Proposal: COL & OTT (Prospects+Picks Swaps)

[Junohockeyfan]

No. Jost is looking better as a PK player and his 200 foot game is solid but dang that guy doesn’t produce points.

What? He was awful on the PK. That was an achilles heel for the Avs. The only forward that could kill a penalty was Calvert.
Jost was pushed around all series and did very little with his icetime. Its time to pull the plug. I think you know this...

This is why I was proposing Byron to the Avs. It fills a need.

 

[McJedi]

What? He was awful on the PK. That was an achilles heel for the Avs. The only forward that could kill a penalty was Calvert.
Jost was pushed around all series and did very little with his icetime. Its time to pull the plug. I think you know this...

His PK metrics were good. He’s good at it. Kid has a nice 200 foot game. He’s defensively sound with good instincts and effort. But he doesn’t impact the game on the score sheet and yeah... it’s probably time to find him a new home. Nor does he carry much value.

you’re not wrong about the PK. Nieto, PEB, JT.. woof. Bad PK work.

On the other hand, Zadorov was really good in the playoffs. Better than he was in the regular season. Looked like last playoff Zadorov so he’s definitely enhanced his trade value. Now we can decouple them in trades. Z will fetch a nice haul after how well he performed.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

His PK metrics were good. He’s good at it. Kid has a nice 200 foot game. He’s defensively sound with good instincts and effort. But he doesn’t impact the game on the score sheet and yeah... it’s probably time to find him a new home.

On the other hand, Zadorov was really good in the playoffs. Better than the was in the regular season. Looked like last playoff Zadorov so he’s definitely enhanced his trade value. Now we can decouple them in trades. Z will fetch a nice haul after how well he performed.

Nothing has changed with Z. He’s still wildly inconsistent and will cost over 3.2M to re-sign. He is not a top4 dman. That said i can see teams with old school gms interested due to his size and toughness.

Jost in my opinion does not have the tools to be a top6 forward. The game has been getting faster and Jost can’t skate. He has no toughness and is small. Can’t win a faceoff. Where can you play him? The Avs made a mistake drafting him so early.

 

[McJedi]

Nothing has changed with Z. He’s still wildly inconsistent and will cost over 3.2M to re-sign. He is not a top4 dman. That said i can see teams with old school gms interested due to his size and toughness.

Jost in my opinion does not have the tools to be a top6 forward. The game has been getting faster and Jost can’t skate. He has no toughness and is small. Can’t win a faceoff. Where can you play him? The Avs made a mistake drafting him so early.

jost is no top 6 forward. You got that right. He’s pick that isn’t going to pan out. 2016 draft was pretty weak and he’s one of the many underwhelming forwards. He looks like a bottom six guy that will have a nondescript 12 or so year career on 3 or 4 teams.

Zadorov is a solid number 5. Great hitter. Solid skater. Hard shot. Can’t pass. So so instincts. You’d want him at no more than 3mm AAV. I bet we’ll get a 2nd plus something for him given the size and good playoff performances. He’s risen his game when it matters most two years in a row. He’s like the opposite of Domi.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

jost is no top 6 forward. You got that right. He’s pick that isn’t going to pan out. 2016 draft was pretty weak and he’s one of the many underwhelming forwards. He looks like a bottom six guy that will have a nondescript 12 or so year career on 3 or 4 teams.

I agree with this. Which is why i think you (Avs fans) should call out other Avs fans when they propose a Jost for Tierney deal.

i call out Habs fans when they propose Domi+ for Laine, when the plus doesn’t include Suzuki and Romanov... Gotta have some measure of reason.

 

[McJedi]

I agree with this. Which is why i think you (Avs fans) should call out other Avs fans when they propose a Jost for Tierney deal.

i call out Habs fans when they propose Domi+ for Laine, when the plus doesn’t include Suzuki and Romanov...

