Coach Discussion: Dan Bylsma

[Woodhouse]

Thread's needed to discuss head coach Dan Bylsma. Have at it.

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[SECRET SQUIRREL]

Bylsma is the ****ing worst ever.... Boring and ****** 90's grinder hockey makes me hate being a Sabres fan and I love everything hockey, beyond depressing �� <--- (that's a suicide emoji)

 

[stokes84]

I'm pretty tired of hearing about system. Everyone in the NHL runs the same things. There isn't some magic formula. If you want to whine about Bylsma, whine about how he rides his players into the ground so they aren't useful at the end of the game/season.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I'm pretty tired of hearing about system. Everyone in the NHL runs the same things. There isn't some magic formula. If you want to whine about Bylsma, whine about how he rides his players into the ground so they aren't useful at the end of the game/season.

Bylsma won a cup and had the most wins of any coach from when he was hire to fired. Imagine if his system worked.

 

[Aladyyn]

Bylsma won a cup and had the most wins of any coach from when he was hire to fired. Imagine if his system worked.

He didn't win a Cup with his system

 

[Sabre Dance]

He didn't win a Cup with his system

Was he using Babcock's system?

 

[kirby11]

Was he using Babcock's system?

Crosby and Malkin almost single handedly won the cup for Pittsburgh that year. They wouldn't have won if those two hadn't played out of their minds for at least half the postseason and nearly all of the Finals.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Crosby and Malkin almost single handedly won the cup for Pittsburgh that year. They wouldn't have won if those two hadn't played out of their minds for at least half the postseason and nearly all of the Finals.

I've yet to see any coach win a cup without elite players.

 

[kirby11]

I've yet to see any coach win a cup without elite players.

True. I should've been clearer, I meant that bylsmas system wasn't really the key to victory. Crosby and Malkin went superhero mode, but not because of bylsmas system, they were just that good during that particular Cup run.

 

[Sabre Dance]

True. I should've been clearer, I meant that bylsmas system wasn't really the key to victory. Crosby and Malkin went superhero mode, but not because of bylsmas system, they were just that good during that particular Cup run.

It's a players league, much like NBA. Coaches are important, but talent wins over any system. I know people will disagree, but this team without Eichel is probably a bottom 5 NHL team. That's not good. It shows how bad the roster is, and honestly the entire organization from Rochester to Buffalo is a mess because of Tim Murray.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

In a league green lighting it's young offensive defensemen, Risto plays the most difficult minutes of his peers by a ludicrous margin.

The scheme avoiding valuable real estate in the offensive zone is more frustrating than the breakout.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'm pretty tired of hearing about system. Everyone in the NHL runs the same things. There isn't some magic formula. If you want to whine about Bylsma, whine about how he rides his players into the ground so they aren't useful at the end of the game/season.

Uh no, stokes, every team in the NHL doesn't run the same systems.

That you actually believe that tells everyone all we need to know about why you hold the misguided opinion you do or did.

Most of you opinions are centered around getting players with the elite physical tools, and that's the only way to glory.

Except that coaching changes mid season, along with a new system, is exactly how Chicago and LA won their first Cups. Same players, different result. How does that happen again?

Sullivan comes into Pittsburgh, implements a tempo system, and the Pens win the Cup without any major in season play acquisitions.

How'd that happen?

Systems matter and they are different.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Uh no, stokes, every team in the NHL doesn't run the same systems.

That you actually believe that tells everyone all we need to know about why you hold the misguided opinion you do or did.

Most of you opinions are centered around getting players with the elite physical tools, and that's the only way to glory.

Except that coaching changes mid season, along with a new system, is exactly how Chicago and LA won their first Cups. Same players, different result. How does that happen again?

Sullivan comes into Pittsburgh, implements a tempo system, and the Pens win the Cup without any major in season play acquisitions.

How'd that happen?

Systems matter and they are different.

The problem I'm having with the system argument is we have nothing to compare it to, yet. People are so sure it's the system. I would like to find out.

We all knew the Penguins had talent to win.

 

[Jame]

The problem I'm having with the system argument is we have nothing to compare it to, yet. People are so sure it's the system. I would like to find out.

We can start with the rest of the league.

 

[Sabre Dance]

We can start with the rest of the league.

Do we have the D talent to play an uptempo system?

 

[stokes84]

Uh no, stokes, every team in the NHL doesn't run the same systems.

That you actually believe that tells everyone all we need to know about why you hold the misguided opinion you do or did.

Most of you opinions are centered around getting players with the elite physical tools, and that's the only way to glory.

Except that coaching changes mid season, along with a new system, is exactly how Chicago and LA won their first Cups. Same players, different result. How does that happen again?

Sullivan comes into Pittsburgh, implements a tempo system, and the Pens win the Cup without any major in season play acquisitions.

How'd that happen?

Systems matter and they are different.

No offense, you don't know what you are talking about. There isn't some secret Bylsma system vs. the secret Babcock system. It's checkers, not chess. Every coach in the league knows what every other coach is running and they know how to run them.

As for why different coaches get different results with the same team, it usually is a new voice to respond to and a fresh set of eyes. Minnesota fired Yeo, the new coach came in and ran the exact same system, yet somehow Minneaota caught fire. It happens sometimes. It's almost never system related. Have you ever played organized sports at a high enough level where you were dealing with these types of things? It doesn't sound like it.

