Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: OT Points for dayzzzzz

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Actually, the thing that annoys me most about McCann is how little time he spends in what the NHL classifies as high danger i.e. around the net. He spends a lot less time there than all of our other forwards - about half the regular roster is there twice as often. I agree that he's been good at finding the right areas to use that cannon, but his hot streak of form will end and that 19.1% will go down, because its unsustainably high for anyone and particularly someone taking the shots he does, even if he does everything right about taking them.

McCann is just a really weird player. He spends a lot of time looking like a complete spazz... Ie yesterday he had three comical moments again... twice where he just lost the puck for no reason and another time where he was going in on the forecheck and started stumbling with no one around him...

I also don’t see him making his linemates better offensively. Here and there he will make a nice pass, but he’s more TK than Rust in terms of dishing the puck.

All that said, he’s good in his own end and scores timely goals. I’ve just accepted he’s a weirdly effective player and as long as he keeps doing those two things, I won’t have any big issues with him.

 

[spcastlemagic]

Yeah why cant we have the next Point or Panarin or Pasta?

I mean we got Guentzel lol that's not exactly a bad get

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

that line really hasn’t looked all that good since Tanev was removed...I mean Tanev makes every line look better...not sure what the answer is but it’s not the current grouping...

Answer is..

Agozzino - Blueger - Noesen

So the top line for WBS becomes our 4th line. Swapping out Militec for Blueger. Agozzino with 8g 9a in 18gp. And Noesen with 12g 6a in 19 gp. Whats the point in not giving them a chance. Agg is 28 years old and we have him on a 2 year deal. He won't be here longterm, not some prospect who has a long future here. Get him up and take advantage of his solid play. We did call him up once. But still havent given Noesen a contract. Former 21st overall pick who could be the next Brett Connelly for all we know. 26 years old and finally breaking out. Sure its in the AHL and not NHL but hes doubling his totals from previous years. Not just the numbers either its how hes getting them. Completely dominating the AHL, give him a chance. He has the pedigree being a former first round pick. Hes had 145gp in NHL and 160 in AHL...and never came close to these numbers. At 26 he could finally be breaking out. Thats at least worth a 2 way deal so some other team doesnt decide to take him. Pure RW that would replace Tanev on that 4th line.
Honestly someone Id love to see play with Sid too when he comes back but that wont happen. Not unless coaching and scouting in WBS can convince Sully how good hes been playing.

But would allow...

Guentzel - Crosby - Noesen
Kahun - Malkin - Rust
Galchenyuk - McCann - Hornqvist
Tanev - Blueger - Bjugstad

Assuming we keep Bjugstad and he can gel with those 2. Dont think of typical 4th line, we use all 4 the same way like in 2017 . All a threat to score while playing good D. But mainly being able to maintain possession. Stay in the o zone. Thinking Noesen can cut it on line 1 eventually is a stretch of course. But its about giving him a chance on 4th line now while we have these injuries and see what he can do. If he can keep scoring like he is down in the AHL. At a PPG right now when his career is .50 in AHL and .20 in NHL. Hes way above the norm. Let's see if its a fluke or hes like some of these other players we've been seeing recently breaking out at 26-27. He could help get Blueger going. Then give Sid that solid RW but not the "big name" player that Sid loves having on his line lol

Those lines may not look great on paper but could be a great option. It removes ZAR and Simon. Id say Bjusgtad too but with how long hes out I dont see us being able to trade. Maybe being in a completely diff role gets him going. Could swap Hornqvist and Bjugstad if Nick gels better with his Florida teammate , McCann.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I mean we got Guentzel lol that's not exactly a bad get

Yeah I know. And alot still forget about that. And most just thought he'd be a 40 pt player too

The Point was nobody ever really expects us to strike gold. Solid role players are what we usually expect to be the ceiling. Prob from being burned too many times. Thinking Kennedy was going to become more than he panned out to be. Bennett, Tangradi, and plenty of others that we got thru trade...

