Traded Christian Wolanin (D)

[Sweatred]

I'm not sure what he's done to even be considered better than Wideman at the same age.

I'm not trying to come across as a hater, cause I actually like the player, but rarely have I seen someone get this much hype/leeway based on 1 season of "pretty good" play. I think this guy has just as much of a chance at being a bottom pairing guy moving forward as he does to play higher in the lineup. He's still a no-doubt NHLer unless the injury REALLY set him back, but I don't see the upside that a lot of you do.

Totally agree. Last I checked he played about 30 games in the NHL in 18-19.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not sure what he's done to even be considered better than Wideman at the same age.

I'm not trying to come across as a hater, cause I actually like the player, but rarely have I seen someone get this much hype/leeway based on 1 season of "pretty good" play. I think this guy has just as much of a chance at being a bottom pairing guy moving forward as he does to play higher in the lineup. He's still a no-doubt NHLer unless the injury REALLY set him back, but I don't see the upside that a lot of you do.

What had Wideman accomplished at the same age? He didn't play a single NHL game till he was 2 months from turning 26 and when he did it was all highly sheltered mins.

 

[stempniaksen]

What had Wideman accomplished at the same age? He didn't play a single NHL game till he was 2 months from turning 26 and when he did it was all highly sheltered mins.

Must have mathed wrong. Thought he was 24/25 his first season with the Senators.

There's a (relatively easy, imo) case to be made Wideman had the better NCAA and AHL career. At worst he was coming off of AHL defenceman of the year, which isn't anything to sneeze at.

This isn't to say Wolanin is tapped out the way Wideman was, it's clear who has the higher potential of the two. I just don't think Wolanin's resume is particularly impressive at this point in his career. If he can come back strong next season and replicate his offensive numbers I'll be more than happy to eat crow, I'm just not convinced the opportunity will be there the way it would have been this season.

 

[Clayonator]

I'm not sure what he's done to even be considered better than Wideman at the same age.

I'm not trying to come across as a hater, cause I actually like the player, but rarely have I seen someone get this much hype/leeway based on 1 season of "pretty good" play. I think this guy has just as much of a chance at being a bottom pairing guy moving forward as he does to play higher in the lineup. He's still a no-doubt NHLer unless the injury REALLY set him back, but I don't see the upside that a lot of you do.

Not as proven, but he has better tools, as well as a tool box.

 

[OD99]

To me his confidence is a huge attribute.

He came out of college and played his same game at the NHL level (relatively speaking). He didn't just fire it off the glass, he wanted to contribute by making impactful plays and he had skill to do it.

He transitions well and jumps in deep while controlling the puck.

My vote is that he has a big impact in the A then proves his supporters right next season.

 

[jbeck5]

He has a long way to go before is he a NHL regular dman. Lots of players have late breakouts but more players fizzle away and never cement themselves as NHL regulars. Lets hope he can put together a few solid years. He has shown some creativity and skill but calling Wolanin's skill and creativity elite is a gross exaggeration. He has 15 career pts in 40 NHL games.

30 point pace as a rookie and only improving?

It doesn't prove elite, but it doesn't prove not elite.

I'm pretty sure that's more points than Karlsson had in his first 40 games. Obviously Karlsson was a rookie at a younger age, but not everyone develops early.

 

[jbeck5]

People think wolanin is small? He looks almost like Chabot in terms of size, and no one says Chabot is small.

 

[jbeck5]

How do you find him redundant on this D core? They have no one to run the second PP and are about to lose 3 of their top 6 d men as UFA's.

No player is redundant until we're actually good.

Have you seen our pp? We have to improve a shyte ton before he becomes redundant..

Maybe when we have 3-4 defenseman that are hitting 30+ points , we can call him redundant. Right now we only have Chabot. We're 2-3 better defenseman away from having him be redundant. Lassi Thompson and Bernard docker are the only 2 shoe ins for the future and guys like Rielly, hainsey, goloubef, etc will all be gone soon.

 

[Sweatred]

30 point pace as a rookie and only improving?

It doesn't prove elite, but it doesn't prove not elite.

I'm pretty sure that's more points than Karlsson had in his first 40 games. Obviously Karlsson was a rookie at a younger age, but not everyone develops early.

You could say that about any player.... he’s got a long way to go to establish himself and his next contract will probably have to deal with UFA years if we plan on keeping him.