Domi really underwhelmed with his most recent season and that meager playoff performance. Habs definitely not trading him on a high note this off season. Also curious why Danault is trying to talk his way out of town because a few of the young guys played well in the bubble. That I don’t get. Maybe Domi wants out and isn’t suited to play in a pressure cooker like Montreal. but why danault? He’s a good fit for the Habs.

 

[Richard88]

I agree with this. Which is why i think you (Avs fans) should call out other Avs fans when they propose a Jost for Tierney deal.

i call out Habs fans when they propose Domi+ for Laine, when the plus doesn’t include Suzuki and Romanov... Gotta have some measure of reason.

I didnt propose a Jost for Tierney deal. Again, it was a Sens fan who proposed it. I said a pick would be added.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

No. Jost is looking better as a PK player and his 200 foot game is solid but dang that guy doesn’t produce points.

This was also his 21 year old season. He wouldn't be the first guy to figure out his offensive game at 22 or 23. If he can become a 40 point guy, instead of 25-30, he could be a solid 3rd liner for at least a couple more seasons. And those seasons should be relatively cheap, due to his lower point totals to date.

 

[McJedi]

I agree with this. Which is why i think you (Avs fans) should call out other Avs fans when they propose a Jost for Tierney deal.

i call out Habs fans when they propose Domi+ for Laine, when the plus doesn’t include Suzuki and Romanov... Gotta have some measure of reason.

Avs fans don’t like Jost. I think when he’s traded, they’ll breathe a sigh of relief. Jost may too. It’s a marriage that hasn’t worked out.
He’s just one of our players we’d be ok seeing leave. Probably the main one. We’ll get what we get in return that will be that. It won’t be a bonanza. That’s for sure.

 

[Richard88]

His PK metrics were good. He’s good at it. Kid has a nice 200 foot game. He’s defensively sound with good instincts and effort. But he doesn’t impact the game on the score sheet and yeah... it’s probably time to find him a new home. Nor does he carry much value.

you’re not wrong about the PK. Nieto, PEB, JT.. woof. Bad PK work.

On the other hand, Zadorov was really good in the playoffs. Better than he was in the regular season. Looked like last playoff Zadorov so he’s definitely enhanced his trade value. Now we can decouple them in trades. Z will fetch a nice haul after how well he performed.

Jost was certainly not the problem on the PK. His PK metrics and defensive analytics are really good.

Losing Johnson and Calvert hurt us a lot on the PK. Statistically Compher is a bad PKer as well.

 

[McJedi]

This was also his 21 year old season. He wouldn't be the first guy to figure out his offensive game at 22 or 23. If he can become a 40 point guy, instead of 25-30, he could be a solid 3rd liner for at least a couple more seasons. And those seasons should be relatively cheap, due to his lower point totals to date.

It’s possible I suppose. But his shooting sucks. He’s not at all an accurate shooter. Not a dynamic passer either. I think he’s got some good overall tools but dang. He doesn’t impact the score sheet at all.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Domi really underwhelmed with his most recent season and that meager playoff performance. Habs definitely not trading him on a high note this off season. Also curious why Danault is trying to talk his way out of town because a few of the young guys played well in the bubble. That I don’t get. Maybe Domi wants out but why danault. He’s a good fit for the Habs.

All Danault said was that he doesn’t want to be only a defensive center. He’s absolutely right. The Habs won’t put him in that spot next season. Kotkaniemi never took his spot. Bergevin ensured the kids got prime playing time and linemates in the playins. They weren’t supposed to beat the Pens. f***ing Price did us in. But the kids for valuable experience that will bode well for next season. Danault will be back to 2C with Tatar and Gally. That’s a given cuz Gally/Tatar were unproductive without Danault.

Domi should be traded. He is a top-6 center or a bottom 6 winger. He just doesn’t produce on the wing and Habs have Suzuki, Danault and KK earmarked as our C’a. Domi will be traded imo. The return? Not sure but hopefully a top6 winger.

 

[Richard88]

Avs fans don’t like Jost. I think when he’s traded, they’ll breathe a sigh of relief. Jost may too. It’s a marriage that hasn’t worked out.
He’s just one of our players we’d be ok seeing leave. Probably the main one. We’ll get what we get in return that will be that. It won’t be a bonanza. That’s for sure.