I never saw greatness with ZAR and Simon. They made some good plays here and there but nothing that showed they could hit that next level. We have been seeing that with McCann and Kahun. Saw it a few times last year with McCann but def was still getting used to being here and was moved around alot. While still improving his game(Florida brought him up at 19). And Kahun had one year in the league, had 13g(37 pts). Not bad at all. And the goals(as well as plays hes made) so far this year should have alot excited about his potential. Both are on the same line too, 2nd line together with Hornqvist. When healthy that's our 3rd line. Getting easier matchups, if Sully gives them the same role that is. Used as scoring line . Not thinking 3rd line has to be a shutdown one and could be like what HBK did.

So they are both seeing more responsibility and are doing great. They arent in the top 6 with Sid and Geno. Benefiting from them. Doing this without. Id look to re-sign at least one of them soon like we did with Guentzel. It may be tough to keep everyone if they keep this up. Yeah they are RFAs which is great but couldnt hurt to get one of them long term on a steal of a deal

 

[spcastlemagic]

Yeah McCann and Kahun are showing signs of being absolute studs. I don't think they will put up splashy numbers, but can round into shape as 50-60 point guys who kill the advanced stats and play great defensive hockey. Frankly in modern hockey a 60 point winger who plays a 200 foot game might be more valuable than a 90 point winger who can drive a powerplay but is prone to laziness five on five.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Lucky for us Kahun has found his game here in the last couple of games. I guess some experts were right in the end to just be a little patient with him!

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If we let Schultz and Chucky walk, don't replace Gudbranson, and move Bjugstad for minimal salary back - or hell, could probably take it all back - we can probably keep all the RFAs. Things will probably change there, but there's a very easy way for it to happen.

Money wise that’s true but I wonder about the backend. Fine with Marino filling out the top 4 at 2RD, but there’s no real in house replacement for the 5 spot.

I’d like to keep them all but I think we’ll need money for that.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

McCann’s #s aren’t sustainable but I’ve been very impressed by his play. And I was skeptical of him last year.

I think he’s driving the bus for his line. No, he’s not a great playmaker or creative but the puck seems to find ways to get north when he’s on the ice.

 

[Shady Machine]

Do we have a goalie controversy?

Jarry is outplaying Murray right now and should see the majority of starts until that changes.

Wether or not that happens is another question

Not sure it needs to be a controversy. Play the hot hand right now and continue reassess as the season progresses.

 

[ImporterExporter]

You don't want to overload Jarry but there is no reason he should be playing less than MM right now. None. The difference in quality of play between the two is massive. Not to mention the team just seems to respond better with TJ in there.

People projecting Murray out on his next long term deal should be dismissed immediately. I want no part of a long term extension for him unless he can consistently show he's worth 6+ M per season.

Jarry was a pretty premium goalie coming out (44th overall). We have more invested in him from a draft capital standpoint and he's obviously cheaper right now. Murray has done nothing this year to deserve the starting nod 3 out of 4 nights.

Ride the hot hand and let Murray work his way back into form, which I hope he does because the last time we had 2 stellar goalies playing for us we won a title.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Yeah McCann and Kahun are showing signs of being absolute studs. I don't think they will put up splashy numbers, but can round into shape as 50-60 point guys who kill the advanced stats and play great defensive hockey. Frankly in modern hockey a 60 point winger who plays a 200 foot game might be more valuable than a 90 point winger who can drive a powerplay but is prone to laziness five on five.

Right.

Another thing I like about this year so far is half of our lineup has missed 10 games or so but putting up a ppg or close to it. Short season(and short playoffs last year) for alot of players after having 3 straight seasons of the opposite.

If this team can get healthy and stay that way we are gonna have fresh legs for the playoffs. Let the Caps , Bruins, Avs, Oilers players dominate the reg season scoring race with their stacked top lines but zero depth.

Oh and Jarry added to our team compared to the last two years of relying solely on Murray(CDS may have been capable but they werent gonna make that switch).

Letang has to stay in lineup now. No more injuries.

Trotman isn't the answer on D but maybe playing him because of that reason. So many injuries to top players..let others get PT and possibly stand out enough to where we can add in a trade or if they get hurt it doesnt impact us. Slowly working Riikola in, letting him learn . i know thats not how Sully operates but i will just choose to look at it that way. Riikola is also a RFA like Marino, Petts, and plenty of forwards. We cant afford to sign them all. If we do want to keep him maybe this is the better route.

