Confirmed with Link: Clarkson/Horton trade pt 2
- Thread starter Warden of the North
- Start date
The Value of Horton's contract? Bobcat's idea.
Just heard Bobcat talking about this. Brilliant idea on his part.
Horton's contract is extremely valuable. Before I explain remember how LTIR contracts work. They count against your cap while you are under the cap. However, if you go to the cap, you are allowed to spend over the cap by the amount of Horton's contract (while he's on LTIR).
The Leafs are not going to be a cap team during their rebuild. Essentially, and because they don't need the cap space, the Clarkson deal means nothing if not to give them room to move Kessel, Dion, etc.
The Leafs now own 5.7m in cap relief, even though they aren't using it. They can do with Horton's contract whatever they want to.
What is to stop the Leafs from flipping Horton's contract to Chicago, or Boston, or NY, ANY cap team, in exchange for picks and prospects?
Essentially, if you own Horton's contract, you can overspend the cap by the amount of his contract. So for a team like Chicago that contract becomes insanely valuable. Essentially they will be trading for their own players they will have to trade to get under the cap next season.
My question is this, what do you see teams paying for the 6 mil in cap relief? Because I truly think the Leafs have an opportunity here to really turn Clarkson into something very worthwhile.
Thoughts?
Just heard Bobcat talking about this. Brilliant idea on his part.
Horton's contract is extremely valuable. Before I explain remember how LTIR contracts work. They count against your cap while you are under the cap. However, if you go to the cap, you are allowed to spend over the cap by the amount of Horton's contract (while he's on LTIR).
The Leafs are not going to be a cap team during their rebuild. Essentially, and because they don't need the cap space, the Clarkson deal means nothing if not to give them room to move Kessel, Dion, etc.
The Leafs now own 5.7m in cap relief, even though they aren't using it. They can do with Horton's contract whatever they want to.
What is to stop the Leafs from flipping Horton's contract to Chicago, or Boston, or NY, ANY cap team, in exchange for picks and prospects?
Essentially, if you own Horton's contract, you can overspend the cap by the amount of his contract. So for a team like Chicago that contract becomes insanely valuable. Essentially they will be trading for their own players they will have to trade to get under the cap next season.
My question is this, what do you see teams paying for the 6 mil in cap relief? Because I truly think the Leafs have an opportunity here to really turn Clarkson into something very worthwhile.
Thoughts?
Ed Belfour
Registered User
I agree with you to a point here, but the only difference there is that Lowry is an elite player who knows he is playing like garbage compared to the high level he knows he is capable of playing. He can be honest and frustrated to the media openly because he knows that at some point his play will rebound back up to that level.
Clarkson, on the other hand, knows that he's not that good. He is certainly better than he has looked here, but he's not a skilled NHL player. He knows that, it's not like he expects to go out there and score 40 goals. To be playing poorly and knowing that your normal play isn't much better must be almost unbearable when you're getting crapped on in the media daily.
What I think went wrong is that he just underestimated the amount of focus and criticism his contract would get. I honestly think he expected to be welcomed by Leaf fans as a good, hard-working, hometown boy through thick and thin. "Hey he kinda looks like Wendel out there, similar number and everything!" Only that never took place. I really don't think he ever expected fans to harp on his cap hit so much, and that threw his game off completely. Now suddenly he has to go out there and earn this huge contract for the fans by scoring goals and being a skilled player. He's not even close to a skilled player, but he impacted the game in other ways. He wasn't great, but he was useful.
When he felt that pressure to produce like a $5.25M player, it messed him right up. What's he going to say to the media after that...sorry? I really wanted to play here and they offered me a lot of money...sorry I'm not more talented? Not much he can do. Trust me I'm the farthest thing from a Clarkson fan and I'm so happy we got rid of him, just don't like people going after him. He's a good dude, just not a great scorer.
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
LTIR relief only kicks in when you need it. Meaning if we're not at the cap we dont get it, but if we need it we can exceed the cap.
