Cleveland Indians to become the Guardians

[BKIslandersFan]

If you ask Native Americans how they feel about these teams you won't find much bad words said

You talked to Native Americans? Even one?

Right.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The new name should be the Barons, after the various hockey teams that played in Cleveland over the years.

The team should also have a color scheme honoring Cleveland's entire sports history, changing the shade of red used to wine, and adding gold, orange, and brown from the other teams.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

If you ask Native Americans how they feel about these teams you won't find much bad words said

Funny how I guarantee you I know more Native Americans than you and most of them are near-militant in their hatred of their heritage being used as iconography while still actively being oppressed.

Some are fine with it, some hate it, they aren't one bloc of people with a collective voice. This shouldn't need to be said. As long as there are some people who find issue with it and the names remain, there's going to be issues. The slippery slope argument is and always has been bullshit. Nobody is gonna start coming for the Pirates because pirates aren't an oppressed people. Nobody is coming for the Phillies or Yankees because they're not oppressed peoples. Native Americans are.

 

[John Price]

Funny how I guarantee you I know more Native Americans than you and most of them are near-militant in their hatred of their heritage being used as iconography while still actively being oppressed.

Some are fine with it, some hate it, they aren't one bloc of people with a collective voice. This shouldn't need to be said. As long as there are some people who find issue with it and the names remain, there's going to be issues. The slippery slope argument is and always has been bullshit. Nobody is gonna start coming for the Pirates because pirates aren't an oppressed people. Nobody is coming for the Phillies or Yankees because they're not oppressed peoples. Native Americans are.

This is my problem.

If you want to change the name of the Redskins and Indians, that's fine.

Anything other than that is hazy at best. "Because I said so?" It's not just me. It's the notion that marketing NA merchandise is wrong, which is quite an odd opinion to take, as I've said before. Especially when teams do outreach programs like the Blackhawks to help the NA community.

We cannot get swept up in a wave of changing whatever we want. First it was police brutality. Then it became "Anything offensive has got to go, any statues offensive have got to go." Now it is opening up into "Anything that BRANDS as Native American MUST go". To me, as an ardent opponent of cancel culture, this is very disturbing.

 

[John Price]

Braves executives make team’s position clear on name change questions

Fans overwhelmingly support keeping Braves name

 

[Big McLargehuge]

This is my problem.

If you want to change the name of the Redskins and Indians, that's fine.

Anything other than that is hazy at best. "Because I said so?" It's not just me. It's the notion that marketing NA merchandise is wrong, which is quite an odd opinion to take, as I've said before. Especially when teams do outreach programs like the Blackhawks to help the NA community.

We cannot get swept up in a wave of changing whatever we want. First it was police brutality. Then it became "Anything offensive has got to go, any statues offensive have got to go." Now it is opening up into "Anything that BRANDS as Native American MUST go". To me, as an ardent opponent of cancel culture, this is very disturbing.

To me these have been long-standing issues finally coming to the forefront after being shoved under the rug by people like you who don't want to be bothered with the thought that something you like could possibly hurt someone else.

To me, as an ardent opponent of oppression, this is very disturbing. Yikes.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Even thought I'm far from PC I can at least concede on Wahoo, the Indians, the Redskins, even the chop and fan wearing headdresses. But the Chiefs arrowhead and the Braves tomahawk logos shouldn't be removed they're just weapons/tools Natives used. Can't see how they can possibly be offensive? Should we remove the Nuggets pick-axes next? Sabres swords? etc.

But it's also 2020 and I've seen pretty much almost everything be called racist or offensive recently.

 

[John Price]

Even thought I'm far from PC I can at least concede on Wahoo, the Indians, the Redskins, even the chop and fan wearing headdresses. But the Chiefs arrowhead and the Braves tomahawk logos shouldn't be removed they're just weapons/tools Natives used. Can't see how they can possibly be offensive? Should we remove the Nuggets pick-axes next? Sabres swords? etc.

But it's also 2020 and I've seen pretty much almost everything be called racist or offensive recently.

They aren't being banned because they're weapons, it's because you can't profit off Native American imagery, which as I've said before is a ridiculous statement. Besides, most of these teams work with the NA community to help those impoverished people. So while you'll likely see a tomahawk chop ban and attire code, the changing of the names is hopefully not going to happen.

 

[Albatros]

Massacring them is wrong but your excuse of this being "something as trivial as sports" is silly and sounds very, very "progressive" so to speak

Like, why should the Blackhawks give up native imagery. I'm still struggling with that logic. The name isn't offensive, yet it is somehow immoral to market NA imagery because we massacred people and stole they land. Come on. This whole historical guilt or PC "I feel sorry for what happened" well I do too it makes me sad, they basically tricked the Natives and stole their land and put them in shady deals. We should remember that. But that doesn't mean we should give up all Native American imagery. You are aware 1) sports teams are not named after things people disrespect and 2) MANY Native American terms and slang are used as state names and place names...including Illinois

Would you consider the Blackhawks logo an accurate depiction of the Sauk people or Black Hawk the man? The Blackhawks brand may not intend to offend, but it is only an ignorant white caricature regardless.

