Colorado Avalanche trade deadline moves mean less depth in the Top 20

[HF Article]

Photo: The Colorado Avalanche’s top prospect, Mikko Rantanen, has shown elite pro ability in two leagues now and might be key to helping the Avalanche into a playoff berth (courtesy of Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire)


</p>The Colorado Avalanche’s top five prospects are as good as any other team’s in the league but after fifth-ranked Nicolas Meloche the level of talent begins to wane and big question marks appear. The front office targeted defense as a weakness a few years ago, putting emphasis on improving that area at the expense of the forward group. The lack of success in the mid- to late-rounds has not helped the team’s situation.… read more

The post Colorado Avalanche trade deadline moves mean less depth in the Top 20 appeared first on Hockey's Future.



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[5280]

Photo: The Colorado Avalanche’s top prospect, Mikko Rantanen, has shown elite pro ability in two leagues now and might be key to helping the Avalanche into a playoff berth (courtesy of Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire)


</p>The Colorado Avalanche’s top five prospects are as good as any other team’s in the league but after fifth-ranked Nicolas Meloche the level of talent begins to wane and big question marks appear. The front office targeted defense as a weakness a few years ago, putting emphasis on improving that area at the expense of the forward group. The lack of success in the mid- to late-rounds has not helped the team’s situation.… read more

The post Colorado Avalanche trade deadline moves mean less depth in the Top 20 appeared first on Hockey's Future.



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Meh, let's not mention the fact that they overhauled their entire draft philosophy after the 2014 draft and 4 of our top 7 prospects are from the most recent draft or the fact that these top prospects are the best we have had in the cupboard in forever.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I remember when the Avs fired Pracey a large majority of people here were pretty unhappy with that decision.


In hindsight it was definitely the right call. Our drafting record during his time is pretty awful outside of the high end picks.


I really like the way we've drafted since replacing him though. We're doing a lot better job with the later round picks now then we were before.


EDIT: Also interesting to read that Mironov may be coming over the North America this summer? That'd be interesting for the Avs if he signs with us. Could be a bit of a diamond in the rough if his game translates well to NHL ice.

 

[5280]

I remember when the Avs fired Pracey a large majority of people here were pretty unhappy with that decision.


In hindsight it was definitely the right call. Our drafting record during his time is pretty awful outside of the high end picks.


I really like the way we've drafted since replacing him though. We're doing a lot better job with the later round picks now then we were before.

Even though it is the small sample size of one year, it definitely seems to be trending in a good direction.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I remember when the Avs fired Pracey a large majority of people here were pretty unhappy with that decision.


In hindsight it was definitely the right call. Our drafting record during his time is pretty awful outside of the high end picks.


I really like the way we've drafted since replacing him though. We're doing a lot better job with the later round picks now then we were before.


EDIT: Also interesting to read that Mironov may be coming over the North America this summer? That'd be interesting for the Avs if he signs with us. Could be a bit of a diamond in the rough if his game translates well to NHL ice.

CAN he sign with anyone else?

 

[tigervixxxen]

There's no way to pin the whole 2014 draft on Pracey, there were definite traits in there that indicate the FO were asking for certain things. Maybe Pracey made the final call there but they really have nobody to point the finger at besides themselves for giving up on a draft class 1.5 years after selecting them.

It's a good list, a few minor quibbles. I wouldn't include Martinsen and Gormley but I know HF has guidelines for who is/isn't a prospect. Boikov deserves to be mentioned in the top 20 and I feel like the Avs like him too.

 

[tigervixxxen]

CAN he sign with anyone else?

No, that's why we drafted him.

 

[McMetal]

There's no way to pin the whole 2014 draft on Pracey, there were definite traits in there that indicate the FO were asking for certain things. Maybe Pracey made the final call there but they really have nobody to point the finger at besides themselves for giving up on a draft class 1.5 years after selecting them.

It's a good list, a few minor quibbles. I wouldn't include Martinsen and Gormley but I know HF has guidelines for who is/isn't a prospect. Boikov deserves to be mentioned in the top 20 and I feel like the Avs like him too.

How ready is Boikov for the AHL, in your view? I've heard a lot of good things about his game, but I know he's also still pretty young. Is he worth the AHL development time next season or do you see him staying in Juniors for another year?

 

[tigervixxxen]

How ready is Boikov for the AHL, in your view? I've heard a lot of good things about his game, but I know he's also still pretty young. Is he worth the AHL development time next season or do you see him staying in Juniors for another year?