I dont quite get your connection between the cap and rebuilding. You can be rebuilding at any number within the allowable limits (cap floor and ceiling).
I was JUST about to post this. Horton has an extremely valuable contract that we can trade to other rich teams to get rid of their cap problems.
I don't know if the league will like Horton being passed around like a ball to different teams around the league though.
I don't know if the league will like Horton being passed around like a ball to different teams around the league though.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
- 70,213
- 9,192
you could technically trade Kessel + Horton, and using Horton's caphit to offset a good chunk of Kessel's contract
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
Horton for Bickell++ makes sense.
It counts ~1.3M more in the offseason and goes away as soon as the season starts.
No need to trade any of their D or Sharp and they can actually use 5.3M to get someone else.
Peasy
Registered User
What are you guys talking about... If youre 5.3m or more under the cap, he counts against the cap. Say your team cap is at 55m, Horton's contract is going to count against your cap. This is most likely so a team could make the cap floor if theyre having trouble. Now, if the rest of the roster (not including Horton) ends up going within 5.3m of the max cap space, THEN he is played onto the LTIR and we gain the cap relief. We only gain it if we need it. Theres no magical "6m" of cap space on top of what the cap current is when you have Horton on the LTIR...
If Chicago trades picks/prospects for this contract, they are still at the cap. The extra spending that you are talking about is spending money on Horton's contract. The only cap relief this contract provides is for the contract itself. This contract does not miraculously create new cap space if traded for.
Say the max cap is 60M. Chicago is at 60m, trade Bickell to us for Horton.
Now they are at 56M without Horton. Doesn't Horton's LTIR kick in? If it does, then they now have 4M of cap space to use wherever they like.
Peasy
Registered User
Yeah, they get that 4m\ cap space from trading a player that is currently on their roster
. Theyre not getting an extra said 4m+Horton's cap hit like the OP was originally stating. Boston and Philly have been doing this the past few years with Pronger and Savard, two other players that will never play a game again, its not like they get more cap space than any other team (technically they do if you include the person on the LTIR, but you shouldnt/cant because theyre not playing, if any of them were to return, then they would have to fit them under the cap).What you proposed it nothing more than a regular cap dump trade... Columbus did this trade with us not from a cap space perspective, but purely from an actual $$$$$ standpoint, theyre not a cap space team, they have an internal budget. Horton was contributing towards their internal budget as they didnt have him insured.
Like your proposed trade is no different from the leafs giving up a 7th rounder, or some AHL scrub.
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Exactly, but Toronto doesn't need it. They might not need it for 3 years while they rebuild. A team at the cap right this second, will acquire Horton's contract, he will immediately go on LTIR, and his owner is allowed to overspend by his value.
disgruntleddave
Registered User
Guys, horton doesn't give anyone cap relief above his own contract.
Some of the comments above seem to imply that we get 5.3m of "cap relief", as if horton never applies to the cap (so we spend to the cap on players not including horton), and then just because we have horton, we get to spend 5.3m above the cap.
The cap relief offsets horton's salary only, and only during the season. It doesn't give teams an extra magical relief so their playing roster exceeds the cap. Trading horton to another team doesn't magically give them an extra 5.3m to spend. The relief still lets you spend to the cap not including horton. That's all. Active roster = to the cap.
Some of the comments above seem to imply that we get 5.3m of "cap relief", as if horton never applies to the cap (so we spend to the cap on players not including horton), and then just because we have horton, we get to spend 5.3m above the cap.
The cap relief offsets horton's salary only, and only during the season. It doesn't give teams an extra magical relief so their playing roster exceeds the cap. Trading horton to another team doesn't magically give them an extra 5.3m to spend. The relief still lets you spend to the cap not including horton. That's all. Active roster = to the cap.
Larcos_Unal
Excuses are for losers
Divine
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2010
- 18,604
- 12,456
Clarkson's contract counted towards the Cap both in the summer and during the regular season!
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