Concerning the rest, appropriation does not become acceptable just because you have been stealing from the oppressed group already for a long time. If a German sports team would brand itself based on a caricature of Jewish culture without involving any Jews that would cause massive outrage around the world and rightly so.

 

[542365]

This is my problem.

If you want to change the name of the Redskins and Indians, that's fine.

Anything other than that is hazy at best. "Because I said so?" It's not just me. It's the notion that marketing NA merchandise is wrong, which is quite an odd opinion to take, as I've said before. Especially when teams do outreach programs like the Blackhawks to help the NA community.

We cannot get swept up in a wave of changing whatever we want. First it was police brutality. Then it became "Anything offensive has got to go, any statues offensive have got to go." Now it is opening up into "Anything that BRANDS as Native American MUST go". To me, as an ardent opponent of cancel culture, this is very disturbing.

We absolutely CAN and SHOULD get swept up in a wave of changing things that are outright offensive or wrong with our country. These are issues that have been discussed and repressed for decades and we're FINALLY doing something about it. These changes are long overdue.

 

[John Price]

We absolutely CAN and SHOULD get swept up in a wave of changing things that are outright offensive or wrong with our country. These are issues that have been discussed and repressed for decades and we're FINALLY doing something about it. These changes are long overdue.

Name one sports change that was long overdue other than the Redskins or Indians na,me change.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Name one sports change that was long overdue other than the Redskins or Indians na,me change.

Um.

*points to baseball's incredibly racist history literally involving a color barrier*

 

[John Price]

Um.

*points to baseball's incredibly racist history literally involving a color barrier*

That has nothing to do with the conversation.

"These changes" refers to the Indians and Redskins changing their logos and names. What is next? No more Braves?

Why do we have to change any more names after this? Leave the Braves as is and stop the chop. The chop is one of the most offensive things still permissible at a game.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Why do we have to change any more names after this? Leave the Braves as is and stop the chop. The chop is one of the most offensive things still permissible at a game.

Why do you care? Why are you so offended that teams might change the name of their teams? How does that impact your life?

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

I would like the Cleveland Majors - to hold on some semblance to Major League, the greatest baseball movie of all time.

 

[John Price]

Why do you care? Why are you so offended that teams might change the name of their teams? How does that impact your life?

It's the principle of surrendering to the internet "SJW" mob instead of sticking up for yourself and doing what's right. Why should any team be pressured by a bunch of woke idiots into doing things?

"Because it's for the good of society and to be NICE to each other"

Who made ya'll the judge jury and executioner of what is morally and ethically right?

 

[kingsholygrail]

Even thought I'm far from PC I can at least concede on Wahoo, the Indians, the Redskins, even the chop and fan wearing headdresses. But the Chiefs arrowhead and the Braves tomahawk logos shouldn't be removed they're just weapons/tools Natives used. Can't see how they can possibly be offensive? Should we remove the Nuggets pick-axes next? Sabres swords? etc.

But it's also 2020 and I've seen pretty much almost everything be called racist or offensive recently.

How is it any different from headdresses? They're symbolic of native culture.

 

[John Price]

 

[Timeless Winter]

I would like the Cleveland Majors - to hold on some semblance to Major League, the greatest baseball movie of all time.

Cleveland Wild Things?? Lol. I'd go to more games.

 

[The Head Crusher]

Name one sports change that was long overdue other than the Redskins or Indians na,me change.

The numerous implemented health and wellness policies including concussion protocols and drug testing.

but if you are looking for teams who changed their names, logos, and mascots from their racist past, here is a list. This has been going on since the late 60’s.

15 Sports Teams That Dumped Their Racist Mascots (Photos)

 

[Hasbro]

Name one sports change that was long overdue other than the Redskins or Indians na,me change.

“You name me one”

Get ready for the goalpost shift.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

“You name me one”

Get ready for the goalpost shift.

Already happened. No use arguing with someone so frightened of the simple concept of change.

It's not like there haven't been dozens of colleges changing their athletic mascots over the past few decades as precedent, but I doubt Eastern Michigan changing from Hurons to Eagles in the 80s will matter. Dartmouth Indians in 1970, Minnesota State Indians in 1977, Marquette Warriors in 1994, Quinnipiac Braves in 2002, Louisiana-Monroe Indians in 2006, and so many more. Decades of time and dozens of examples. Hell, Syracuse's mascot used to be the 'Saltine Warrior.'

Their history was completely destroyed by becoming the Orange. Hell, if you want to be angry at social justice further, they were the Orangemen and Orangewomen before deciding to ditch the gendered names in 2004. Those weren't even the only change coming out of Syracuse, with the Chiefs changing iconography from Native to flying bat(?) to train before the Mets bought them.

The Reds were the Redlegs during McCartyism...

 

[BKIslandersFan]

It's the principle of surrendering to the internet "SJW" mob instead of sticking up for yourself and doing what's right. Why should any team be pressured by a bunch of woke idiots into doing things?

"Because it's for the good of society and to be NICE to each other"

Who made ya'll the judge jury and executioner of what is morally and ethically right?

You...are essentially saying it should be ok to be racist...

 

[NJDevs26]

The Cleveland baseball team, anyone?

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]