stupid enough to be looking at the puck..This is not a check but a play done on a concussion recurrence as dangerous as his also cowardly cross check into the post or where penalty box glass. He is a creative coward .. The fact this motivates a Future marchand like laffeniere makes me know that team is soft and scared getting the other team to worry about injury from cheap hits.
The only way to deal w this is exactly how Edmonton played Calgary ( scum and self agrandizing sporto entitled idiots and career injury mercs like lucic..
When a cheap hit is delivered any guy , even better if its a skilled guy , gets a eye for an eye ( but day to day not truoba month to month) cross check to the face in the regular season where game no longer matters.. If some doosh tries to injure our players the response must quick thought out team wide and decisive. We probably only have to respond in kind twice and any player that thinks he can axe chop mitts might go home w a cast . Then he fights , we finish it and mist teams get the message.. if Thompson is the one to elbow trouba ,so much the better.
Tampa is a group that tried to injure our players but they dealt w trouba and deflated the entire cowardly group as trouba tried knock palat 's head into the emergency room . Palat ,a tough skill guy had his head on a swivel ready , ducked the cowardly elbow went low and hip checked trouba legally feet in the air in front of his bench. Perfect. The rangers never had a chance after that. If it was regular season someone would have to find trouba or similar guy and beat his asz so the message is clear.. KA and Donny think this way as does the team from okposo to Cozens .
So yes . Edmonton stepped up all skill guys , not dirty just went after every check . The small guys have to hit even harder and they did and wore out the bigger stronger, SLOWER , flames. And Big too slow can't keep up expensive doosh thachuk is Florida . Florida might work as Barkov is king but

 

[Fezzy126]

I've said it time and again -- whenever I really watch Cozens, I see Jeff Carter v2.0. He's played in 2 All-Star games in his career and has always been right around that level.

I think that aspect Pronman has right.

I've also said time and again that Power to me reminds me very much of Jay Bouwmeester.....who was also a 2-time all star.

I don't agree with Pronman putting Cozens ahead of Power.................but there's a coherent argument for it, especially with Pronman's logic.

I have no problem with Cozens at #2, in fact it matches what I see. As far as comparables go, I continue to go with Ryan Kesler. Perhaps the defensive acumen isn't quite there, but the compete level, sandpaper, and desire to win are all right in line with Kesler.

With Power, I think the Jay-Bo comparison is dead on...

So while I'll admit that making comparables is a terrible practice, I'd take Kesler over Jay-bo all day.

 

[Paxon]

It's hard to imagine someone can view enough of these players in-depth to offer up much more than cursory assessments and build off other, trusted people's opinions. I struggle to view who they already have, let alone trying to do that for 32 teams. I applaud his effort if I too not agree with the selection of his rankings, the why and the wherefore of how he gets the list though make for some stark differences of opinion.

True, but he can't get a pass for this when it comes to Dahlin specifically. The best and most prominent player on the team, an All-Star and former #1OA pick. If you can't get your views in on him what are you doing? The same goes for Power to a lesser extent: #1OA, big time player for a powerhouse program, played in the Olympics, got NHL games. Average skating? You only have to see him once to know that's not true.

 

[Chainshot]

True, but he can't get a pass for this when it comes to Dahlin specifically. The best and most prominent player on the team, an All-Star and former #1OA pick. If you can't get your views in on him what are you doing? The same goes for Power to a lesser extent: #1OA, big time player for a powerhouse program, played in the Olympics, got NHL games. Average skating? You only have to see him once to know that's not true.

Valid point about prominent players, though he does seem to have three settings for his rankings in above average, average, and below average. *shrug* That alone makes it vague enough to not need to explain a rating.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

There are plenty of HF posters, on here and on the Prospects page, who devote many hours to watching and reading about prospects. Bless their souls; I waste enough time on my hockey habit without emulating them.

As with all useful internet blather, a bit of sifting is required to find the nuggets of valuable insight, but I think their collective wisdom is at least as useful as that of a guy like Pronman.

 

[Man of Principles]

I’ll be the first to admit I wasn’t the least bit confident that this organization could build a worthwhile pipeline. I’ll eat my crow willingly. The last year and change has been excellent. It started when Ventura was brought into the fold. From that point on, most roster moves/draft picks have been worthwhile or merited. It’s obvious that the Pegulas have stepped back and allowed the front office to run how it should. Terry probably learned a tough lesson from the Taylor Hall fiasco. I’m straying a bit, but the big thing here is the additions to the front office are paying huge dividends. Despite still having a very green GM, the staff he's surrounded himself have made a huge impact. This operation no longer feels directionless.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

CP is high on skill I know but its tough not to see what Samuelson brings to the table. I would have in my top 5 with Dahlin, Power, Quinn and Peterka. Hes great already and could be the best defensive defenseman in the league soon. And smart enough to contribute offensively too.

pronman is a hack

thats probably an exaggeration but I disagree with his views on hockey, he has a methodology and adheres to it even when its ridiculous to do so

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I’ll be the first to admit I wasn’t the least bit confident that this organization could build a worthwhile pipeline. I’ll eat my crow willingly. The last year and change has been excellent. It started when Ventura was brought into the fold. From that point on, most roster moves/draft picks have been worthwhile or merited. It’s obvious that the Pegulas have stepped back and allowed the front office to run how it should. Terry probably learned a tough lesson from the Taylor Hall fiasco. I’m straying a bit, but the big thing here is the additions to the front office are paying huge dividends. Despite still having a very green GM, the staff he's surrounded himself have made a huge impact. This operation no longer feels directionless.

I think more than anything things appear to be on the right track because they finally have a GM who listens to the scouting staff and the analytics guys. They have those departments for a reason, and it sure seemed like past GM's just refused to listen to them at all. Just from a drafting perspective that's a welcome change, but we will see how that affects future roster building when they need to start moving players out etc.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Valid point about prominent players, though he does seem to have three settings for his rankings in above average, average, and below average. *shrug* That alone makes it vague enough to not need to explain a rating.

There's 'his guys' and then theres players who are lucky the nhl gave them a chance

he's like the tim murray of hockey writers

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

It's hard to imagine someone can view enough of these players in-depth to offer up much more than cursory assessments and build off other, trusted people's opinions. I struggle to view who they already have, let alone trying to do that for 32 teams. I applaud his effort if I too not agree with the selection of his rankings, the why and the wherefore of how he gets the list though make for some stark differences of opinion.

its a fair point

so don't do a player by player review, maybe if you work for espn and are just churning out generic content. but I expect something better from the athletic