Torts Reform: Coaching Discussion Thread III

[Viqsi]

Re New Title: Political Correctness or Wishful Thinking?

More along the lines of Viqsi Not Wanting To Get A Billion Complaints About How The Title Assumes We Should Keep Torts By Naming Him.

Which of course has backfired horribly.

 

[pscbj80]

I went from letting him coach through the season to wanting him gone because of this last stretch and the team needing to seek out a new voice. However, this article make the belief that he makes it through the season whether fans want him to or not seem likely.

 

[GoJackets1]

There is absolutely no reason , with the lineup of centers on our roster , and Domi struggling to find a fit here , who was signed to come in and play #2 center role , that he isn’t given a week or so centering Laine, and Bjork , and see what comes from it . Clearly with Domi he has 0 confidence , he’s seeing ghost is what they would say of he was a quarterback . The kid is a talented player , and I refuse to accept he forgot how to play hockey the moment he was traded here . Looking at Karlsson , and now Wennberg , it sure seems that either Torts and his micromanaging of players , or his system and how they implement the center play is a huge issue . We saw Torts prop up Cam to play with Laine to get him going , why not give a few games to Domi at center with Bjork and Laine to see if you can get him going .

Also , Jenner is a very solid center , and for whatever reason they haven’t even tried him there this season , with all the deficiencies at the center position

Because veterans who have been on Torts' teams for awhile and/or earned his trust are not held to the same standard of accountability as younger guys who have not been. Therefore they also are not afforded the same opportunities- we see it time and time again. So far, Bjork has been the only young guy to break out of it, which is extremely good on him. There have been so many instances of this accountability difference just this year. Just yesterday, Cam made 2 ridiculously boneheaded plays on a PP on the same shift, including a no-look bank pass to absolutely nobody, and played 22 minutes. Domi, Bemstrom, Texier, etc have missed shifts for less.

This is one of the reasons I want Torts gone, but not my main reason. The main reasons are his purely defensive system that apparently no longer works, inability/unwillingness to construct a proper offensive system for the modern NHL, piss-poor adaptability, and refusal to change up the PP strategy when it hasn't worked for 3-4 years now, despite having players (even prior to Laine) that should make it a top half PP in the league. That, and the team is putting forth effort like they want Torts gone.

Torts came in and did exactly what he was supposed to do with the CBJ and I will be forever grateful to him. I think the team is good enough to now need a solid X's & O's guy that can develop players offensively, and take the team to the next level, instead of just a hard-ass culture change coach, which is what Torts is. Problem is, I'm not convinced that there are that many good candidates available for hire. That said, I think they still need to give it a shot.

I'm okay with keeping him through the end of the season, if Jarmo doesn't think that Brad Shaw is a legitimate candidate to replace him.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The Good News: I will spend zero dollars on this team for the rest of this season.

The Bad News: They already have my money for next season and I really have zero reason to believe next year will be any better.

 

[stonec]

Can't put too much blame (or any, really) on the coaching with the center situation being what it currently is. With regards to the current group of centermen, we have a saying in Finnish that is very fitting here: "Paskasta ei saa timanttia."

You can put some indirect blame on the coaching though. Before the season, Columbus center depth chart as the GM envisioned was: PLD, Domi, Koivu/Grigorenko/Nash. In other words, a franchise number one center, Domi, who still played most of his games in the center position as number two, Koivu as an experienced center in a more defensive role and one of the upcoming talents centering the fourth line. With Koivu mysteriously retiring seven games in, Domi moved to the winger position and the PLD situation escalating, it basically changed three of the four intended starters. Through these changes, they basically lost all the experience they had down the middle.

 

[Viqsi]

You can put some indirect blame on the coaching though.

I read this and I say to myself "how?" and keep going...

Before the season, Columbus center depth chart as the GM envisioned was: PLD, Domi, Koivu/Grigorenko/Nash. In other words, a franchise number one center, Domi, who still played most of his games in the center position as number two, Koivu as an experienced center in a more defensive role and one of the upcoming talents centering the fourth line. With Koivu mysteriously retiring seven games in, Domi moved to the winger position and the PLD situation escalating, it basically changed three of the four intended starters. Through these changes, they basically lost all the experience they had down the middle.

