Compensatory Pick Question? (re: Fedorov)

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by ginnungagap, Jun 4, 2004.

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  1. ginnungagap

    ginnungagap Registered User

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    Anyone know for sure if Detroit will get a compensatory pick for losing Fedorov as an UFA? My understanding is that they're doled out on a case by case basis with UFAs brought in weighed against those lost. I've also heard, and I'm not sure where or if it was reliable info, that team salary is considered (with the big spenders excluded completely) and that the UFAs brought in are only compared on a one-to-one basis (i.e.- even if a team signed three mid-level UFAs the same compensatory pick would be awarded for losing a big ticket player). I'm not expecting it but I am curious- an extra pick in the middle of the second round sure would be nice.
     
  2. David A. Rainer

    David A. Rainer Registered User

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    They are awarded for Group III UFA only. Each Group III player gets rated by the league according to some formula (which is like 90% driven by the contract signed by the player). Then you add p all the rating points for those lost and for those gained. If you lost more than gained, you get comp pick(s). If you gained more than lost, you get squat.

    As far as I know, team salary does not factor into this, but I don't recall. I seem to remember the Kings getting a comp pick once for losing Luc to Detroit when the Kings were about 10th in league payroll.
     
  3. The Mighty Duck Man

    The Mighty Duck Man R-E-L-A-X

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    I don't think Detroit will get a compensatory pick, mainly because of the Hatcher and Whitney signings. Hatcher and Whitney combine for around $9 million, while Fedorov's salary(not including signing bonus) was $8 million, so I don't think they get one.
     
  4. Word

    Word Registered User

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    As I recall team salary is part of the process. That is the reason why players like Leetch get traded [Edmonton?] for future considerations. The Rangers wouldnt have gotten a compensation pick but the other team would.
     
  5. David A. Rainer

    David A. Rainer Registered User

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    I always thought they did that because they traditionally sign more than they lose, so they wouldn't be getting any comp picks because of their signings. So they trade them to teams that will be getting comp picks.

    I seem to remember the Rangers trading Messier during the offseason to San Jose and then resigning him the same offseason. Here is another example - trade him to a team that will get a draft pick for losing him and get a draft pick yourself (since they wouldn't because a.) they were going to resign their own player; or b.) they were going to sign other Group III and not get a comp pick).

    But like I said, don't quote me on this. It's been a long day at work and I don't feel like whipping out the CBA (it should be somewhere in Exhibit 15 if anyone is so inclined).
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2004
  6. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Team payroll is not a factor. At least not according to the CBA.

    The Rangers knew they wouldn't get compensation for losing Leetch - not because of payroll, but because of their plans to sign big name free agents.
     
  7. KM

    KM Registered User

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    Trading players off before re-signing them is very common and is a loophole that needs to be addressed.
     
  8. Gwyddbwyll

    Gwyddbwyll Registered User

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    90% is a little high? I remember with Roenick, there were a lot of other factors which were taken into consideration (captaincy, all-star appearances, goalscoring) which I think counted for a little more than 10%.

    I dont understand this about rating points lost and gained. It was my understanding that it is merely if the team signs a direct UFA replacement. If they do, then they do not get a pick at all. The way you describe it, it sounds like if Phoenix had signed some crappy replacement, they might still get a comp pick because Roenick's rating points vastly outweigh the scrub's.
     
  9. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    That's actually pretty close to how it works. The Oilers lost Leetch, and signed UFAs like Cross, Oates, and Ulanov, but still expect a compensatory pick, because their "points" don't add up to Leetch's.

    The salary is the most important thing by far. Captaincy, all-star appearances, awards, Cup wins, and age all factor in, but only a very small amount. For example, if a player is the captain of his team, is voted a First Team All-Star, wins the Hart and the Conn Smythe, and goes on to win the Cup, that seems to be worth 110 "points". But if his salary is $5 million a year, that's 50000 "points".
     
  10. David A. Rainer

    David A. Rainer Registered User

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    Exactly!!

    The formula is something like 10 points for Allstar, 20 points for winning the Cup, 30 points for winning the Hart, 10 points for being captain, and so on. But then they take the salary the player signed at, multipy by .01 (Exhibit 15, § 2(a)) and add those as points.

    So it would look someting like this (fictional player):

    Allstar: 20
    Captain: 10
    Won the Cup: 20
    Won the Hart: 30
    Salary of $5M/year: 50,000
    Total Points: 50,070

    And then they repeat this for every single player. A team will get a comp pick in two cases: (i.) add up all the points of those lost and those gained - if lost more than gain, comp picks are awarded; and (ii.) a player lost from one percentile (after ranking each player #1, #2, #3...) is not countered with a gain of a player from an equal or greater percentile. Exhibit § 3(a)(i-ii).

    Anyone who is still doubting this, just look at Exhibit 15 of the CBA.
     
  11. pittengineer

    pittengineer Registered User

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    Detroit will not be rewarded a comp pick for losing federov because they signed whitney and hatcher this past year.
     
  12. Kevin Forbes

    Kevin Forbes Registered User

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    as well as Steve Thomas
     
  13. pittengineer

    pittengineer Registered User

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    I dont believe it will be enough though to warrant a comp pick. 8 + 1.15 + 1.5 = 10.65. 6 + 3.16 + 1 = 10.16. That is not enough to warrant a comp pick. Just because you sign slightly less than you lost doesnt mean detroit gets a comp pick, especially only when the difference is half a million dollars.
     
  14. Motown Beatdown

    Motown Beatdown Need a slump buster

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    Robitaille salary in 2002-2003 was 4.5 million or so. The Wings bought him out for one million dollars. I dont know if that matters or not.
     
  15. garry1221

    garry1221 Registered User

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    Robitaille - 1.15
    Larionov - 1.5
    Fedorov - 10.0
    total 12.65

    Whitney - 3.0
    Hatcher - 5.0
    Thomas - 1.0
    total 9.0 million
     
  16. Motown Beatdown

    Motown Beatdown Need a slump buster

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    Gary i think they average out the contracts. Hatchers average salary is 6 million, while Fedorov is 8 million.
     
  17. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Not necessarily. If Hatcher ends up being in the top five percent, or if Fedorov somehow isn't in the top five percent, then they wouldn't get a pick.

    And the highest awarded compensatory pick isn't necessarily 41st overall.
     
  18. degroat*

    degroat* Guest

     
  19. degroat*

    degroat* Guest

    Hatcher wouldn't have to end up higher than Fedorov, he would just have to end up in the same percentile group. And, unless I'm forgetting someone here Fedorov and Hatcher got the two largest contracts last year so it's safe to say that they will be in the same percentile group and won't be getting a pick for Feds.
     
  20. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    It's true that he doesn't have to be ahead of Fedorov, just in the same group.

    But remember that it's not just free agents taken into account when they're figuring out the groups. It's every player in the league, so getting the two largest contracts last year doesn't necessarily mean they'll both be in the top group.
     
  21. degroat*

    degroat* Guest

    That's right... my bad.

    Even still... Hatcher may still fall within the top 5%... it'll be close.
     
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