 

[Shady Machine]

You don't want to overload Jarry but there is no reason he should be playing less than MM right now. None. The difference in quality of play between the two is massive. Not to mention the team just seems to respond better with TJ in there.

People projecting Murray out on his next long term deal should be dismissed immediately. I want no part of a long term extension for him unless he can consistently show he's worth 6+ M per season.

Jarry was a pretty premium goalie coming out (44th overall). We have more invested in him from a draft capital standpoint and he's obviously cheaper right now. Murray has done nothing this year to deserve the starting nod 3 out of 4 nights.

Ride the hot hand and let Murray work his way back into form, which I hope he does because the last time we had 2 stellar goalies playing for us we won a title.

The draft capital is totally irrelevant. The rest of it is generally fair. I would caution anyone against writing off Murray, but I think it's fair to be skeptical at this point at an expensive long term deal.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

You don't want to overload Jarry but there is no reason he should be playing less than MM right now. None. The difference in quality of play between the two is massive. Not to mention the team just seems to respond better with TJ in there.

People projecting Murray out on his next long term deal should be dismissed immediately. I want no part of a long term extension for him unless he can consistently show he's worth 6+ M per season.

Jarry was a pretty premium goalie coming out (44th overall). We have more invested in him from a draft capital standpoint and he's obviously cheaper right now. Murray has done nothing this year to deserve the starting nod 3 out of 4 nights.

Ride the hot hand and let Murray work his way back into form, which I hope he does because the last time we had 2 stellar goalies playing for us we won a title.

I agree, but also looking way ahead to the playoffs. Id rather have seen Jarry take over in Feb/March and then not look back from there. This early and maybe teams start to figure him out a bit or just get used to him period and he doesn't have that impact we saw Murray have when he won for us. Maybe none of that matters, but I do know it messed with the Caps. Murray beating them year 1 then Fleury year 2. They couldnt score on either of them. Would have loved to go with a 3rd goalie in 2018 lol. CDS could have done it IMO. But well never know. Jarry was supposed to be that guy that year but he wasnt ready. I see him doing it this year, this isnt some fluke. Like I said he already played back in 2018(26 games), and gone thru his ups and downs in NHL/AHL. He struggled when sent down to AHL as well but then turned it around and has been great to start this season. Will be 25 come playoff time...has the pedigree and the experience.

Not to mention hes had to stop 30+ in all 6 starts(has a .940 sv% in every game) with them all being QS. The only other time was the Bruins game where Krug put a perfect shot back in the net with 5 mins left and Marchand hit one off the post and off Jarrys back to win that game. Jarry stopped 12 of 12 shots before that to start the 2nd period of that game til 5 mins left where we came back to take 4-3 lead after being down 3-0.

Hes def showing he can handle high volume of shots.

 

[Flying Dego]

The draft capital is totally irrelevant. The rest of it is generally fair. I would caution anyone against writing off Murray, but I think it's fair to be skeptical at this point at an expensive long term deal.

We are at the point where Jarry is showing starter quality so why not give him closer to half the games. Truly let the two goalies battle. If Murray can't handle that then he doesn't need to be our goalie. If he plays better than great, we have a good problem to solve.

We gain nothing on letting Murray believe he's number 1 regardless of play.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The draft capital is totally irrelevant. The rest of it is generally fair. I would caution anyone against writing off Murray, but I think it's fair to be skeptical at this point at an expensive long term deal.

Murray will be fine...eventually. Hes going thru the same most goalies go thru. It may take a few more years tho before he gets back to what we first saw from him. I hope that doesnt mean we have to move on from him due to contract demands but its a situation thats starting to look very similar to Fleury/Murray. Seattle better not end up with our goalie too. Lol the odds of that...

We'll see how things go the rest of the year, I'm just glad we have Jarry as the other option now which we thought we would have a few years ago. Team isnt forced to hand out a long term deal at 8+mil. And are setup better for a playoff run.

