Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[Bondurant]

TIL the name of the midget wrestler whom portrayed Dink the Clown. Fitting for this forum: Claude Giroux

Claude Giroux (wrestler) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[These Are The Days]

Oh dear God. The Katie Vick thing is worse than I thought. Yeah, this is up there with DDP stalking Taker's wife. This better not stay a thing for long. Boo. Boooooo



Also lol that the Un-Americans imploded so quickly. I guess Vince must have decided on the fly that he wanted Jericho as tag champ and the fastest way to do it was HurriKane being transitional champs.

 

[These Are The Days]

No Mercy 2002 is next. Not quite yet done with the Smackdown prior. Guys I'm so happy. October 17, 2002. It's the first time we got a "Cena sucks" chant. He blamed Billy Kidman for losing their tag team tournament match and showed his first hint of arrogance. Be still my beating heart. My new Tribal Chief is coming


Also WWE just had a huge love affair with these family angles didn't they? You got the Katie Vick thing happening with Kane at the same time as this woman from Taker's past. Not to mention that horrible DDP angle. Hell I think DDP is gone for good

Oh well. At least Big Show is finally going to have some direction for like the first time in years starting next week. I don't remember how or even why he jumped to Smackdown but I'm ready for it.

Lol again at how heel Lesnar is acting right now. They are just tripling and quadrupling down on him being this sociopathic scumbag when he's literally going to turn tweener next week. It's hilarious

And it just occurred to me. The sooner Brock loses that belt at Survivor Series, the sooner I can start counting the days to when ***MY*** Olympic Hero will be champion again

 

[Megahab]

Also lol that the Un-Americans imploded so quickly. I guess Vince must have decided on the fly that he wanted Jericho as tag champ and the fastest way to do it was HurriKane being transitional champs.

Un-American were getting over as heels but the sudden break up was punishment because management (I assume McMahon) wanted Test and Christian to cut their long hair but they refused. Funny they both cut their hair anyway a few months later.

 

[These Are The Days]

Un-American were getting over as heels but the sudden break up was punishment because management (I assume McMahon) wanted Test and Christian to cut their long hair but they refused. Funny they both cut their hair anyway a few months later.

*Best Ace Ventura voice* REEEE-HE-HE-HEEEEEALLLLYYYY?? But Christian gets to win the tag titles with long hair Jericho like 2 weeks later? Yeah that definitely sounds like Vince. I completely believe you.

As a group the Un-Americans weren't too bad. They had a lot of potential and I genuinely enjoyed their promos. It was heel work done well. But in hindsight I think that group was only getting as far as Test was carrying it and Test unfortunately is a guy who enjoyed like 5 solid pushes and never connected with anyone. If a guy like Billy Gunn had even a fraction of the support Test did backstage I think he'd have been a borderline main eventer. He got fed to the Rock after winning KOTR and that was it

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm also torn on if the Un-Americans should have burned the American flag. They teased it enough times. It's not that flag burning doesn't bother me. But lets say Test lights up Old Glory in a field somewhere in the sticks and no one gets hurt. Now compare the decision of the man who killed my dad in a car accident drinking 5 times the legal limit. It sucks but I can deal with it. It's the dark side of free speech that you have to deal with. For better or worse it would have been an "all time" moment. But it's better they didn't because Americans can get veeerrrryyyy touchy about the flag and it wouldn't have been worth the headache Vince would probably still be dealing with in 2023. There would have been endless death threats to the Un-Americans

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm also torn on if the Un-Americans should have burned the American flag. They teased it enough times. It's not that flag burning doesn't bother me. But lets say Test lights up Old Glory in a field somewhere in the sticks and no one gets hurt. Now compare the decision of the man who killed my dad in a car accident drinking 5 times the legal limit. It sucks but I can deal with it. It's the dark side of free speech that you have to deal with. For better or worse it would have been an "all time" moment. But it's better they didn't because Americans can get veeerrrryyyy touchy about the flag and it wouldn't have been worth the headache Vince would probably still be dealing with in 2023. There would have been endless death threats to the Un-Americans

In a vacuum, yeah. But in the atmosphere of 2002 with the Twin Towers still a smoking hole in the ground? There's no way they could've gotten away with that. It would've legitimately put guys physical safety at risk

 

[These Are The Days]

In a vacuum, yeah. But in the atmosphere of 2002 with the Twin Towers still a smoking hole in the ground? There's no way they could've gotten away with that. It would've legitimately put guys physical safety at risk

They proposed the same thing to Sgt Slaughter in his feud with Hogan in the Gulf War. Vince is crazy. I'd bet a drink of your choice people would still be going on about it if either Slaughter or the Un-Americans went through with it

 

[JackSlater]

In a vacuum, yeah. But in the atmosphere of 2002 with the Twin Towers still a smoking hole in the ground? There's no way they could've gotten away with that. It would've legitimately put guys physical safety at risk

That's pretty much it, it would have been legitimately dangerous. It's one of the few times a WWE crowd might have actually gone to that level.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm watching No Mercy 2002 in its entirety for the first time now. A few thoughts so far

I know Raw had 4 titles at the time compared to Smackdown's 2 (until the tag titles came about) but retiring the IC title to make 3 titles per show may be the stupidest thing they could have done. I had no idea they did this. I was 13 and we didn't have cable til 2006 so Raw was out the window for me. This is going to backfire in the biggest possible way because they already killed every other title in existence. I guess I know why Smackdown got the US title eventually but I don't remember when it came about anymore. I have to imagine it comes back once Mania 19 is over.