I think he is a good candidate to pump and dump if he puts up a good year or two. We recycled assets in MD and MS we can certainly consider recycling CW. Maybe we selling high on an offensive dman with a low cap hit at the 2022 TDL as JBD and TL are starting with us.

 

[Micklebot]

You could say that about any player.... he’s got a long way to go to establish himself and his next contract will probably have to deal with UFA years if we plan on keeping him.

I think he is a good candidate to pump and dump if he puts up a good year or two. We recycled assets in MD and MS we can certainly consider recycling CW. Maybe we selling high on an offensive dman with a low cap hit at the 2022 TDL as JBD and TL are starting with us.

Who is TL? Assuming you mean Thomson?

Anyways, Wolanin is a LD, JBD and Thomson both are right D. I think the question on Wolanin boils down to which side Brannstrom ends up playing, if he ends up a RD, than keeping Wolanin may make sense. If he turns out to be a LD, Wolanin could become expendable.

In the end, it's a good problem to have; if Wolanin is indeed a top 4 quality offensive dman, and things work out with Brannstrom, Thomson, and JBD, we're going to be able to get some assets back to fill a hole somewhere else, but in the mean time, we have a bunch of quality prospects that need to realize their potential before we start worrying about moving guys to make some room.

 

[Sweatred]

Who is TL? Assuming you mean Thomson?

Anyways, Wolanin is a LD, JBD and Thomson both are right D. I think the question on Wolanin boils down to which side Brannstrom ends up playing, if he ends up a RD, than keeping Wolanin may make sense. If he turns out to be a LD, Wolanin could become expendable.

In the end, it's a good problem to have; if Wolanin is indeed a top 4 quality offensive dman, and things work out with Brannstrom, Thomson, and JBD, we're going to be able to get some assets back to fill a hole somewhere else, but in the mean time, we have a bunch of quality prospects that need to realize their potential before we start worrying about moving guys to make some room.

Ya - I don’t disagree with any of that. I also see a likely chance that CW contract expires at the end of next year and he will want term and commitment off a potential decent year blurred by a bad team . At some point we have to acquire a shut down dman and we have lots of puck moving prospects. Do we consider moving him ? LT, JBD etc ? By 2021 CW is the most expensive of that group.

I’m worried CW’s contract may play out similar to our other CW where we invest heavily in an unknown player.

I think Wolanin is 1 year away from UFA at the end of next year.

 

[Micklebot]

Ya - I don’t disagree with any of that. I also see a likely chance that CW contract expires at the end of next year and he will want term and commitment off a potential decent year blurred by a bad team . At some point we have to acquire a shut down dman and we have lots of puck moving prospects. Do we consider moving him ? LT, JBD etc ? By 2021 CW is the most expensive of that group.

I’m worried CW’s contract may play out similar to our other CW where we invest heavily in an unknown player.

I think Wolanin is 1 year away from UFA at the end of next year.

Is there any contract you won't compare to Colin White... good grief.

Anyways, wrt Wolanin, the one silver lining for us is that his injury means he won't have leverage when negotiating his next contract. We'll qualify him after next season, and can offer him a short 2 or 3 year prove it contract afterwards and decide when he reaches UFA whether to trade him off as a rental or re-sign him at that point.

 

[Sweatred]

Is there any contract you won't compare to Colin White... good grief.

Anyways, wrt Wolanin, the one silver lining for us is that his injury means he won't have leverage when negotiating his next contract. We'll qualify him after next season, and can offer him a short 2 or 3 year prove it contract afterwards and decide when he reaches UFA whether to trade him off as a rental or re-sign him at that point.

Absolutely - I’m happy to pay deserved players who are effective on the ice. I like Brown21 but don’t want to give him $26 yet. Rolling the dice on Wolanin would be risky and we can’t miss too many times. He will be the same age as Pager is now and people are worried about his age and productivity going forward. This board has started throwing around words like “elite” for Wolanin and that is scary. Oddly enough it is the same posters who called White’s skill elite.

My point is I see the Wolanin contract being tricky. Next year won’t prove much and theoretically he will be past his prime. As a US UFA buying out his tax free haven or dream city could be expensive. He may have more value as a trade chip while we focus on LT and JBD etc.

Maybe we buy out his last RFA year or something, I just don’t see him as a piece going forward.