...and yet after reading the rest of this post, I'm still not seeing an answer to that question. I mean, yeah, that's a decent enough sum-up of what happened to the center depth, but there's nothing in there that talks about coaching influence at all.

 

[MissADD]

Despite how bad this season is, I don't see it as a problem going forward, yet. It all depends on how management responds. With Jarmo not ready to fire Torts that leads me to believe that the coach he wants as his replacement isn't in the organization. The question is who is that person?

 

[Grouchy]

A co-worker, a big Penguins fan, just asked me if the CBJ were going to fire Torts. I stated I had no idea, then asked why he was asking. He said Torts would be the perfect coach for the Pens right now.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I read this and I say to myself "how?" and keep going...


...and yet after reading the rest of this post, I'm still not seeing an answer to that question. I mean, yeah, that's a decent enough sum-up of what happened to the center depth, but there's nothing in there that talks about coaching influence at all.

Did this coaching staff help acclimate Domi to playing center in their system or just give up on him there after 12 games? Is it better to get Domi & Texier games in the middle or to keep trying Jenner and Foligno there instead? Have they tried Grigorenko at center at all?

For a "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" coaching style when it comes to the lines, they seem to really want to avoid some fairly obvious things to try there.

OP may have been referencing the coaching staff's style leading to PLD's trade request and Koivu's retirement, though.

 

[Viqsi]

Did this coaching staff help acclimate Domi to playing center in their system or just give up on him there after 12 games? Is it better to get Domi & Texier games in the middle or to keep trying Jenner and Foligno there instead? Have they tried Grigorenko at center at all?

For a "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" coaching style when it comes to the lines, they seem to really want to avoid some fairly obvious things to try there.

OP may have been referencing the coaching staff's style leading to PLD's trade request and Koivu's retirement, though.

Your speculation is noted. I was hoping to know why that poster held that position, though.

 

[NotWendell]

A co-worker, a big Penguins fan, just asked me if the CBJ were going to fire Torts. I stated I had no idea, then asked why he was asking. He said Torts would be the perfect coach for the Pens right now.

Sullivan is a disciple of Torts, so I don't think that would make a lot of sense for them.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Did this coaching staff help acclimate Domi to playing center in their system or just give up on him there after 12 games? Is it better to get Domi & Texier games in the middle or to keep trying Jenner and Foligno there instead? Have they tried Grigorenko at center at all?

For a "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" coaching style when it comes to the lines, they seem to really want to avoid some fairly obvious things to try there.

OP may have been referencing the coaching staff's style leading to PLD's trade request and Koivu's retirement, though.

Pretty common sense response . Center position seems to be the rallying cry excuse , you bring Domi in for #2 c job , while team was playing like crap, you give him 10 games as start of season with different line mates most shifts , and give up on it ?

Then, if you were to say who was the next best center on the roster , you had Texier that started as gangbusters , had a few game rough patch , gets moved to wing , loses all confidence , and has been rather invisible since ... Jenner would be the next best center in my mind for this team, yet he hasn’t been tried this yr .

 

[DarkandStormy]

Pretty common sense response . Center position seems to be the rallying cry excuse , you bring Domi in for #2 c job , while team was playing like crap, you give him 10 games as start of season with different line mates most shifts , and give up on it ?

Then, if you were to say who was the next best center on the roster , you had Texier that started as gangbusters , had a few game rough patch , gets moved to wing , loses all confidence , and has been rather invisible since ... Jenner would be the next best center in my mind for this team, yet he hasn’t been tried this yr .

Texier played 7:58 last game. Can't imagine why his confidence would be down.

 

[NotWendell]

Pretty common sense response . Center position seems to be the rallying cry excuse , you bring Domi in for #2 c job , while team was playing like crap, you give him 10 games as start of season with different line mates most shifts , and give up on it ?