Thank you God. Big Show is pissed and gonna do something about it for once. My question on how he got to Smackdown is quickly being answered

Unrelated: after all this time I think I understand now what WWE was trying to do with Nowinski's Harvard gimmick. It's basically repackaging Kurt Angle but the guy has a fraction of the talent.

Nidia and Noble's trailer park trash gimmick is finally hilarious. It's won me over. I didn't pay attention to them in 2002 and I am crossing my fingers hoping about every other week they have these enormous toxic fights over random BS and it's like "break up already" only to have an even more toxic make up.

Torrie Wilson faking Matt Hardy into a stinkface only for Rikishi to give it to him anyway was genuinely funny

I don't have words for how pissed off I would be to have to sit directly in front of the Raw stage with the pyro going off 5 feet away from me loud as hell every 10 minutes. JR and King are troopers for dealing with that crap

 

[These Are The Days]

*incoherent screaming intensifies*

Angle, Edge! w0[ut w0[egjdpojfads[0t8wu!

MYSTERIO! BENOIT!!! Nurmagubbaplatmawamahuba!!!!

800 star match!!!

weu]25ntq2tq3t9e-vomaspidfonhpfe hn[\\
\4


0ewrdgetyq3 4 t



w



JESUS CHRIST WHAT A MATCH!


800 bazillion stars! MY HERO GOT ALONG WITH SOMEONE HE HATES AND WON THE TAG TITLES! I'M SO HAPPY!

 

[Bondurant]

The aisle to the ring on Saturday Night's Main Event is shockingly tight and close to the crowd. Security is often forceful with fans to keep them off the wrestlers. Cyndi Lauper had to hold onto her hat the entire way to the ring and I think someone copped a feel on her.

 

[BruinDust]

I'm watching No Mercy 2002 in its entirety for the first time now. A few thoughts so far

I know Raw had 4 titles at the time compared to Smackdown's 2 (until the tag titles came about) but retiring the IC title to make 3 titles per show may be the stupidest thing they could have done. I had no idea they did this.

Merging the IC/Hardcore/Euro titles into the new WHC made sense at the time. Gave that title credibility.

And adding a new world title inevitably devalues the secondary titles. It's just the nature of the beast. There will ALWAYS be a pecking order when it comes to titles and they will never have two world titles that are considered to be on the same level, even if the WWE desires such. In the fans mind, one world title will always be perceived as more valuable than the other.

We are seeing it right now. The US and IC titles were elevated once HHH took over creative. But with the addition of the new WHC, those two titles have lost a bit of luster, in particular the IC where Gunther seems less important on Raw with a larger roster than he did on SD. Theory went from defending the US at WM and now can't even get on the SS card.

IMO, the new WHC is basically what the IC title was back in it's hey-day when WWE/WWF ran two towns a night, and the IC champ would headline one of the two towns. Even the way they call it the "workhorse title" harkens back to the IC belt of the 80s and 90s.

With a Universal Champ, WHC, and NXT champ, I'd argue they don't even need the US, IC and NA titles with everyone crossing over brands on a weekly basis. Do they really need 6 men's titles across 3 brands?

 

[Bondurant]

Dave Hebner was a bump machine during Savage v Roberts on Saturday Night's Main Event VIII.

 

[These Are The Days]

I didn't think anything could top Vince McMahon doing surgery and "pulling JR's head out of his ass" with "Nurse Naughty" or whatever she was and the adventures of Tim White unsuccessfully committing suicide every week. This nonsense with HHH impersonating Kane doing it with Katie Vick's corpse might actually be worse. I am so ready for this feud to be over

 

[These Are The Days]

I spoke too soon. Smackdown! pulls off some of the most memorable content in its history with Big Show murdering Undertaker and meanwhile on Raw I gotta watch a skit with HHH and the Katie Vick mannequin and as I try to skip it I see the segment go on EVEN LONGER to then see a mock surgery where HHH gets his head pulled out of his ass. Vince literally signed off on doing that twice. And this is also with lolHHHwins. I don't know how much longer I can keep trusting the process. Raw has literally pillaged what talent it still had left in Big Show to finish making the show a feeder system for HHH. It's literally working like this

Raw Main Event wrestlers: HHH























Everyone else




This probably wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't being subjected to so many crummy skits. Thank God for Smackdown! right now because Raw is turning into a chore. It's not a wonder why they had superior ratings


Edit: And now Test fans are called "testicles"


Holy shit. As if being a fan of Test wasn't rare or miserable enough. Jesus Christ. They just buried this guy

 

[These Are The Days]

I can't take King anymore with his semen nonsense. I muted Kane's casket match with HHH and it allowed me to notice something I think I always noticed but didn't fully appreciate. It is crazy how safe a worker Kane is. For character who utilizes so much power and brawling, it is remarkable how consistent he is. Guys will get sloppy when they speed up and he never ever does. For as great as guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Angle, Taker and Benoit were, they all had matches where I know they beat the shit out of some of their opponents but not enough to genuinely hurt them. They're the guys who made you sore and you made them sore. I have to imagine at some point guys just said "Oh thank God" if they knew they were having a match with Kane because it was going to be an easy night, a great match and he would handle you like a basket of eggs.