He's going to be 20 so he will be fine for it. The Avs have to bring in some defenseman or another to start developing and I understand Butcher is possible too. The feeling I get from Drummondville is they don't expect him back and then he lands at #9 in the THN Future Watch over quite a few others. He's also likely to get a ATO shot with the Rampage when Drummondvulle gets bounced from the playoffs (unless they pull a major upset). He will have a lot to learn but he's pretty physically imposing in the Q going back another year just would make the gap even bigger. I think he's ready for it.

 

[5280]

There's no way to pin the whole 2014 draft on Pracey, there were definite traits in there that indicate the FO were asking for certain things. Maybe Pracey made the final call there but they really have nobody to point the finger at besides themselves for giving up on a draft class 1.5 years after selecting them.

It's a good list, a few minor quibbles. I wouldn't include Martinsen and Gormley but I know HF has guidelines for who is/isn't a prospect. Boikov deserves to be mentioned in the top 20 and I feel like the Avs like him too.

See, I've seen the argument that Sakic and Roy took over before the 2014 draft and thus that draft was on them too. I really don't buy it. I can't imagine that Roy and Sakic knew all of the prospects in the field and were that hands on for the draft. I have to think they put forth some general guidelines on what they were looking for and Pracey's and Co. went out a there with an idea of what to pick under those guidelines, but ultimately Pracey (and co.) are who decided on each pick. (Except for probably Mackinnon.)


I hate to bring politics into this, but a good analogy to use is the second Iraqi war. Bush started it and when elected Obama decided he didn't agree with it he got out of the situation. Whether or not you agree with the whole idea or not, that is what happened. Can you blame Obama for being in Iraq for the first couple of years of his presidency when it wasn't his idea in the first place? I think the same principle applies here. Roy and Sakic didn't pick Pracey, he just happened to be there when they took over. When they decided he wasn't going to do it for them, they went in a different direction.

Starting the 2015 draft I would place full responsibility on Roykic.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Maybe Pracey was behind picking the leaderiness of Bleackley but S/R wanted a bigger right shot forward. Magyar wasn't small or skilled, Wood was a big raw project (and fits S/R mold of bigger defensemen with a sneaky offensive component), Pepin was a total home run type project from the Q and Nantel, from Rouyn-Noranda no less, was no coincidence. Lindholm really only fits the Pracey pick model and was the one he had the most to say about. I don't think S/R sit there and make the picks themselves but there was definite influence.

 

[5280]

Maybe Pracey was behind picking the leaderiness of Bleackley but S/R wanted a bigger right shot forward. Magyar wasn't small or skilled, Wood was a big raw project (and fits S/R mold of bigger defensemen with a sneaky offensive component), Pepin was a total home run type project from the Q and Nantel, from Rouyn-Noranda no less, was no coincidence. Lindholm really only fits the Pracey pick model and was the one he had the most to say about. I don't think S/R sit there and make the picks themselves but there was definite influence.

I agree that it would be ludicrous to think that they didn't have some influence, probably a lot of influence, but in the end why did they get rid of Pracey if they were happy with the 2014 draft?

 

[henchman21]

I think with the 2013 and 2014 drafts, Pracey was given a direction from the front office, but was given his freedom within that. Same story with Hepple now. MacFarland and the other scouts that have been added might (or might not) have a bit more say now than before too.

My tin foil hat is that Pracey really pushed for Bleackley to be the 2014 1st pick, Sakic and Roy preferred someone else... Sakic and Roy gave in with the idea that it was Pracey's draft to run. Bleackley came into camp out of shape and it was the noose that hung Pracey.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

CAN he sign with anyone else?

They mentioned it in the article that he could chose not to sign with the Avs.


But I have no idea.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Whose this JC Beaudin guy and is his ranking justified according to that article?

 

[ABasin]

I think with the 2013 and 2014 drafts, Pracey was given a direction from the front office, but was given his freedom within that. Same story with Hepple now. MacFarland and the other scouts that have been added might (or might not) have a bit more say now than before too.

My tin foil hat is that Pracey really pushed for Bleackley to be the 2014 1st pick, Sakic and Roy preferred someone else... Sakic and Roy gave in with the idea that it was Pracey's draft to run. Bleackley came into camp out of shape and it was the noose that hung Pracey.