Then, if you were to say who was the next best center on the roster , you had Texier that started as gangbusters , had a few game rough patch , gets moved to wing , loses all confidence , and has been rather invisible since ... Jenner would be the next best center in my mind for this team, yet he hasn’t been tried this yr .

That's the kind of question the media should be asking.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I continue to believe that firing Torts just for the sake of change and promoting Shaw or Larsen is dumb.

Maybe jarmo believes the same.

it’s almost assured that torts won’t be back. But I’m somewhat happy he will finish the year here. He deserves it. Hopefully it won’t impact Jones Werenski or Laine staying

 

[NotWendell]

Everyone on the team is afraid to make mistakes. If anything, they might be getting OVERCOACHED. I'd be tempted to say "Tell you what boys, just go out and play. If you f**k up, no one is going to say s**t to you tonight. No one is going to take away your ice time. Just go play the game."

 

[Viqsi]

Sullivan is a disciple of Torts, so I don't think that would make a lot of sense for them.

Maybe they just think they need a voice refresh. If that's the case, maybe we could swap coaches for a year or something.

 

[Viqsi]

Everyone on the team is afraid to make mistakes. If anything, they might be getting OVERCOACHED. I'd be tempted to say "Tell you what boys, just go out and play. If you f**k up, no one is going to say s**t to you tonight. No one is going to take away your ice time. Just go play the game."

That was last Thursday.
John Tortorella, resident yogi? Tense Blue Jackets seek to inject some fun

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

There, there The Fifth Laine; it's going to be OK. It's all going to be OK lol.

 

[NotWendell]

I continue to believe that firing Torts just for the sake of change and promoting Shaw or Larsen is dumb.

Maybe jarmo believes the same.

it’s almost assured that torts won’t be back. But I’m somewhat happy he will finish the year here. He deserves it. Hopefully it won’t impact Jones Werenski or Laine staying

All that could be accomplished if Torts announces his retirement effective the end of the season.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I wonder how we would play if Torts gave constructive criticism instead of demoting to the 5th line

It would be entertaining to have Torts let the team run around like a bunch of rarely let-out, caged animals.

 

[DJA]

I continue to believe that firing Torts just for the sake of change and promoting Shaw or Larsen is dumb.

Maybe jarmo believes the same.

it’s almost assured that torts won’t be back. But I’m somewhat happy he will finish the year here. He deserves it. Hopefully it won’t impact Jones Werenski or Laine staying

You gonna change your mind again when we lose to Detroit?

 

[majormajor]

The players either aren't getting clear instruction from Torts or they are not following them.

With this level of intolerable disarray there is no point in even having a coach. If Jarmo is banking on a turnaround coming soon, then sure, see what happens. But I don't agree with keeping Torts on to play out the string like this if they're going to keep playing this way. It's a bad environment for the players, for talent retention and for learning for the younger guys.

Depends on your definition of "shaking up", I guess. They look like they're sleepwalking to me and need a wake up call.

I guarantee Jarmo won't stand by one way or the other, though.

They're panicking not sleepwalking. They look like chickens running around with their heads cut off.

They need a trade but not just a shake up trade. I think getting rid of Domi and adding a decent solid center (not necessarily a costly one) would make a big improvement for this club.

 

[NotWendell]

They're panicking not sleepwalking. They look like chickens running around with their heads cut off.

They need a trade but not just a shake up trade. I think getting rid of Domi and adding a decent solid center (not necessarily a costly one) would make a big improvement for this club.

Spot on!

 

[majormajor]

I continue to believe that firing Torts just for the sake of change and promoting Shaw or Larsen is dumb.

Maybe jarmo believes the same.

it’s almost assured that torts won’t be back. But I’m somewhat happy he will finish the year here. He deserves it. Hopefully it won’t impact Jones Werenski or Laine staying

Dumb because what? You think it's possible that they can play even worse? I'm not sure if that is possible.

In other words, when it is this bad, what do you have to lose?