Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[HFpapi]

There, I said it.

The big 4 has been mythologized and deified but it’s been fine since no player has made a compelling argument to question the sanctity of it until now.

Crosby made an argument for 5th best of all-time but even without losing those three seasons of his prime, I don’t think he was ever a serious threat to Howe/Orr/Super Mario.

McDavid is peaking higher than Howe right now. He’s simply a better player and I’m done pretending that he’s not. (Insert Joker meme).

Howe has legendary longevity but Connor has been very healthy and shows no signs of slowing down. Even if he doesn’t match Howes’ longevity (who can) I value the peak more.

Also, far be it for me to discredit the OG’s, we simply have to factor into the equation that Howe played in a 6 team league against almost exclusively Canadians. We simply have to acknowledge how much more competition McDavid has. He’s being trailed in the scoring race by a German, Russian, and Czech. That simply didn’t happen in Howes’ day.

Connor isn’t nor will he peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games.

If McDavid wins 7-8 scoring titles and 5-6 MVP’s and plays 1400 games I think you have to put him number #2 all-time.

Either way, it’s incredible what we are witnessing right now.

Thoughts? Will McDavid be #2 of all-time when the dust settles?

Click to read more...

 

[reino]

Agreed

 

[hamzarocks]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in Rosses/Harts/Lindsay

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

The 2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in the dead puck era coming off three years of being retired. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

 

[EXTRAS]

I could see him being seen ahead of howe

Tough to put him ahead of gretzky lemieux Orr unless he shifts another gear.

I'd say he is still in the crosby level for now

 

[Duder54]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in rosses/harts/lindsasy

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in dead puck era. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

The numbers that Gretzky put up during his time are outright insane, but the Mario comeback season will forever remain one of the greatest things I've ever witnessed as a hockey fan. Shame he couldn't stay healthy throughout his career.

 

[snipes]

He’s honestly the most gifted player to ever play.

He’ll never touch Gretzky’s records but in terms of just pure hockey ability he has a very good case as being the most talented player ever.

It’ll be a “Big 5“ by the time his career is done.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I didn’t exist during the Howe era, but I find that anybody who played in the 50’s are nowhere near the fitness and skill level of todays game. Extrapolating what he would’ve done today is just unreasonable given the multitude of factors.

 

[MM917]

I doubt he ever passes Crosby on the list.

McDavid has two big minuses that although have nothing to do with him will likely hurt hi legacy when comepeting with the others.

1. If he sticks with Edmonton no chance to win a Cup let alone multiple Cups. While it might be unfair to hold up team achievements when judging individual players when you are talking about the GOAT's it will be a factor and every other top player has multiple wins so McDavid having none will hurt him. It will be interesting to see if he wins some late in his career after his prime is over and he leaves Edmonton how that might change but zero Cups in his prime won't help when it is such a close comparison.

2. No chance for international success. The Golden goal is a signature moment in Crosby's career, him leading Canada to one of the most dominant performances in Sochi helps him as well. Again this might not be fair and not everyone will say it matters but overall I think it affects people's view on players and McDavid is going to miss out on the chance to get that signature international moment- Gretzky to Lemiuex in 87 as well.

Even ignoring these I think it is way too early to think he will be number 2, that isn't a mark against him just an acknowledgement on how great the other players at the top are/were.

 

[Three On Zero]

He likely flirts with 5th and rotates with Crosby for that position

 

[hamzarocks]

I didn’t exist during the Howe era, but I find that anybody who played in the 50’s are nowhere near the fitness and skill level of todays game. Extrapolating what he would’ve done today is just unreasonable given the multitude of factors.

Howe was fitter/stronger than 99% of players who played today

Same with Bobby Hull

There was a reason these guys dominated hockey (NHL + WHA) for 20 - 30 years.

Howe would easily be a top 6 player in this NHL in his career primes along with

Gretzky
Lemiuex
Mcdavid
Orr
Crosby

Hull would be in the next tier with

OV
Kucherov
Draisaitl
Matthews
Mack

 

[The Grim Reaper]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in Rosses/Harts/Lindsay

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

The 2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in the dead puck era coming off three years of being retired. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

HFB bat signal has been raised, buckle up

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

4th best. Can’t see how he surpasses Lemiuex or Orr. But I think he’s better than Crosby, from an offensive perspective

 

[Duder54]

Comparing across eras is always tough, but for me it's clear that McDavid is head and shoulders above his peers in this era. It's not remotely close.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Will never get above Mario or Wayne.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

I don't know. My list is

Orr
Lemieux
Gretzky

Is he going to be better than them? He needs a cup and to do that he needs to leave Edm as last year was an illusion (got smoked first real opponent they net ,still was amazing to watch them sign Campbell under that failed pretense, lmfao)

Mcd is incredible,he's fast, turns nothing plays into goals. Seriously tho I'm not convinced he will end up better than crosby. He needs the cup.. If he doesent bounce he will most certainly end up the best player to never win a cup...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I doubt he ever passes Crosby on the list.

