Conn Smythe after 3 rounds

[KPower]

And you'll whine about it for three years.

 

[yuri28]

The Conn Smythe should go to Malkin this year, he's earned it.

I wouldn't say he earned it yet as Sid has played better for me during those POs but him winning a 2nd CS would certainly be sweet, especially in regard to the guys who didn't consider him one of the top 100 NHL players of all time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Elliott Friedman, one of the people who votes on the Conn Smythe, said that he's going to vote for a shared Smythe between Fleury and Murray if he's allowed to and if the Penguins win the cup. He said he asked Chris Johnston (the guy who runs Conn Smythe voting apparently) if he can do that, and if he says yes, it's totally possible that both Murray and Fleury would share the Smythe. I think that duo would immediately jump into 1st if the voters can vote like that.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Elliott Friedman, one of the people who votes on the Conn Smythe, said that he's going to vote for a shared Smythe between Fleury and Murray if he's allowed to and if the Penguins win the cup. He said he asked Chris Johnston (the guy who runs Conn Smythe voting apparently) if he can do that, and if he says yes, it's totally possible that both Murray and Fleury would share the Smythe. I think that duo would immediately jump into 1st if the voters can vote like that.

That is quite possibly the dumbest thing Friedman has ever said or done. Would turn a historical and prestigious award into a joke.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That is quite possibly the dumbest thing Friedman has ever said or done. Would turn a historical and prestigious award into a joke.

Why would it turn it into a joke? The Penguins goalies have been the best players on the team in the playoffs. Fleury is the only reason they made it passed Washington and Murray has been putting up godly numbers ever since getting his net back.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Why would it turn it into a joke? The Penguins goalies have been the best players on the team in the playoffs. Fleury is the only reason they made it passed Washington and Murray has been putting up godly numbers ever since getting his net back.

It's an MVP award. It should not be shared by definition. What's next, shared Hart trophies?

And sorry but no, neither goalie has been the most valuable player during this playoff run. Fleury lost his job as the starter against an anemic trapping team, and Murray (if all goes well) will end up with only 7 wins these playoffs, instead of the standard 16 that a true CS winning goalie would typically have won before him. Murray missed more than half the playoffs, so he's also automatically out of the CS picture.

 

[Sam Spade]

That is quite possibly the dumbest thing Friedman has ever said or done. Would turn a historical and prestigious award into a joke.

Agreed. Forget the fact that Murray is in no way a CS candidate, it is just dumb.

 

[Wings4Life]

Elliott Friedman, one of the people who votes on the Conn Smythe, said that he's going to vote for a shared Smythe between Fleury and Murray if he's allowed to and if the Penguins win the cup. He said he asked Chris Johnston (the guy who runs Conn Smythe voting apparently) if he can do that, and if he says yes, it's totally possible that both Murray and Fleury would share the Smythe. I think that duo would immediately jump into 1st if the voters can vote like that.

Oh man, now I've officially heard it all.

Agreed. Forget the fact that Murray is in no way a CS candidate, it is just dumb.

Yeah. It seems like certain members of the media will bend over backwards to prevent Malkin from getting the Smythe this year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's an MVP award. It should not be shared by definition. What's next, shared Hart trophies?

The 2001 Baseball Playoff MVP was shared between Randy Johnston and Curt Schilling. Was that award made a joke because of that?

And sorry but no, neither goalie has been the most valuable player during this playoff run. Fleury lost his job as the starter against an anemic trapping team, and Murray (if all goes well) will end up with only 7 wins these playoffs, instead of the standard 16 that a true CS winning goalie would typically have won before him. Murray missed more than half the playoffs, so he's also automatically out of the CS picture.

That's straight up laughable, because with even average goaltending, the Penguins wouldn't be even close to where they're at now. With Fleury only playing average, the Penguins lose in the 2nd round to Washington. No question in my mind. With Murray playing average, the Penguins also probably lose to the Senators even if they got passed Washington.

I genuinely have no idea how you can say the Penguins goaltending position hasn't been by far the most valuable position of the Penguins this year. The Penguins don't make it to the cup finals if Fleury doesn't put up a .957 save% against the Capitals in the Penguins wins. The Penguins don't make the cup finals if Murray doesn't put up a .950 save% against the Senators in the Penguins wins. Of those 7 wins (4 for Fleury against Washington, 3 for Murray against Ottawa), the Penguins won 4 of those games by 1 goal and 1 by 2 goals. Hell, even if you include Fleury's win against Ottawa (1-0 shutout win), that's 5 of 8 wins being by 1 goal. The Penguins would not be where they're at if their goalies aren't being excellent.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Oh man, now I've officially heard it all.



Yeah. It seems like certain members of the media will bend over backwards to prevent Malkin from getting the Smythe this year.

Should they not give the Malkin/Kessel duo a shot at it?

 

[Ainec]

According to Vegas it's currently

1. Malkin
2. Guentzel
3. Crosby
4. Murray

 

[Wings4Life]

Should they not give the Malkin/Kessel duo a shot at it?