 

[ATdaisuki]

Must have mathed wrong. Thought he was 24/25 his first season with the Senators.

There's a (relatively easy, imo) case to be made Wideman had the better NCAA and AHL career. At worst he was coming off of AHL defenceman of the year, which isn't anything to sneeze at.

This isn't to say Wolanin is tapped out the way Wideman was, it's clear who has the higher potential of the two. I just don't think Wolanin's resume is particularly impressive at this point in his career. If he can come back strong next season and replicate his offensive numbers I'll be more than happy to eat crow, I'm just not convinced the opportunity will be there the way it would have been this season.

here's a post i made in the other wolanin thread. is has a bit of comparison between wideman and wolanin at similar ages/seasons of experience/team quality. it's very basic and only looks at points and points per game.

wolanin has already shown that he skates and carries the puck better than wideman ever did at the nhl level. some of the games he played when chabot was out near the end of the year were insane. the he was a big part of bellville's huge february and most people watching the games would say he looked too good for that league. there is a lot of projecting and guesswork when signing a relatively unproven player to a longer term deal and i'm very, VERY confident that gambling on wolanin will pay off. he'll be our second best defenseman next season unless brannstrom explodes into the league and plays like a legit #2 and it won't be just because our defense sucks. the guy has a big shot, big frame, great skating, good passing, good vision and a lot of confidence.

if you don't want to take into account my scouting ability (i do like to think i don't have a terrible track record, but i'm definitely not even close to perfect) wolanin scored at a 0.4 point a game pace in the nhl as a 23 year old (turned 24 in mid march) with 12 points in 30 games in his first nhl season. wideman debuted as a 25 year old and put up 13 in 64 for a 0.2 ppg pace. he then went on to score 17 in 76 (0.22), 8 in 16 (0.5), and 7 in 25 (0.28). in wideman's rookie ahl season (22/23 years old, birthday is jan 7th), he scored 18 in 60 games, granted this was on a much lower scoring team than wolanin played on this season, so let's look at wideman's next season to get them closer in age and team quality. in wideman's second season, he scored 51 in 73 games for a ppg of ~0.7. he was 4th in team scoring, but 6th if we take pace into account (pageau and stone finished with fewer points and games played due to callups, but had higher ppg). wolanin scored 31 in 40 games for a ppg of 0.755. if we look at pace, wolanin finishes 5th in team scoring. the sample size on wolanin's season is much smaller, but the eye test shows that he was a leader on that team on the ice and a monster with the puck on his stick.

i'm excited about wolanin. i think he'll be a top 4 guy next season and a top three caliber defenseman if he can round out his defensive game. he has a ton of tools and i can't wait to see if he can put a complete game together. wideman doesn't have to tools wolanin does, wolanin's stats look better at the same ages/leagues, and wolanin looks better to the eye test.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Sweatred]

It will be interesting to see how/where he slots in with Brann/Laj/Jaros.

After a few games it would be nice if he was ahead of these guys .

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

It will be interesting to see how/where he slots in with Brann/Laj/Jaros.

After a few games it would be nice if he was ahead of these guys .

Doubtful, but it would be good to see him excel at his game.

 

[Sweatred]

Doubtful, but it would be good to see him excel at his game.

I agree - I think the board hive is far to aggressive on CW’s eval.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I agree - I think the board hive is far to aggressive on CW’s eval.

He is going to take a while to get back to his game.

Next season, he should be back to his game... or like many Sens prospects of the past he could never skate the same way again.

I hope it is not that way. I hope we actually get lucky for once

 

[Sweatred]

He is going to take a while to get back to his game.

Next season, he should be back to his game... or like many Sens prospects of the past he could never skate the same way again.

I hope it is not that way. I hope we actually get lucky for once

Ya ... I didn’t think his game showed much than some optimistic potential to begin with.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Ya ... I didn’t think his game showed much than some optimistic potential to begin with.

I thought his game showed a ton of potential. He was making smart plays all over the ice last year at the end of the season and has dominated the AHL.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I thought his game showed a ton of potential. He was making smart plays all over the ice last year at the end of the season and has dominated the AHL.

Agreed. It helps to have watched him and have some clue at what you are looking at.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It was his play with the big club that swung the tide for me. He looked real smart out there to me and had the skill required.

I expect him to have a big role next year.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[HSF]

He is gonna be solid