Of all the things this is the most important to happen this season. Doesnt matter how good Rust, McCann, Kahun, Tanev, Marino, etc are to compliment our stars if we dont have the goaltending.

 

[ImporterExporter]

The draft capital is totally irrelevant. The rest of it is generally fair. I would caution anyone against writing off Murray, but I think it's fair to be skeptical at this point at an expensive long term deal.

I just meant that Jarry was drafted to be an NHL starter as a 2nd round pick. He's playing fabulous hockey right now and if it continues there should be a discussion as to who you hitch your wagon to long term. We're not there yet, obviously, but Jarry was drafted as a guy who the team probably felt could replace Fleury.

 

[Shady Machine]

I just meant that Jarry was drafted to be an NHL starter as a 2nd round pick. He's playing fabulous hockey right now and if it continues there should be a discussion as to who you hitch your wagon to long term. We're not there yet, obviously, but Jarry was drafted as a guy who the team probably felt could replace Fleury.

Agree with that. I just don't think it has any relevance in a Jarry vs Murray debate today.

People right to point out lack of consistency with Murray, but that's a common theme among goaltending today. How do we know Jarry won't deal with similar inconsistency? After all, it's been 6 great games and Murray has had stretches longer than that, before struggling.

I say for now, we enjoy how well Jarry is playing and continue to monitor during the season. Play the hot hand and see where it takes you. These decisions can be made in the offseason off of much larger sample sizes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Agree with that. I just don't think it has any relevance in a Jarry vs Murray debate today.

People rightly point out lack of consistency with Murray, but that's a common theme among goaltending today. How do we know Jarry won't deal with similar inconsistency? After all, it's been 6 great games and Murray has had stretches longer than that, before struggling.

I say for now, we enjoy how well Jarry is playing and continue to monitor during the season. Play the hot hand and see where it takes you. These decisions can be made in the offseason off of much larger sample sizes.

I wouldn’t leave Murray behind or trade him like some are advocating. But Jarry is at the age now where most goalies break into the league. Also, AHL is not a good indicator of goalie performance. Many goalies say the A is worse than the NHL given the lack of commitment to systems.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Anybody else see this thread on the main page?

Ranking goalies based on performing relative to shot quality 1/4 way through season

Murray one of the worst starters. Jarry one of the best backups.

Anyone who watched the games w/o looking through 2017 glasses knows this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Jarry has played well this year, but I think any "controversy" comes from Murray playing bad more than Jarry playing great.

 

[Ms Maggie]

you mean the coach who has us playing superb hockey with the most injuries in the NHL right? just to be clear

Amusing, isn't it?

 

[Peat]

Money wise that’s true but I wonder about the backend. Fine with Marino filling out the top 4 at 2RD, but there’s no real in house replacement for the 5 spot.

I’d like to keep them all but I think we’ll need money for that.

Tbh, I think you'd probably have enough change to be able to bring in a 5D if you want providing we don't give everyone top dollar providing your lose the cap of all of that 4. It's a long road but right now, capmageddon is looking like a bit of a damp squib.

 

[Andy99]

I think Jarry has played well this year, but I think any "controversy" comes from Murray playing bad more than Jarry playing great.

agree...it's less Jarry playing great behind a porous defense, than it is Murray regressing from the start of the year behind a very solid defense...Murray lets in more goals than he should

 

[RSPens]

Tanev had a great game, but there was one play where I kind of understand why some people might not be big on him. It was the play where Chucky was about a mile offside. I get that Tanev's motive is to get the puck deep, but he should have noticed Chucky and gave him the puck, or better yet flip it just in front so he could skate into it. It was a minor thing, but Chucky may have walked away with two goals if the pass came. After every good game that Kahun plays, he seems to come back with more confidence. I can totally see Chucky being the same way. Which can only be good for the Pens.

 

[RSPens]

Finally a 3 on 3 win.

Looking at the standings...man the Metropolitan is a BATTLE right now. The good news is we're right in the mix and have been 100% healthy for maybe 2 games. All things considered the first quarter of the season has been very impressive.

Actually I think the Pens have only been 100% healthy for 2 periods all season.