Honorable mention to Chris Jericho and ironically Mick Foley here because of how genuinely dangerous the stuff he did was.

 

[These Are The Days]

Just under 2 weeks away from Survivor Series 2002. I knew Cena wasn't getting over as a be-a-pro Ruthless Aggression gimmick but I had no idea until a few days ago he was going to be outright fired until Stephanie heard him rapping with Rikishi and Mysterio in the back of a bus. Test can survive 3 years of deafening silence every time he comes out. X-Pac can have years of fans booing him out of the building but this poor SOB was going to get his walking papers after like 4 months and about a week of X-Pac heat. Unbelievable dude.

He's got a match with Rikishi now and his heel pop coming out was fantastic. I'll watch after work


Edit: actually Rocky Miavia is probably a better comparison. Milquetoast and no one cares

 

[These Are The Days]

Also thank God Big Show is being used seriously. I cannot appreciate his path of destruction more

 

[Unholy Diver]

I've continued my 1998 WWE watch into 99, and just witnessed the arrival of Paul Wight at the St Valentines Day Massacre show, didn't see who it was but one of the refs, maybe Chioda? got clobbered by the cage when Wight tossed Austin thru the cage wall

 

[CDJ]

2003 smackdown. Sable has XPac heat with me

 

[Grackle Party]

Thinking about doing a watch through of all the terrible WCW I never saw from 99 to the end. I need to figure out when I stopped watching I think it was probably summer of 99.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Thinking about doing a watch through of all the terrible WCW I never saw from 99 to the end. I need to figure out when I stopped watching I think it was probably summer of 99.

When I first started getting into wrestling say around 96/97 I was definitely all WCW, think I started watching both sometime around/after Mania XIV and then WWF became my show of choice by mid 99 even if I still did watch both.

I remember a lot less from 2000 WCW but I definitely still peeked at it and had some of the video games (I remember the new logo on the cover of Mayhem). I honestly can not remember anything from the 3 months it existed in 2001 other than the final Ntiro.

 

[These Are The Days]

I haven't been as diligent as I should be with my watch through but I'm taking a moment to say this. I'm getting dangerously close on being burned out on HHH pontificating 10 minutes a night and basically winning no matter what. But I am in a rare form of sympathy knowing his feud with Scott Steiner has to be imminent. Like within the next 2/3 months post Survivor Series. I don't know what is gonna happen with HBK yet but I figure either a program with him or Steiner is next.

I can't stand his character but God bless Paul Levasque for doing a program with Scott. I never saw the feud but I take one look at this guy and already know how he is dangerous in the ring. Unless he's bench pressing and ripping curls in the gym he's useless. Paul Levasque should have probably had his career ended by an exploded quad and is gonna have to get in the ring with a glorified body builder with no cardiovascular endurance to go with his strength. I pity anyone who has to polish that turd. I am almost scared for Paul Levasque's sake to watch their matches because I know they were so bad they were booed out of the building. I've laughed myself stupid at YouTube's SteinerMania botch complications and poor HHH is at the brunt of so many unsafe moments.

Like it's not a wonder they did arm wrestling and body builder segments. They needed SOMETHING Scott could do. And safely. I am actively praying for The Game here to not get killed by the Incredible Bulk. I'm preparing for this the same way I prepare myself to watch footage of natural disasters knowing people could be getting hurt or worse.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Merging the IC/Hardcore/Euro titles into the new WHC made sense at the time. Gave that title credibility.

And adding a new world title inevitably devalues the secondary titles. It's just the nature of the beast. There will ALWAYS be a pecking order when it comes to titles and they will never have two world titles that are considered to be on the same level, even if the WWE desires such. In the fans mind, one world title will always be perceived as more valuable than the other.

We are seeing it right now. The US and IC titles were elevated once HHH took over creative. But with the addition of the new WHC, those two titles have lost a bit of luster, in particular the IC where Gunther seems less important on Raw with a larger roster than he did on SD. Theory went from defending the US at WM and now can't even get on the SS card.

IMO, the new WHC is basically what the IC title was back in it's hey-day when WWE/WWF ran two towns a night, and the IC champ would headline one of the two towns. Even the way they call it the "workhorse title" harkens back to the IC belt of the 80s and 90s.

With a Universal Champ, WHC, and NXT champ, I'd argue they don't even need the US, IC and NA titles with everyone crossing over brands on a weekly basis. Do they really need 6 men's titles across 3 brands?

That's six shiny giant logo belts so the answer really is that they'll need to find a way to go from 6-8 of them asap.