McDavid has two big minuses that although have nothing to do with him will likely hurt hi legacy when comepeting with the others.

1. If he sticks with Edmonton no chance to win a Cup let alone multiple Cups. While it might be unfair to hold up team achievements when judging individual players when you are talking about the GOAT's it will be a factor and every other top player has multiple wins so McDavid having none will hurt him. It will be interesting to see if he wins some late in his career after his prime is over and he leaves Edmonton how that might change but zero Cups in his prime won't help when it is such a close comparison.

2. No chance for international success. The Golden goal is a signature moment in Crosby's career, him leading Canada to one of the most dominant performances in Sochi helps him as well. Again this might not be fair and not everyone will say it matters but overall I think it affects people's view on players and McDavid is going to miss out on the chance to get that signature international moment- Gretzky to Lemiuex in 87 as well.

Even ignoring these I think it is way too early to think he will be number 2, that isn't a mark against him just an acknowledgement on how great the other players at the top are/were.

He’ll throttle Crosby enough in individual awards to make up for both.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Comparing across eras is always tough, but for me it's clear that McDavid is head and shoulders above his peers in this era. It's not remotely close.

it's a lot closer than people here want to admit.

He’ll throttle Crosby enough in individual awards to make up for both.

Nope,cup of bust brah

 

[hamzarocks]

Comparing across eras is always tough, but for me it's clear that McDavid is head and shoulders above his peers in this era. It's not remotely close.

To be fair he has 2 seasons where he is head and shoulders above the rest

2015-2016 he wasn't the best
2016-2017 --> he and Crosby was very similar in production (100 pts vs 97 pt pace)
2017-2018 --> he had 4/5 guys within 10 pts of his production (Malkin, Mack, Hall, Giroux, Kuch)
2018 - 2019 --> Kucherov was better than him
2019 - 2020 --> Draisaitl was better than him
2020 - 2021 --> Clear cut best player, was 25-30 pts better than anyone else
2021-2022 --> Matthews was very close pace-wise (120 vs 125 I think) and Gaudreau/Huberdeau both were at 115
2022 - 2023 --> He is again 25-30 pts better than anyone else (Draisaitl his teammate and Mack/Kuch being the challengers for 2nd)

 

[joestevens29]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in Rosses/Harts/Lindsay

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

The 2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in the dead puck era coming off three years of being retired. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

I don’t think you understand dead puck era. Look at his teammates that year

 

[MM917]

He’ll throttle Crosby enough in individual awards to make up for both.

I certainly think it will be a debate, especially with homer Oiler fans, but the difference in winning, especially with how responsible Crosby is for his teams (Pitt and Canada) winning will be hard to ignore.

 

[tfwnogf]

The big 4 all won cups, I know it's a team trophy but still. Being one of the all time big 4 legends you need to win. I could see an argument for replacing Howe, as his legacy will fade as it grows older.

The other 3 are near impossible to surpass unless Mcdavid takes his level of talent to the absolute pinnacle with 150+ point seasons, 2000 points, individual hardware and at least a cup, preferably 2.

He is in control of this destiny, I think he will be top 5 when all is said and done. How much higher he climbs we will see. Should be fun to witness. Maybe the big 4 will become the big 5.

 

[Duder54]

To be fair he has 2 seasons where he is head and shoulders above the rest

2015-2016 he wasn't the best
2016-2017 --> him and Crosby were very similar in production (100 pts vs 97 pt pace)
2017-2018 --> he had 4/5 guys within 10 pts of his production (Malkin, Mack, Hall, Giroux, Kuch)
2018 - 2019 --> Kucherov was better than him
2019 - 2020 --> Draisaitl was better than him
2020 - 2021 --> Clear cut best player, was 25-30 pts better than anyone lese
2021-2022 --> Matthews was very close pace wise (120 vs 125 i think) and Gaudreau/Huberdeau both were at 115
2022 - 2023 --> He is again 25-30 pts better than anyone else (Draisailt his teammate and Mack/Kuch being the challengers for 2nd)

Now compare him against the field over the same time span (cumulatively)...

 

[Albatros]

I didn’t exist during the Howe era, but I find that anybody who played in the 50’s are nowhere near the fitness and skill level of todays game. Extrapolating what he would’ve done today is just unreasonable given the multitude of factors.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

There, I said it.

The opinion we were all anxiously awaiting. Thank goodness the public knows.

 

[hamzarocks]

Now compare him against the field over the same time span (cumulatively)...

The 2nd best producer from 2015-2016 onwards is

Drasaitl with 695 in 579 games

Mcdavid has 810pts in 547

The second best producer in terms of ppg is Kucherov

He has 616 pts in 486 games which becomes 693 in 547 games

So Mcdavid is 117 pts better in the ~8 years since entering the league than Kucherov, which is basically attributed to his 25-30 pt dominance over the filed in 2021 and 2023.

Outside of those years he is 5-10 pts usually better than everyone else when he's winning the ross

He will need another 1-2 years of 25-30 pt >2nd to be in that 99/66 level of superiority