 

[Zip15]

He didn't win a Cup with his system

Right, he did nothing but continue Therrien's system that had the Penguins playing at a sub-47% CF%, and they magically turned into a 54%-plus CF% for the remainder of the season. That's the fourth biggest possession improvement of all-time between two coaches coaching at least 20 games for the same team in the same season. Just kept on doing everything that the previous coach was doing, with no differences whatsoever in system play. Mmmhmmm, yep.

 

[stokes84]

Right, he did nothing but continue Therrien's system that had the Penguins playing at a sub-47% CF%, and they magically turned into a 54%-plus CF% for the remainder of the season. That's the fourth biggest possession improvement of all-time between two coaches coaching at least 20 games of the same team in the same season. Just kept on doing everything that the previous coach was doing, with no differences whatsoever in system play. Mmmhmmm, yep.

It happens. As I cited with Minnesota last year. That is exactly what happened.

 

[Jame]

Right, he did nothing but continue Therrien's system that had the Penguins playing at a sub-47% CF%, and they magically turned into a 54%-plus CF% for the remainder of the season. That's the fourth biggest possession improvement of all-time between two coaches coaching at least 20 games for the same team in the same season. Just kept on doing everything that the previous coach was doing, with no differences whatsoever in system play. Mmmhmmm, yep.

It's not really debatable whether Bysma implemented his system, or kept Therrien's. It's a fact. It was Therien's system.

 

[Zip15]

It happens. As I cited with Minnesota last year. That is exactly what happened.

The situations aren't at all analogous.

Under Torchetti, Minnesota's CF%, high-danger scoring chance %, and scoring chance % numbers all got worse than they were under Yeo. In other words, they became a worse possession team and had fewer scoring chances (relative to their opponents) under Torchetti. That's not a recipe for long-term success. They got hot under Torchetti because their shooting% and save% and a big bump for a month or two. They went from a 100.3 PDO under Yeo (effectively luck-neutral) to around a 104 PDO (extremely lucky). I believe the applicable colloquialism would be "dead cat bounce." Pittsburgh, on the other hand, substantially improved their possession metrics under Bylsma vis-a-vis Therrien. Given your stance on analytics, however, I don't expect any of this to resonate with you.

Fletcher, intelligently, recognized the fool's gold, didn't retain Torchetti, and went out and hired a real coach in Boudreau, who has a sustained record of making teams much better possession clubs.

 

[haseoke39]

Byslma will be let go if he doesn't wise up. If you don't feel this in your gut, there is something wrong with your gut.

I'd be shocked if Bylsma was fired. He's only in his second year and the team improved like 27 points in his first year. The critiques we have of him are all extensions of critiques from Pittsburgh -- they should've been baked into the hiring decision. And the team just finished three head coaches in less than three years when he came on board -- he was supposed to be the stable foundation around which young players actually learned the NHL game.

He's got to fail to meet expectations 2 years in a row to get the can. He's got until the end of next season.

 

[Jame]

I'd be shocked if Bylsma was fired. He's only in his second year and the team improved like 27 points in his first year. The critiques we have of him are all extensions of critiques from Pittsburgh -- they should've been baked into the hiring decision. And the team just finished three head coaches in less than three years when he came on board -- he was supposed to be the stable foundation around which young players actually learned the NHL game.

He's got to fail to meet expectations 2 years in a row to get the can. He's got until the end of next season.

It's a mistake to give Bylsma much credit for that increase.

 

[Thorton02]

I'd be shocked if Bylsma was fired. He's only in his second year and the team improved like 27 points in his first year. The critiques we have of him are all extensions of critiques from Pittsburgh -- they should've been baked into the hiring decision. And the team just finished three head coaches in less than three years when he came on board -- he was supposed to be the stable foundation around which young players actually learned the NHL game.

He's got to fail to meet expectations 2 years in a row to get the can. He's got until the end of next season.

I agree Bylsma won't get canned this year. It'll be middle of next year if we're still treading water.

Typically rebuilding teams don't find success with the coach that came in when they were in the cellar. The Pens fired Therien before winning. The Kings fired what ever his name was before bringing in whoseits. Same with Chicago. Same with Tampa, etc.

 

[Zip15]

And the beauty about it bridge jumpers, is the roster is not done being tweaked, added, subtracted and changed. The roster is infinitely better than...



2013-2014 http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BUF/2014.html


2014-2015 http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BUF/2015.html

And will get better.

Byslma will be let go if he doesn't wise up. If you don't feel this in your gut, there is something wrong with your gut.

If Tim is anything like his uncle Bryan, Bylsma probably doesn't make it to the end of next season. Here's the # of regular season games coached by Bryan's Senator coaches:

John Paddock - 64 games
Craig Hartsburg - 48 games
Cory Clouston - 198 games
Paul MacLean - 238 games
Dave Cameron - 137 games

Other than MacLean, none of them have made it three full seasons. (MacLean coached a 48-game season in the lockout-shortened year.) Since Bryan took the helm as GM before the 2007-08 season, Ottawa has missed the playoffs in 4 of his 9 seasons, won a sum total of ONE playoff series, and have never hit 100 points; yet he retained his job for the duration of that period, until he recently stepped aside for Dorion. Bryan has recycled coaches while his teams vacillate between non-playoff teams and fringe playoff clubs with little chance of making any noise.

The lesson: Never underestimate the value being well-liked has on your continued employment. I fully expect Murray to have enough goodwill, and rope, to last through at least one or two more coaches after Bylsma.

 

[haseoke39]

It's a mistake to give Bylsma much credit for that increase.

I'm not saying I do. I'm just saying you can't fire him based on his results. And if you want to fire him based on his system, why the hell was he hired in the first place?

Murray's locked in for a while with this guy.