He should have had amother year in college, and possibly a year in the AHL to refine his offense. He would have been a rookie this season and people would be more patient with him. Having played 3 years before 22 has raised expectations but he's still really young.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I didnt propose a Jost for Tierney deal. Again, it was a Sens fan who proposed it. I said a pick would be added.

it would cost more than a 2nd round pick with Jost and even then I don’t see the Sens having interest in Jost. Sens are moving to a speed game. All teams in the east are moving to speed.

 

[McJedi]

All Danault said was that he doesn’t want to be only a defensive center. He’s absolutely right. The Habs won’t put him in that spot next season. Kotkaniemi never took his spot. Bergevin ensured the kids got prime playing time and linemates in the playins. They weren’t supposed to beat the Pens. f***ing Price did us in. But the kids for valuable experience that will bode well for next season. Danault will be back to 2C with Tatar and Gally. That’s a given cuz Gally/Tatar were unproductive without Danault.

Domi should be traded. He is a top-6 center or a bottom 6 winger. He just doesn’t produce on the wing and Habs have Suzuki, Danault and KK earmarked as our C’a. Domi will be traded imo. The return? Not sure but hopefully a top6 winger.

doubt it on Domi. Unless you’re very flexible on the definition of a top 6 winger. More like middle six winger. He won’t be fetching a top 10 pick or a guy the caliber of Elhers. He’s not under contract either. Another strike on him. Unless MB is ready to be underwhelmed by offers, best to bring him back and see if his value can be rehabilitated. But seeing him play an occasional playoff 4th line role with such disinterest won’t leave a good taste in anyone’s mouth. He looked and played like a guy having less fun in the playoffs than any other Hab. Drouin included.

you have a similar problem to the Avs. The guys you’d be most comfortable trading are carrying less trade value today than in the past. Which gives MB little ammo to push a favorable trade.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

doubt it on Domi. Unless you’re very flexible on the definition of a top 6 winger. More like middle six winger. He won’t be fetching a top 10 pick or a guy the caliber of Elhers. He’s not under contract either. Another strike on him. Unless MB is ready to be underwhelmed by offers, best to bring him back and see if his value can be rehabilitated. But seeing him play an occasional playoff 4th line role with such disinterest won’t leave a good taste in anyone’s mouth. He looked and played like a guy having less fun in the playoffs than any other Hab. Drouin included.

you have a similar problem to the Avs. The guys you’d be most comfortable trading are carrying less trade value today than in the past.

Domi is a 2C - there is no question about that. The problem is he is a better C than he is a winger and that’s a problem for the Habs. We need Domi to be a top6 winger. He’s not. He’s a pass first play driver made for C.

he will have good value via trade for the following reasons.

1. He’s 23!with 2 more years of rfa status.
2. He’s a 2C. C’s generally have more value than wingers and are in demand.
3. He has demonstrated that under the right circumstances he can produce top line points.
4. At worst he will produce at least 50pts at C
5. He is a pest that is tough

The only potential downside is his ask. But no one knows what that is. He will likely sign a short term deal. Habs should trade him as we need a winger for Kotkaniemi.

I can see a Domi for Josh Anderson + deal. Habs fans would hate it. But its a MB type of deal.

 

[McJedi]

Domi is a 2C - there is no question about that. The problem is he is a better C than he is a winger and that’s a problem for the Habs. We need Domi to be a top6 winger. He’s not. He’s a pass first play driver made for C.

he will have good value via trade for the following reasons.

1. He’s 23!with 2 more years of rfa status.
2. He’s a 2C. C’s generally have more value than wingers and are in demand.
3. He has demonstrated that under the right circumstances he can produce top line points.
4. At worst he will produce at least 50pts at C
5. He is a pest that is tough

The only potential downside is his ask. But no one knows what that is. He will likely sign a short term deal. Habs should trade him as we need a winger for Kotkaniemi.