If there's anyone less popular with the Canadian media than Malkin, it's Kessel.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

The 2001 Baseball Playoff MVP was shared between Randy Johnston and Curt Schilling. Was that award made a joke because of that?

Baseball?

This is a hockey forum. Find me a legitimate hockey MVP award that was shared. Hint: the Hart, Pearson, Lindsay, and Smythe have never been shared before in history, and with good reason.

That's straight up laughable, because with even average goaltending, the Penguins wouldn't be even close to where they're at now. With Fleury only playing average, the Penguins lose in the 2nd round to Washington. No question in my mind. With Murray playing average, the Penguins also probably lose to the Senators even if they got passed Washington.

I genuinely have no idea how you can say the Penguins goaltending position hasn't been by far the most valuable position of the Penguins this year. The Penguins don't make it to the cup finals if Fleury doesn't put up a .957 save% against the Capitals in the Penguins wins. The Penguins don't make the cup finals if Murray doesn't put up a .950 save% against the Senators in the Penguins wins. Of those 7 wins (4 for Fleury against Washington, 3 for Murray against Ottawa), the Penguins won 4 of those games by 1 goal and 1 by 2 goals. Hell, even if you include Fleury's win against Ottawa (1-0 shutout win), that's 5 of 8 wins being by 1 goal. The Penguins would not be where they're at if their goalies aren't being excellent.

Go look up Fleurys numbers on the road this playoffs, and ask yourself, are those Cup caliber numbers? If your answer is "No", then Fleury has no case for MVP. Sullivan knew his road game was a weakness for MAF, since it's been that way all season with him, and manifested itself again in the playoffs. That's why Fleury got yanked and lost his job after yet another bad road game.

Murray has been great. He's also started a grand total of what, 6 games?

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

Why would it turn it into a joke? The Penguins goalies have been the best players on the team in the playoffs. Fleury is the only reason they made it passed Washington and Murray has been putting up godly numbers ever since getting his net back.

Come on I'm a pens fan and post infrequently on the pens board. But a shared Smythe is ludicrous. Will never ever happen. Let alone two goalies sharing it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Baseball?

This is a hockey forum. Find me a legitimate hockey MVP award that was shared. Hint: the Hart, Pearson, Lindsay, and Smythe have never been shared before in history, and with good reason.

How is that your response to that? I'll ask it again, is the Baseball playoff MVP now a joke because 2 guys shared it in 2001? It doesn't matter if this is a hockey forum or that it has never happened in the NHL (spoiler alert, it has only happened twice in the MLB), just answer that question. You said that the Conn Smythe would become a joke from 2 guys sharing it. Is the Baseball playoff MVP a joke?

Go look up Fleurys numbers on the road this playoffs, and ask yourself, are those Cup caliber numbers? If your answer is "No", then Fleury has no case for MVP.

Oh I forgot, you're a guy that hates Fleury and rips on him at any chance you can get. Why are road numbers all that matters? Why does his save% in wins (.956 save% in the playoffs) matter less than arbitrarily looking at his save% on the road (which was .916 before the Ottawa mess, which is hardly horrible). You're just picking and choosing which stats to look at because you don't like Fleury. It's flat out indisputable that he's the only reason the Penguins got passed Washington and he was absolutely fantastic in the playoffs up until game 3 against Ottawa. The Penguins aren't where they're at if Fleury isn't putting up a .950 save% in wins. That's simply a fact. The Penguins have won a ton of close games in the playoffs this year, especially when Fleury was in net, that they had no business in winning.

You can look at road save% all you want, but the point of games is to win them, not to put up good numbers on the road. In games where the Penguins won, Fleury was phenomenal and had to be phenomenal. Again, Fleury had a .956 save% in wins the Penguins had this year, including a .942 save% in wins on the road. If he wouldn't have done that, the Penguins would have been out in the second round.

Sullivan knew his road game was a weakness for MAF, since it's been that way all season with him, and manifested itself again in the playoffs. That's why Fleury got yanked and lost his job after yet another bad road game.

No, Fleury got yanked because Matt Murray is the Penguins starter and pretty clearly Sullivan's guy. The fact that you said that Fleury had "yet another bad road game" makes me question if you actually watched the playoffs this year. The only road games where Fleury was bad was game 4 against Columbus and game 3 against Ottawa.

Murray has been great. He's also started a grand total of what, 6 games?

And I'm not saying that only Murray deserves it, I'm saying the Penguins entire goaltending group has an argument for it. Which they obviously do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Come on I'm a pens fan and post infrequently on the pens board. But a shared Smythe is ludicrous. Will never ever happen. Let alone two goalies sharing it.