Hench, do you think it could be more than that? I mean, this is pure conjecture here, but could it have been something more than that? Because improving conditioning is a fairly common thing in many sports, for athletes of all ages. Just because Bleackley came into camp in not great shape - at age 18 - would that alone be a reason to sour on a person that young? In and of itself, it seems like a very solvable issue.

Provided Bleackley was willing, of course.

 

[Balthazar]

Photo: Colorado prospect JT Compher might end up as the best part of the return from the Ryan O’Reilly trade (courtesy of Dave Reginek/Getty Images)

So Compher is a possible future bottom 6er and "might end up being the best part of the ROR trade"? Zadorov's stocks fell this low?

 

[henchman21]

Hench, do you think it could be more than that? I mean, this is pure conjecture here, but could it have been something more than that? Because improving conditioning is a fairly common thing in many sports, for athletes of all ages. Just because Bleackley came into camp in not great shape - at age 18 - would that alone be a reason to sour on a person that young? In and of itself, it seems like a very solvable issue.

Provided Bleackley was willing, of course.

It isn't so much Bleackley himself... it is that Pracey probably talked about some of his really good points (hard worker, leader, coachable etc) to justify the pick to Roy and Sakic (which they gave into obviously). Then a couple months late Bleackley comes into camp and proves to Sakic and Roy that those point were just not true (to them anyway). When somebody misses that badly on scouting a kid, it is going to reflect poorly on them and their judgement on scouting as a whole.

I really don't think it was JUST Bleackley that caused Pracey's firing, but I think it very well could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Pracey didn't have the same BPA philosophy, nor draft philosophy in general... hindsight being 20/20 it wasn't going to mesh from the very start because of how differently they view things.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

So Compher is a possible future bottom 6er and "might end up being the best part of the ROR trade"? Zadorov's stocks fell this low?

No, it hasn't.

 

[cgf]

No, it hasn't.

Aww, but it's so much more fun to pretend that it has.

 

[ABasin]

It isn't so much Bleackley himself... it is that Pracey probably talked about some of his really good points (hard worker, leader, coachable etc) to justify the pick to Roy and Sakic (which they gave into obviously). Then a couple months late Bleackley comes into camp and proves to Sakic and Roy that those point were just not true (to them anyway). When somebody misses that badly on scouting a kid, it is going to reflect poorly on them and their judgement on scouting as a whole.

I really don't think it was JUST Bleackley that caused Pracey's firing, but I think it very well could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Pracey didn't have the same BPA philosophy, nor draft philosophy in general... hindsight being 20/20 it wasn't going to mesh from the very start because of how differently they view things.

I agree completely with what you said. However , my question was more in regards to the Avs position on Bleackley, rather than Pracey.

 

[henchman21]

I agree completely with what you said. However , my question was more in regards to the Avs position on Bleackley, rather than Pracey.

I alluded to part of that in my answer, but I shouldn't point it out as it is hearsay. Though I think the biggest reason they decided to move on is that they could hit the reset button and get a player with the #53 pick that they thought was as good... or use that pick for trade bait which they obviously did. If there wasn't compensation involved in letting him go, I'd bet the Avs would have signed him when it came down to it.

 

[Taak19]

The depth is crappy but the Avs are a pretty young team so they have plenty of time to restock. If you take out Stuart/Iggy/Beauch the average age of the team is 25.9 (27.1 with), which is the youngest team in the league.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Whose this JC Beaudin guy and is his ranking justified according to that article?

Are you kidding? Honest question. I talk about him on a weekly basis. Unless you've never been in the prospects thread...

Hench, do you think it could be more than that? I mean, this is pure conjecture here, but could it have been something more than that? Because improving conditioning is a fairly common thing in many sports, for athletes of all ages. Just because Bleackley came into camp in not great shape - at age 18 - would that alone be a reason to sour on a person that young? In and of itself, it seems like a very solvable issue.

Provided Bleackley was willing, of course.

Actually I do. They tend to turn on players that quickly.

So Compher is a possible future bottom 6er and "might end up being the best part of the ROR trade"? Zadorov's stocks fell this low?

Some people are looking at him that way. Not that it's accurate but there's a lot of out of sight out of mind.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Martin and Nantel need more love.

Boikov, Henley, and Everberg (If Martinsen is included, younger than Hishon too) should be on there.

Zadorov can't even get into top20. Seriously though, the rules for who is included and who isn't seems, well, just plain dumb. If you are in the AHL and under a certain age (23/25/UFA?) you are a prospect. Zadorov is definitely young enough to qualify.