Max Domi is 25 and 1/2 dude. He’s got RFA status but let’s not make things up. He’s not a 2C on a good team. He’s a 2C on a bad team. On a good team, he’s 3rd liner that is a 50 point player with questionable goal scoring capacity. Is he a 17 goal guy or 28 goal guy? He isn’t much of a defender either. Dude looked like he was allergic to back checking in the playoffs. Was floating around far too much.

he’s also a type one diabetic. He’s managed that fine to date but it’s something a medical staff will note. Plus if he’s traded again, he gets that stigma of a guy that isn’t core. You’re overselling him the way Avs fans try to oversell our island of misfit toy players. I’m not buying and I don’t think other GMs will either. You’ll be disappointed with what Domi fetches if MB does pull the trigger in November on a trade.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Max Domi is 25 and 1/2 dude. He’s got RFA status but let’s not make things up. He’s not a 2C on a good team. He’s a 2C on a bad team. On a good team, he’s 3rd liner that is a 50 point player with questionable goal scoring capacity. Is he a 17 goal guy or 28 goal guy? He isn’t much of a defender either. Dude looked like he was allergic to back checking in the playoffs. Was floating around far too much.

he’s also a type one diabetic. He’s managed that fine to date but it’s something a medical staff will note. Plus if he’s traded again, he gets that stigma of a guy that isn’t core. You’re overselling him the way Avs fans try to overall our island of misfit toy players.

Finger slip - he’s

Max Domi is 25 and 1/2 dude. He’s got RFA status but let’s not make things up. He’s not a 2C on a good team. He’s a 2C on a bad team. On a good team, he’s 3rd liner that is a 50 point player with questionable goal scoring capacity. Is he a 17 goal guy or 28 goal guy? He isn’t much of a defender either. Dude looked like he was allergic to back checking in the playoffs. Was floating around far too much.

he’s also a type one diabetic. He’s managed that fine to date but it’s something a medical staff will note. Plus if he’s traded again, he gets that stigma of a guy that isn’t core. You’re overselling him the way Avs fans try to oversell our island of misfit toy players. I’m not buying and I don’t think other GMs will either. You’ll be disappointed with what Domi fetches if MB does pull the trigger in November on a trade.

finger slip - 25 years old but still has rfa status. You don’t think he can be traded for a top6 winger?

Do we just ignore prior season with 72 points and averaging 53 pts? Do we ignore that young 2C‘S are in demand?

i can see MB getting decent value. His playins will hurt. Diabetic - he has not had issues that i am aware of due to it.

Its not like he has concussion issues.

 

[McJedi]

Finger slip - he’s


finger slip - 25 years old but still has rfa status. You don’t think he can be traded for a top6 winger?

Not a good one. For instance, he’s not fetching a player the level of Rakell or Burakovsky. You’ll need to aim lower. That no goal, 3 point playoff output and low intensity bubble performance did MB zero favors in moving domi this offseason. He wasn’t nearly as good in the regular season either as he was the year prior. Domi has one really good nhl season under his belt. And it wasn’t this past one either. So no pretending like you’re trading a 72 point guy. That ship sailed a while ago. Now it’s a 50 point guy with more questions than answers about fit, attitude, playoff chops and defensive aptitude n

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It’s possible I suppose. But his shooting sucks. He’s not at all an accurate shooter. Not a dynamic passer either. I think he’s got some good overall tools but dang. He doesn’t impact the score sheet at all.

He's getting 4th line minutes with a rotating cast of linemates and scoring about the same number of points as PEB and Nieto. I'm not really expecting him to score 60 points with that usage, and his defense is decent for a 21 year old kid playing against men. I think there's potential for him to be a solid 3rd liner, with a little more development, and an outside chance at more. And, like I said, he should be relatively cheap, so playing him in the bottom 6 isn't a waste of cap space.