That's not relevant to my point. I'm not arguing whether it will or won't happen. I'm arguing against the idea that the award would somehow become a joke if that's what happened. The Penguins goalie position as a whole has been the MVP of the playoffs this year, it just so happens to be that both of those guys have basically split the time.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I doubt it happens, but it would be kind of fitting if Murray and Fleury were co-winners. Geno, Sid, and Guentzel have all had their moments as the best Pens player (or most important/clutch), but the two goalies have been the biggest reason the Pens are where they are right now.

The problem is Friedman seems to go out of his way nowadays to be "against the norm" with his voting, so chances are he's the only guy in the media who would even vote for the co-winner thing.

 

[I am not exposed]

Crosby is only 4 points behind Malkin, and is playing terrific defensive hockey. It's a coin toss.


But for me, if I could, I'd give it to Sullivan. Always makes the right adjustment, always makes the right move.

Malkin is also playing very well defensively.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Malkin is also playing very well defensively.

Not that it's his fault, but the difference is Malkin's not used in defensive situations if Sullivan can help it. Crosby is relied on more in the defensive zone (especially on face offs) than Malkin is, so he's going to have more defensive responsibility as a whole because of it.

Malkin's taken 49 defensive zone faceoffs in 21 games these playoffs. Crosby's taken 105.

I know some folks absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Crosby is tasked with more defensive responsibilities than Malkin and that it should factor into which has been "better", but it is what it is.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Definitely Geno's to lose right now.

 

[Tender Rip]

I know some folks absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Crosby is tasked with more defensive responsibilities than Malkin and that it should factor into which has been "better", but it is what it is.

I don't know that people refuse to acknowledge that. Seems hard not to when it is very evident that Sullivan always get Sid out there to close out a game over Geno and that their TOI reflects that pretty clearly.

I do believe that this season and not least these playoffs, it is less a matter of that being smart bench management reasonable than it just being habit. Malkin to me has played better and more conscientious defense than Sid in these playoffs - while of course it is also a factor that he is tasked less in that regard. In the final minute of a game, Sid might also be more dependable in making the absolutely safe play than Geno who gets more.... shall we say creatively inspired.

Another thing is that Malkin's line isn't going out there as much because he is historically much less reliable on faceoffs than our other guys and it should likely also be a factor that Phil cannot win a battle to save his life, which isn't really what you want in a close it down scenario. Put Rust on Malkin's RW instead and I'd have absolutely no reservations about that line as shut down line too when it needs to be.

In any event - while Sid playing those minutes strengthens his case, Malkin not doing so has nothing to do with his current performance when in the defensive zone, IMO. Earlier in his career - sure.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't know that people refuse to acknowledge that. Seems hard not to when it is very evident that Sullivan always get Sid out there to close out a game over Geno and that their TOI reflects that pretty clearly.

Penguins fans acknowledge it, but most opposing fans who are "anti-Crosby" act as though Crosby's defensive usage adds zero value to his game and judge him entirely on "points" (just look at the continuing "Kessel should have won the CS last year" folks who ignore the fact Sid played a much better 2-way game than Kessel, and focus on the 3 measly point gap).

I do believe that this season and not least these playoffs, it is less a matter of that being smart bench management reasonable than it just being habit. Malkin to me has played better and more conscientious defense than Sid in these playoffs - while of course it is also a factor that he is tasked less in that regard. In the final minute of a game, Sid might also be more dependable in making the absolutely safe play than Geno who gets more.... shall we say creatively inspired.

I don't think Malkin's been better defensively than Crosby this playoffs. I think the big difference in +/- (which, again, a lot of the anti-Crosby crowd brings up) is due to how much of a train wreck Sheary was against Columbus. Ever since Sheary was removed from that line, Sid's line was back to being responsible in its own zone.

In any event - while Sid playing those minutes strengthens his case, Malkin not doing so has nothing to do with his current performance when in the defensive zone, IMO. Earlier in his career - sure.

The bolded is the main point I'm making. Sid should get credit for the extra defensive responsibility, so folks can't just say "Malkin has 4 more points, so he's more deserving" because it doesn't factor in the extra responsibility Crosby has.

 

[TheStatican]

I genuinely have no idea how you can say the Penguins goaltending position hasn't been by far the most valuable position of the Penguins this year.

Dude, it's not voted based on position. If so then why not just give it to the centers, Malkin & Crosby.

The 2001 Baseball Playoff MVP was shared between Randy Johnston and Curt Schilling. Was that award made a joke because of that?

1) IIRC Johnston and Schilling both had ridiculous playoffs that year and were far more valuable than anyone else on the team. Where as with the Pen's there's 5 or 6 players who are close in importance as is usually the case every year in hockey; Malkin, Crosby, Guentzel, Fleury, Murray, Kessel.

2) **** Baseball, it's a **** sport anyways.

 

[Crosbyfan]

In 2001 for MLB did they share it because they tied? Or because as a pair they were better than everyone else individually? Because if the second that absolutely is a joke...

Why not Karlsson and my dog?

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

According to Vegas it's currently

1. Malkin
2. Guentzel
3. Crosby
4. Murray

Agreed.