 

[McJedi]

He's getting 4th line minutes with a rotating cast of linemates and scoring about the same number of points as PEB and Nieto. I'm not really expecting him to score 60 points with that usage, and his defense is decent for a 21 year old kid playing against men. I think there's potential for him to be a solid 3rd liner, with a little more development, and an outside chance at more. And, like I said, he should be relatively cheap, so playing him in the bottom 6 isn't a waste of cap space.

All fair points. And I agree. Jost has the potential to become a good 3rd liner. Not what he want with a 10th overall pick but his defensive and possession chops make him a viable NHLer.

he’s no mega bust like Poolparty or Lias Anderson. But I also can’t pretend I’m not underwhelmed. Because I’m underwhelmed.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Not a good one. For instance, he’s not fetching a player the level of Rakell or Burakovsky. You’ll need to aim lower. That no goal, 3 point playoff output and low intensity bubble performance did MB zero favors in moving domi this offseason. He wasn’t nearly as good in the regular season either as he was the year prior. Domi has one really good nhl season under his belt. And it wasn’t this past one either. So no pretending like you’re trading a 72 point guy. That ship sailed a while ago. Now it’s a 50 point guy with more questions than answers.

Domi has paced for 50+ point seasons except for 1 year where he had 45. You can call that 1 year an anomaly.

How many 53pt C’s who have potential to put up 70 points are available that still have rfa status? He came into the playins without any practice games as he was a late addition due to mulling over potential danger due to diabetes.

i think there will be demand. Easily a top6 winger. A 50 plus point winger.

The only concern i have is his ask.

Like i said i can see a trade with CBJ for Josh Anderson +.

 

[McJedi]

Domi has paced for 50+ point seasons except for 1 year where he had 45. You can call that 1 year an anomaly.

How many 53pt C’s who have potential to put up 70 points are available that still have rfa status? He came into the playins without any practice games as he was a late addition due to mulling over potential danger due to diabetes.

i think there will be demand. Easily a top6 winger. A 50 plus point winger.

The only concern i have is his ask.

Like i said i can see a trade with CBJ for Josh Anderson +.

If your definition of top six winger is flexible, you may get it. I’m guessing a change of scenery trade like an Anderson or maybe a Buchnevich with minor adds to Montreal.

if your definition is an Elhers or a Rackell, you’re smoking something too strong. Unless the Habs are adding something meaningful.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If you’re definition of top six winger is flexible, you may get it. I’m guessing a change of scenery trade like an Anderson or maybe a Buchnevich.

if you’re definition is an Elhers or a Rackell, you’re smoking something too strong.

Not comparing to Ehlers or Rackell - they have more value. I can see Josh Anderson + only due to intangibles of Josh that the Habs could use.

That said, i am low on Domi compared to most Habs fans. But not so low that I would accept quantity for quality.

 

[Rumplesnipeskin]

Coles disgraceful bubble performance was shocking because he did play just fine in the regular season. Graves was fantastic in the regular season but both these players were much worse in that bubble. Cole in particular was just unplayable for most of the tournament and his lack of ice time reflected Bednars dissatisfaction with Coles performances. His turnovers were many and the inaccurate passing was a nightmare. He wasn’t blocking shots and certainly wasn’t clearing the net. He didn’t do a single thing well and didn’t play a single great game in the bubble. Most nights he wasn’t even a passable player. As a 3rd pairing, it still fell well short of acceptable play. Maybe he just didn’t want to be there and never mentally was. His play reflected a disinterested and distracted player. His effort level was dubious. If the bubble Cole or the bubble Graves shows up next season, that’s a player that needs to spend his games in the press box.

Cole’s performance was nothing short of disgraceful, and I’m the very first to say that in previous years he was a top defenseman in the playoffs, despite abhorrent play in the regular season.

Graves is a decent second pairing defenseman, and I think that’s where he’ll play for his career. I prefer Zads to Graves for that reason; in the end, Zads plays a role better, and neither is skilled enough to transcend a role-playing archetype.

minor tweaks, but I like the idea of Graves to a team for a speedy, power forward prospect and maybe a pick or two on top.